Israel's "Iron Dome" downs Qassams

[jha]

well you can celebrate on the news about this bt after forgetting baraks and patriots

 

[Ron S]

This system is very advanced, it can detect rockets that are aimed to non populated areas and know not to shoot them. Very interesting, I wonder if Israel will sell this system to other countries.
I hope that this one of kind system should bring a new balance to the area.

 

[Canaan]

This system is very advanced, it can detect rockets that are aimed to non populated areas and know not to shoot them. Very interesting, I wonder if Israel will sell this system to other countries.
I hope that this one of kind system should bring a new balance to the area.

you are missing a rather important point. The whole problem is occupation, so even if "Israel" succeeds in shooting down these rockets, Hamas and others will just find new ways to do things.

 

[Renegade]

you are missing a rather important point. The whole problem is occupation, so even if "Israel" succeeds in shooting down these rockets, Hamas and others will just find new ways to do things.

Israel has show tremendous capability to overcome any security challange. There was a time when suicide bombers nearly ripped Israel apart, the Israelis answered by building the Seperation Wall wall around the west bank. The result being that there are no more suicide bombings but the west bank has been cordoned off increasing Palistenian hardship.

Now the Israelis have neutalised the rockets with the Iron Dome. Israel is a technology intensive society and will find answers to problems sooner or later. So terror as a means to anything is ineffective, specially against Israel.

Terror has achieved nothing it has only invited hardship after hardship for the Palistenian people.

 

[Canaan]

Israel has show tremendous capability to overcome any security challange. There was a time when suicide bombers nearly ripped Israel apart, the Israelis answered by building the Seperation Wall wall around the west bank. The result being that there are no more suicide bombings but the west bank has been cordoned off increasing Palistenian hardship.

Now the Israelis have neutalised the rockets with the Iron Dome. Israel is a technology intensive society and will find answers to problems sooner or later. So terror as a means to anything is ineffective, specially against Israel.

Terror has achieved nothing it has only invited hardship after hardship for the Palistenian people.

Building the illegal apartheid wall and ripping apart the West bank has been a factor in reducing attacks on the zionist entity, but keep in mind that the 2nd intifada ceased in 2004 hence contributing to the reduction of attacks, furthermore the people of WB are predominantly pro-fatah, and hence follow the political line of the PA which dictates an end to armed struggle against the zionist entity.
The iron dome is still a prototype, we don't know how effective it will be in reality, and the cost-benefit factor of the system. If the Palestinians can't beat the zionist entity by force, it can certainly bleed it slowly, the system will cost more than 1billion NIS to set up, not included is the price of running it. A Qassam rocket I guess costs a couple of hundred $ to produce, while the missiles used to intercept these crude rockets probably run in tens of thousands of $, you do the math.

 

[S-2]

"If the Palestinians can't beat the zionist entity by force, it can certainly bleed it slowly, the system will cost more than 1billion NIS to set up, not included is the price of running it. A Qassam rocket I guess costs a couple of hundred $ to produce, while the missiles used to intercept these crude rockets probably run in tens of thousands of $, you do the math."

No. You do the math.

I don't expend missiles unnecessarily if I can cue specific areas in which to look for launches or cue specific areas or trajectories to ignore.

That elevates the liklihood that the system would only engage where a trajectory indicates a target of value on the other end. What sort of payoff, therefore, might be achieved if a Qassam worth a few hundred dollars strikes an apartment building? Who knows whom you might kill and their importance or financial contributions to the Israeli community? Who can predict what damage might be caused?

What's the cost of a Qassam success?

What's the boon to the self-assuredness of the Israelis if they can see Qassam defeated without the need for S. Lebanon incursions? If successful the IDF no longer need fear a battle of attrition along the Lebanese border because it's been ordered, for political reasons, to remove the missile sites or some other vaguely defined mission inside Lebanon.

That would then become unnecessary.

No army likes being on the defensive unless it's the only way it can win. For POG (Party Of God), baiting the IDF into southern Lebanon worked in 2006. It might not the next time. I'm sure the IDF has been preparing diligently for such a possibility. Don't blame the IDF, though, if they prefer to see the need to do so pre-empted by the Iron Dome system.

No system is perfect but the Israelis wouldn't pursue such with so much vigor if they didn't believe they've a viable solution able to engage multiple targets fired over an extended period. Remember, Israel understands perfectly the tempo by which POG can unleash its rockets...even while being subjected to consistent attack by the IsAF.

Those 2006 rocket attacks pretty much defined the system requirements.

Thanks.

If so, it'll be interesting to see how both HAMAS and POG respond. Back to old-style Fatah infiltration?

