It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war: Australian journalist Neville Maxwell

[chhota bheem]

Where is the source. I'm quoting from India's own internal army report.

And now suddenly you are saying it did not start with the Chinese attack on October 20th? I guess you agree with me then.

Have you read the so called report report you have been refering to,did you find any where misunderstanding in setting up a post.if you havenot tell me,i will make it easy for you to understand.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Have you read the so called report report you have been refering to,did you find any where misunderstanding in setting up a post.if you havenot tell me,i will make it easy for you to understand.

So it was a "misunderstanding" that India pushed far beyond the MacMahon Line?

What about Nehru's decision to refuse all negotiations (and reject Zhou Enlai's offer of mutual recognition of AP for Aksai Chin)? What about Nehru's decision to decide the border lines unilaterally?

And then on October 11th when Nehru ordered the Indian Army to attack and push out the Chinese from these borders that he decided on unilaterally?

As General Niranjan Prasad, commander of 4 Division, wrote later: "We at the front knew that since Nehru had said he was going to attack, the Chinese were certainly not going to wait to be attacked" — and of course they didn't. That's how the war began.

Compared to the Chinese offensive which began on October 20th?

 

[chhota bheem]

So it was a "misunderstanding" that India pushed far beyond the MacMahon Line?

What about Nehru's decision to refuse all negotiations (and reject Zhou Enlai's offer of mutual recognition of AP for Aksai Chin)? What about Nehru's decision to decide the border lines unilaterally?

And then on October 11th when Nehru ordered the Indian Army to attack and push out the Chinese from these borders that he decided on unilaterally?



Compared to the Chinese offensive which began on October 20th?

If a post is set beyond MacMahon Line,then thats attacking,havent you read in the report that it was missunderstanding ,they where thinking they where setting a camp in Indian territory.

And if India has strarted the attack on 11 th on chinese posts,how many chinese soldiers where dead from 11th to the 20th.

 

[Omega007]

Where is the source. I'm quoting from India's own internal army report.

And now suddenly you are saying it did not start with the Chinese attack on October 20th? I guess you agree with me then.

It's from the book named "The Himalayan Blunder : The Curtain Raiser From India's Most Crushing Military Defeat,written by then Brigadier John P. Dalvi,the CiC of the ill-fated 7th Infantry Brigade.He had repeatedly requested to withdraw from the death trap of Namka Chu and even threatened to resign but all of his pleas fell in deaf years.

By the way,you sure have got some serious comprehension issues bud.The 10th October incident is listed as a "Skirmish" started by the PLA but it's not considered to be the official declaration of war."Officially" it all started on the 20th,when a reinforced PLA division,backed by heavy artillery attacked the thinly held positions of 7th infantry brigade and decimated it within a few hours.Is it that hard to comprehend??And even then the 10th october skirmish was initiated by your side.May be you should also download the official history of 1962 war.

Man,we both are too adamant and will probably never agree on this.What's done is done and it can not be altered.So lets agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

If a post is set beyond MacMahon Line,then thats attacking,havent you read in the report that it was missunderstanding ,they where thinking they where setting a camp in Indian territory.

And if India has strarted the attack on 11 th on chinese posts,how many chinese soldiers where dead from 11th to the 20th.

It's from the book named "The Himalayan Blunder : The Curtain Raiser From India's Most Crushing Military Defeat,written by then Brigadier John P. Dalvi,the CiC of the ill-fated 7th Infantry Brigade.He had repeatedly requested to withdraw from the death trap of Namka Chu and even threatened to resign but all of his pleas fell in deaf years.

By the way,you sure have got some serious comprehension issues bud.The 10th October incident is listed as a "Skirmish" started by the PLA but it's not considered to be the official declaration of war."Officially" it all started on the 20th,when a reinforced PLA division,backed by heavy artillery attacked the thinly held positions of 7th infantry brigade and decimated it within a few hours.Is it that hard to comprehend??And even then the 10th october skirmish was initiated by your side.May be you should also download the official history of 1962 war.

Man,we both are too adamant and will probably never agree on this.What's done is done and it can not be altered.So lets agree to disagree and move on.

