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Italy delivering surplus self-propelled howitzers to Pakistan Army

I can't believe you guys just said that.
With the upgrade to a level of 1A6 level it would definitely be equal to the T-90's that the Russians wants to sell Pakistan. There can be some more upgrades available through Turkey as well specially after what Turkey faced in Syria.

some PUMAS were bought last year may be for FC.
May be then FC with their limited budget be interested as no doubt these are quite capable for the western terrain.
 
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Haha why ? It's just a wish.
M-198 can fire a projectile like an ATGM, its a laser guided projectile (copperhead) which hits tops of tanks and smokes them. The FOO(forward observation officer) lases the target, M-198 fires from more than 20 km away and the projectile is guided to hit enemy tanks.

This comes useful during pakistan infantry vs Indian Tank scenario.

With the upgrade to a level of 1A6 level it would definitely be equal to the T-90's that the Russians wants to sell Pakistan. There can be some more upgrades available through Turkey as well specially after what Turkey faced in Syria.
Now im not disagreeing with you - but PA wont go for it.
 
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This comes useful during pakistan infantry vs Indian Tank scenario.
We know that in the past this did come up in certain places moreover PA was out numbered yet they managed to arrest the march. Reasons were that PA had to constantly change gun positions so that the Indians were not able to identify the exact position.

Today it would be very difficult to do with towed M-198 however if they are self propelled then its another ball game.
 
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We know that in the past this did come up in certain places moreover PA was out numbered yet they managed to arrest the march. Reasons were that PA had to constantly change gun positions so that the Indians were not able to identify the exact position.

Today it would be very difficult to do with towed M-198 however if they are self propelled then its another ball game.
Infantry is supported by towed guns since infantry digs in and has to hold position and defend it. So infantry is static thus SPGs are assigned to Mechanised and armored forces. Operating SPG's is much more costly than towed guns. Fuel and maintenance, just like Tanks and APC's. Its interesting to note that Artillery consumes more rounds than Tanks in combat, thus needs more supplies than tanks.

There are many ways to conceal towed artillery from enemy.
 
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M-777 is an excellent weapon, can be lifted by heli. Which Heli in PA will lift M-777 or AH-4. IA has such helis (Mi-26 and CH-47).
Mi-8MTV-5 a.k.a Mi-17V-5 is capable of lifting 4500 kg load using sling.

There are many ways to conceal towed artillery from enemy.
I won't bank on this citing new CB radars,UAV's and Sats.
System like G-6 are better,though costly.
 
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some PUMAS were bought last year may be for FC.

Isnt the PUMA being used by Pakistani UN peacekeepers
 
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Mi-8MTV-5 a.k.a Mi-17V-5 is capable of lifting 4500 kg load using sling.
I hope PA spares Mi-17 for lifting Artillery while achieving desired altitude with sling or weight, highly doubtful though that Mi-17 will be shifted way up north for such Ops..
I won't bank on this citing new CB radars,UAV's and Sats.
System like G-6 are better,though costly.
Thats alright, disagreement gives rise to discussions.
 
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I hope PA spares Mi-17 for lifting Artillery while achieving desired altitude with sling or weight, highly doubtful though that Mi-17 will be shifted way up north for such Ops..

Thats alright, disagreement gives rise to discussions.
Bell 412 and 212 are also available hence if PAA decided to procure these then US would not be very difficult. Moreover PAA must also standardise because at present they are operating what ever they can find which is a nightmare in terms of maintenance.
 
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hope PA spares Mi-17 for lifting Artillery while achieving desired altitude with sling or weight, highly doubtful though that Mi-17 will be shifted way up north for such Ops..
In war time they won't Mi's are already stretched alot even in peace time.We need more helos like Mi-17.Pumas are already ageing and many airframes are going through their end days.
May be we should go for chinese option.

Bell 412 and 212 are also available hence if PAA decided to procure these then US would not be very difficult. Moreover PAA must also standardise because at present they are operating what ever they can find which is a nightmare in terms of maintenance.
Bell 412 and 212 are good for SAR,Medevac,Emergency resupply,VIP Transport and SoF insertion but can't be deployed like Mi's.
 
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I hope PA spares Mi-17 for lifting Artillery while achieving desired altitude with sling or weight, highly doubtful though that Mi-17 will be shifted way up north for such Ops..

Thats alright, disagreement gives rise to discussions.

Many years ago when I was in pindi, I occasionally saw them slinging RR carrying jeeps.

Don't know how will they be used nowadays.
 
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You can always break it into pieces and take in few trips no need to match world power like US, Russia etc with billions of $$$$ defense budget
India can do what ever they went but need to feed people and build toilets rather then military

Pak can take care of social sector
 
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I am elated by PAs procurement spree of M113s and M109 howitzers. Getting M110 howitzers from Turkey will be an icing on the cake,the impact radius of these 8inch (203mm) howitzers is second to non.
 
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Haha why ? It's just a wish.
You have excellent knowledge in many ground weapon systems, you have shared with us in past and should continue to do so in future. Elevate your quality with informative posts. Thats why i replied you with M-198's information to take on MBT's with weapon on lines of ATGM but having range of 20 km+ instead of usual 4-8 km range of ATGM.
 
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I won't bank on this citing new CB radars,UAV's and Sats.
System like G-6 are better,though costly.

WLRs themselves are key targets for the enemy. Therefore, efforts are be made to enhance their survivability through emission control policy and deployments. WLR's are radiating antennas, they invite fire from enemy in EW environment. WLR's need to be brought close to enemy to distinguish acoustics. There was this thread about Indian Army SWATHI WLR. You can see that it has to come with in range of Pakistani Artillery to operate effectively.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-...is-new-indian-land-radar-called-swati.481212/

Artillery battery/regimental deployment has cover of AD, this may range from 8 km up to 20 km. Any drone flying in this radius is shot down.

Artillery deployment is concealed from above. There are special coverings for artillery guns to conceal muzzle spark when firing rounds, acoustics, weather and terrain effects. Even if spotted from Satellite, enemy has to send forces from ground and air to destroy it which are very likely to be intercepted before they reach artillery positions.
 
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WLRs themselves are key targets for the enemy. Therefore, efforts are be made to enhance their survivability through emission control policy and deployments. WLR's are radiating antennas, they invite fire from enemy in EW environment. WLR's need to be brought close to enemy to distinguish acoustics. There was this thread about Indian Army SWATHI WLR. You can see that it has to come with in range of Pakistani Artillery to operate effectively.
No doubt they can be targeted through SEAD/DEAD by AF,but you see it work both ways.
EW would have problem against AESA systems.
Pak operates SLC-2 system which is AESA.
Artillery battery/regimental deployment has cover of AD, this may range from 8 km up to 20 km. Any drone flying in this radius is shot down.
Bharatis have been lately seen deploying state of the art drones designed by susralis for AD pen but good thing is that,they aren't huge in numbers.
Artillery deployment is concealed from above. There are special coverings for artillery guns to conceal muzzle spark when firing rounds, acoustics, weather and terrain effects. Even if spotted from Satellite, enemy has to send forces from ground and air to destroy it which are very likely to be intercepted before they reach artillery positions.
Nodoubt about it, but still HUMINT assets+sats when coupled with enemy Aircrafts firing standoff PGM's would pose serious threat to Arty pos's.
 
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