 

[Sinnerman108]

"If the Palestinians can't beat the zionist entity by force, it can certainly bleed it slowly, the system will cost more than 1billion NIS to set up, not included is the price of running it. A Qassam rocket I guess costs a couple of hundred $ to produce, while the missiles used to intercept these crude rockets probably run in tens of thousands of $, you do the math."

No. You do the math.

I don't expend missiles unnecessarily if I can cue specific areas in which to look for launches or cue specific areas or trajectories to ignore.

That elevates the liklihood that the system would only engage where a trajectory indicates a target of value on the other end. What sort of payoff, therefore, might be achieved if a Qassam worth a few hundred dollars strikes an apartment building? Who knows whom you might kill and their importance or financial contributions to the Israeli community? Who can predict what damage might be caused?

What's the cost of a Qassam success?

What's the boon to the self-assuredness of the Israelis if they can see Qassam defeated without the need for S. Lebanon incursions? If successful the IDF no longer need fear a battle of attrition along the Lebanese border because it's been ordered, for political reasons, to remove the missile sites or some other vaguely defined mission inside Lebanon.

That would then become unnecessary.

No army likes being on the defensive unless it's the only way it can win. For POG (Party Of God), baiting the IDF into southern Lebanon worked in 2006. It might not the next time. I'm sure the IDF has been preparing diligently for such a possibility. Don't blame the IDF, though, if they prefer to see the need to do so pre-empted by the Iron Dome system.

No system is perfect but the Israelis wouldn't pursue such with so much vigor if they didn't believe they've a viable solution able to engage multiple targets fired over an extended period. Remember, Israel understands perfectly the tempo by which POG can unleash its rockets...even while being subjected to consistent attack by the IsAF.

Those 2006 rocket attacks pretty much defined the system requirements.

Thanks.

If so, it'll be interesting to see how both HAMAS and POG respond. Back to old-style Fatah infiltration?

Fully agreed with S-2 and that was my original point.
Why not do two things.
1. Bleed them economically and mentally
2. Launch enough small cheap rockets to over load the system ( Every system has an over load) and note it down. It will come handy whilst launching the expensive hard tip missiles.

There is just ONE israel. no other aspect of foreign policy can be more devastating then to exploit this.

 

[S-2]

"Launch enough small cheap rockets to over load the system ( Every system has an over load) and note it down."

Remember this- just because Iron Dome exists doesn't mean that the IsAF or IDF are out of the game.

1.) Aircraft continue to fly during a conflict and my guess is the reason the IsAF would be up is to provide a quick response to rocket firings.

2.) Same too with IDF artillery linked to counter-battery radar and aerial observers.

In neither case is it absolutely necessary to be inside Lebanon to achieve those effects.

POG isn't likely to have the privilege to salvo off unlimited serials of rockets unimpeded while Israel passively allows IRON DOME to do its thing. Not their nature.

Israel will integrate IRON DOME and related ABM defenses with more active measures such as those described above. IRON DOME won't be implemented in lieu of but in addition to existing defenses.

Thanks.

 

[Sinnerman108]

"Launch enough small cheap rockets to over load the system ( Every system has an over load) and note it down."

Remember this- just because Iron Dome exists doesn't mean that the IsAF or IDF are out of the game.

1.) Aircraft continue to fly during a conflict and my guess is the reason the IsAF would be up is to provide a quick response to rocket firings.

2.) Same too with IDF artillery linked to counter-battery radar and aerial observers.

In neither case is it absolutely necessary to be inside Lebanon to achieve those effects.

POG isn't likely to have the privilege to salvo off unlimited serials of rockets unimpeded while Israel passively allows IRON DOME to do its thing. Not their nature.

Israel will integrate IRON DOME and related ABM defenses with more active measures such as those described above. IRON DOME won't be implemented in lieu of but in addition to existing defenses.

Thanks.

Agreed and that is the sane thing to do.
However technological challenges are immense, for example
To integrate the IRON dome with Air defense and anti missile defenses
they would need to develop a mechanism to identify a missile from a dumb rocket.
This can be done by co relating the event with any sensor data that a satellite has picked up. However the same would not hold true for some thing like the Pakistani Cruise missile because of it's close to terrain flight path.

The technology to solve this problem is there, however even the best image recognition, threat correlation and AI systems can not guarantee an accurate response.
To be honest it is FAR from accurate even in controlled conditions.

Not to mention here the results of such "inaccurate" event.

However if I was Iran or HizbuAllah I would be very interested in knowing a break point of the system once over loaded.

I would set up some guys to improve the rockets to mimic an actual missile entry flight path as close as possible.