No, read the OP.

What Nehru did (like the British before him) was to unilaterally "decide" where the border lines were, then told his troops to forcibly attack and eject the Chinese from those areas. That was the start of the war.

 

[dray]

What Nehru did (like the British before him) was to unilaterally "decide" where the border lines were, then told his troops to forcibly attack and eject the Chinese from those areas. That was the start of the war.

Nehru considered China as a friend and he helped China whole-heartedly when China was politically isolated in international arena. If you want to deny the political & moral help India provided including pitching for China in the UN, that's your choice. But Nehru cannot be blamed for "Starting a war" with China, There are enough documented proof to show that Indian army was well aware about the heavy Chinese military build up on Sino-India border, Lt-General Thorat even predicted the possible time of attack correctly and proposed the plan for defense, but Nehru didn't act on it believing in the promises of China for a peaceful resolution of the dispute in a friendly manner.

Consider this, Nehru 'knowingly' allowed China to achieve 10:1 advantage in numbers of military personnel on the border, China even sent some of the supplies through Calcutta port before the war. For about a month of war Nehru pathetically denied to reinforce our stranded soldiers with supply of ammunition and men, our soldiers were left to die there just because Nehru didn't want to escalate the war, hardly an act of war mongering, right? Nehru was a pacifist, foolishly pacifist, who even said that India doesn't need an army as India doesn't have any natural enemy.

And your last line is even further from the truth, China withdraw without any gain as: 1. China was not in a position to maintain such a long supply line. 2. Nehru finally decided to send 50000 troops to the battlefield after a month of indecision, China declared cease fire the next day. 3. USA turned their attention to the conflict.

You are stuck with the Forward Policy, Forward Policy was not a good enough reason to start the war, China built up the military on the borders for the war while Nehru lived in the delusion of Sino-India friendship and brotherhood. While Indians won't forgive Nehru for his failure to read the situation correctly and respond accordingly, the blame for starting the war doesn't stick to him as it was China who attacked India after a long planning and military build up.

In fact I believe the war could have been avoided even if Nehru maintained a third of the Chinese troops on our borders, China attacked India because Nehru allowed them to achieve the terrible number advantage against our troops, Nehru served the opportunity to China on a silver platter. We wouldn't have to suffer the 1962 if Nehru had even a fraction of the military mindset that you attribute to him.

The actions of Nehru, and preparation of Indian army on the ground don't support the statement that Nehru or India started the war, or even remotely displayed any intention to start a war, it was China who probably misjudged Nehru's intentions and attacked India, or there could be other motives also, but it was undoubtedly China who attacked India and started the war, India's stance was always defensive.

Even the Henderson-Brook report or the China apologist journalist Naville Maxwell pointed out that India may have set up a post beyond the McMahon line 'by mistake', which China used as a PRETEXT to attack India and start the war.

You can check this thread again to understand that Nehru didn't even consider any military solution, hence he didn't prepare for it even after repeated warnings from Indian army generals about an imminent Chinese attack.

Lt-General Thorat's 1962 China warning fell on deaf ears.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Nehru considered China as a friend and he helped China whole-heartedly when China was politically isolated in international arena. If you want to deny the political & moral help India provided including pitching for China in the UN, that's your choice.

Nehru called us "brothers" (it was only ever said in Hindi, not in Chinese), then he immediately back stabbed us, by hosting our largest separatist group in 1959, immediately after their failed violent uprising against China.

As if that was not enough, he also attacked us during our worst ever famine in history, the Great leap forward.

What kind of "brother" attacks you when you are dying of starvation? That is a sick mockery of the term brother.

There are enough documented proof to show that Indian army was well aware about the heavy Chinese military build up on Sino-India border, Lt-General Thorat even predicted the possible time of attack correctly and proposed the plan for defense, but Nehru didn't act on it believing in the promises of China for a peaceful resolution of the dispute in a friendly manner.

That is a rather silly argument.

Military build up is not proof of an imminent attack.

By that logic, China's military build up in Tibet is a hundred times greater TODAY, than it ever was during the 1960's.

The border infrastructure imbalance is even more in our favor now, meaning we can bring a much greater force of soldiers and equipment to any point along the LAC, in overwhelming numbers and speed. The disparity is so great that the Indian Army has openly complained about it in the media.

Not to mention our military budget, and the fact that we have the world's largest inventory of non-nuclear ballistic missiles in the world, which combined with our thousands of cruise missiles and rocket artillery, can easily target New Delhi (which is only 300 km from the border), and take out all of India's airbases that could provide cover to India's NE.

And given the fact that we have the high ground on the Tibetan plateau, India's ground radars will be facing a sheer mountain wall, meaning that they will not be able to detect missiles or aircraft until they have crossed the plateau.

So, given China's enormous military build up in Tibet today, does that mean China is preparing to attack India?

 

[chhota bheem]

No, read the OP.

What Nehru did (like the British before him) was to unilaterally "decide" where the border lines were, then told his troops to forcibly attack and eject the Chinese from those areas. That was the start of the war.

Again i ask how many chinese where killed by IA in those 9 days or home many posts where captured by the IA by ejecting chinese soldiers.

 

[Omega007]

If a post is set beyond MacMahon Line,then thats attacking,havent you read in the report that it was missunderstanding ,they where thinking they where setting a camp in Indian territory.

And if India has strarted the attack on 11 th on chinese posts,how many chinese soldiers where dead from 11th to the 20th.

Indian Army never attacked the PLA positions in 10th or 11th october,period.Infact it was PLA who first attacked the Indian Army positions on 10th.
Although Nehru had ordered to evict the Chinese on 9th october and many times before.It's another thing that those verbal orders were never implemented on the ground.

 

[chhota bheem]

Nehru called us "brothers" (it was only ever said in Hindi, not in Chinese), then he immediately back stabbed us, by hosting our largest separatist group in 1959, immediately after their failed violent uprising against China.

As if that was not enough, he also attacked us during our worst ever famine in history, the Great leap forward.

What kind of "brother" attacks you when you are dying of starvation? That is a sick mockery of the term brother.



That is a rather silly argument.

Military build up is not proof of an imminent attack.

By that logic, China's military build up in Tibet is a hundred times greater TODAY, than it ever was during the 1960's.

The border infrastructure imbalance is even more in our favor now, meaning we can bring a much greater force of soldiers and equipment to any point along the LAC, in overwhelming numbers and speed. The disparity is so great that the Indian Army has openly complained about it in the media.

Not to mention our military budget, and the fact that we have the world's largest inventory of non-nuclear ballistic missiles in the world, which combined with our thousands of cruise missiles and rocket artillery, can easily target New Delhi (which is only 300 km from the border), and take out all of India's airbases that could provide cover to India's NE.

And given the fact that we have the high ground on the Tibetan plateau, India's ground radars will be facing a sheer mountain wall, meaning that they will not be able to detect missiles or aircraft until they have crossed the plateau.

So, given China's enormous military build up in Tibet today, does that mean China is preparing to attack India?

Chinese rulers wanted to divert the internal tensions in china what else can be better than threat to the country.they used 62 for their own use,

These is the second time i am asking you,do you save the posts some where,how come you come up with same argument para by para on all 62 related threads.

 

[dray]

Nehru called us "brothers" (it was only ever said in Hindi, not in Chinese), then he immediately back stabbed us, by hosting our largest separatist group in 1959, immediately after their failed violent uprising against China.

As if that was not enough, he also attacked us during our worst ever famine in history, the Great leap forward.

What kind of "brother" attacks you when you are dying of starvation? That is a sick mockery of the term brother.

Repeating a lie a million times doesn't make it a truth my friend, especially when a billion+ people are here on this side to uphold the truth. A detailed analysis of the stark differences in the military build up on two sides of the border clearly shows that China was preparing for an attack and India was not, this was stated by the military generals of that time and it turned out to be true.

And Nehru was not a Chinese with knowledge of Chinese language, that he would say "Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai" in Chinese, that doesn't make it a lie. Your leaders also speak in Chinese and we interpret it in a language that we understand, that doesn't make your leaders liars, does it? Silly argument.

That is a rather silly argument.