Just to keep the IDF busy !

 

[S-2]

"I would set up some guys to improve the rockets to mimic an actual missile entry flight path as close as possible."

My guess is that would be entirely possible to test mimic a missile's flight profile. IIRC, FIREFINDER counter-mortar radar could identify the nature of the threat from velocity, trajectory, and RCS of the threat.

I don't see why IRON DOME wouldn't have the same feature. Could it be duped?

I think it opens an interesting electronic warfare front in Lebanon and Gaza. What Iran might learn there by provoking a defensive reaction might exceed simply the system's saturation point.

It would be interesting to see if Israel with-holds exposing this system. Deployed? Sure. Activated? Less certain there. Clearly there are reasons to stay away from emitting.

Iran will need to be very careful introducing ballistic missiles to the fight. That could cause a reaction at a variety of levels.

Thanks.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

So when this Iron Dome will be put to test .
Would love to see its success rate ...

 

[Renegade]

Building the illegal apartheid wall and ripping apart the West bank has been a factor in reducing attacks on the zionist entity, but keep in mind that the 2nd intifada ceased in 2004 hence contributing to the reduction of attacks, furthermore the people of WB are predominantly pro-fatah, and hence follow the political line of the PA which dictates an end to armed struggle against the zionist entity. .

Intifada or no intifada, suicide bombings have been the weapons of choice for the Palestinian terrorist. It is just that the intensity of attack goes up during the intifada and goes down after it. By no means these terror strikes cease on their own

Suicide bombers come from both Gaza and the West Bank irrespective of who rules the territory. Though cpmparatively moderate when compared to the Hamas the PA still utilizes terror as weapon. Any keen observer of the Israel-Palestinian conflict will only rubbish your claims that PA has signaled an complete end to armed conflict against Israel. Compared to Hamas they just seem to be the good boys at the moment, though there is no denying that they have tried to give a peaceful solution more emphesis recently.

The iron dome is still a prototype, we don't know how effective it will be in reality, and the cost-benefit factor of the system. If the Palestinians can't beat the zionist entity by force, it can certainly bleed it slowly, the system will cost more than 1billion NIS to set up, not included is the price of running it. A Qassam rocket I guess costs a couple of hundred $ to produce, while the missiles used to intercept these crude rockets probably run in tens of thousands of $, you do the math.

The Iron Dome might be a prototype now, but it will not take the Israelis much time to operationalise it. And with time it will only get better.

As for the cost part of it - read the article carefully, it clearly says that the system will be cost effective and the Israelis are not fools (they are smarter than you want to think); they have been known to do wonders with shoe-string budgets in the past. and "Uncle Sam" is always there to finance them if the need arises.

As Barak Obama said "Israels security is sacroscant and non-negotiable". Those words carry weight my friend.

 

[karan.1970]

Intifada or no intifada, suicide bombings have been the weapons of choice for the Palestinian terrorist. It is just that the intensity of attack goes up during the intifada and goes down after it. By no means these terror strikes cease on their own

Suicide bombers come from both Gaza and the West Bank irrespective of who rules the territory. Though cpmparatively moderate when compared to the Hamas the PA still utilizes terror as weapon. Any keen observer of the Israel-Palestinian conflict will only rubbish your claims that PA has signaled an complete end to armed conflict against Israel. Compared to Hamas they just seem to be the good boys at the moment, though there is no denying that they have tried to give a peaceful solution more emphesis recently.





The Iron Dome might be a prototype now, but it will not take the Israelis much time to operationalise it. And with time it will only get better.

As for the cost part of it - read the article carefully, it clearly says that the system will be cost effective and the Israelis are not fools (they are smarter than you want to think); they have been known to do wonders with shoe-string budgets in the past. and "Uncle Sam" is always there to finance them if the need arises.

As Barak Obama said "Israels security is sacroscant and non-negotiable". Those words carry weight my friend.

Interesting..

US borrows money from China and helps Israel with that money which Israel uses to counter Palestinian terrorists who have complete support of Pakistan which is good friend of China.

world politics at its murky best

 

[Renegade]

Interesting..

US borrows money from China and helps Israel with that money which Israel uses to counter Palestinian terrorists who have complete support of Pakistan which is good friend of China.

world politics at its murky best

The United States has been backing Israel financially much before China ever came into the equation!!

 

[karan.1970]

The United States has been backing Israel financially much before China ever came into the equation!!

Thats true. What I was trying to highlight was the funny situation of today...

And to add to that the fact that China can not stop funding US as that would mean collapse of its own export economy. So in a way, China is subsidizing US's trade deficit with itself.