Military build up is not proof of an imminent attack.

By that logic, China's military build up in Tibet is a hundred times greater TODAY, than it ever was during the 1960's.

The border infrastructure imbalance is even more in our favor now, meaning we can bring a much greater force of soldiers and equipment to any point along the LAC, in overwhelming numbers and speed. The disparity is so great that the Indian Army has openly complained about it in the media.

Not to mention our military budget, and the fact that we have the world's largest inventory of non-nuclear ballistic missiles in the world, which combined with our thousands of cruise missiles and rocket artillery, can easily target New Delhi (which is only 300 km from the border), and take out all of India's airbases that could provide cover to India's NE.

And given the fact that we have the high ground on the Tibetan plateau, India's ground radars will be facing a sheer mountain wall, meaning that they will not be able to detect missiles or aircraft until they have crossed the plateau.

So, given China's enormous military build up in Tibet today, does that mean China is preparing to attack India?

Military professionals can analyse the build-up and its pace to understand whether it is for an imminent attack or a regular affair, 1962 military build-up was identified as a build-up for attack by our generals, as far as I know, the present position of Chinese military with our border is not being identified as something for imminent attack by our military professionals.

But the point is OUR NON-EXISTENT MILITARY BUILD-UP in 1962, that clearly showed that we were not preparing for a war, neither we had any intention to attack China, China attacked us and dragged us unwillingly in a war that could be completely avoided.

 

[BJP*]

Military build up is not proof of an imminent attack.

Why China which was suffering from worst ever famine in history, the Great leap forward would built up its Military on Indian border. Clearly Chinese intentions were not good. However In that small fight of 20 days china lost a potential friend for next hundreds of years. Backstabbers!!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Chinese rulers wanted to divert the internal tensions in china what else can be better than threat to the country.they used 62 for their own use,

These is the second time i am asking you,do you save the posts some where,how come you come up with same argument para by para on all 62 related threads.

So why did Nehru attack us first?

Read it, from the Henderson-Brooks report:

As General Niranjan Prasad, commander of 4 Division, wrote later: "We at the front knew that since Nehru had said he was going to attack, the Chinese were certainly not going to wait to be attacked" — and of course they didn't. That's how the war began.

The Henderson-Brooks report quotes from Indian Generals, who were fighting on the ground in the 1962 War.

I guess they know more about it then you do?

 

[dray]

So why did Nehru attack us first?

Read it, from the Henderson-Brooks report:

The Henderson-Brooks report quotes from Indian Generals, who were fighting on the ground in the 1962 War.

I guess they know more about it then you do?

And @Omega007 already showed you by quoting a general's book that it was CHINA that ACTUALLY attacked India.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Repeating a lie a million times doesn't make it a truth my friend, especially when a billion+ people are here on this side to uphold the truth. A detailed analysis of the stark differences in the military build up on two sides of the border clearly shows that China was preparing for an attack and India was not, this was stated by the military generals of that time and it turned out to be true.

And Nehru was not a Chinese with knowledge of Chinese language, that he would say "Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai" in Chinese, that doesn't make it a lie. Your leaders also speak in Chinese and we interpret it in a language that we understand, that doesn't make your leaders liars, does it? Silly argument.



Military professionals can analyse the build-up and its pace to understand whether it is for an imminent attack or a regular affair, 1962 military build-up was identified as a build-up for attack by our generals, as far as I know, the present position of Chinese military with our border is not being identified as something for imminent attack by our military professionals.

But the point is OUR NON-EXISTENT MILITARY BUILD-UP in 1962, that clearly showed that we were not preparing for a war, neither we had any intention to attack China, China attacked us and dragged us unwillingly in a war that could be completely avoided.

Actually it is the Indian media, the Indian academics, and the Indian army reports that are pushing forward the simple fact that it was India's Forward Policy that started the 1962 War. A fact on which both Indian historians and Western historians agree.

Or do you think the Indian Army, the Indian media, as well as Indian and Western historians are all on China's payroll?

Strange, because your Italian Sonia has more personal wealth than the entire Standing Committee combined. How could we bribe the Indian Army into writing Chinese propaganda so easily?