Israelis worry over U.S. defense cutbacks

[Wright]

It's middle east. Everybody hates everyone else.

Also while Israel is surrounded by angry Arabs, we are not. We only have one direct Arab neighbour (Iraq) who currently aren't hostile towards us. Six out of the seven other direct neighbours we have aren't even Arab.

I was speaking in regards to the gulf.

 

[PteX]

You are delusional my friend, at its best.So while I leave you there,let me assure you,Israel,without its nuclear weapons is practically nothing.It's a very tiny country and its infrastructures can be destroyed in no more than a day.
And about the so called free nation thing, you are wrong.Israel is built on lands that belongs to someone else.Besides,political system has nothing to do with being able to win a war.Also,we are not interested in any war.I think it's your PM, who is threatening that we will attack this day/that day and has made a clown out of himself really.There is a reason you don't attack Iran,and that isn't your super-strong army I suppose.It's simply because you can't win the war. Spare me for the terrorist part,because the only thing that comes to mind by hearing the name Israel,is killing women,children,terrorizing civilians and at last,racism.
About the importance part, it doesn't take a genius to understand that Iran is located in of the most geostrategically important places in the world and it's not just for gas or oil.It's human resources,geography,natural reserves,ideology,all together make it an important country.Why would Russia turn to Iran for oil or gas,while it has the biggest reserves itself?regarding China,it's just business as usual.Also all of these countries have somethings in common:countering western influence in Asia and the world is the most important one.

Regarding Israel's insignificant gas reserves,well you can use it for yourself, but you can't use it as a weapon against any country.Don't you overestimate your power in this matter.

Israel,without its nuclear weapons is practically nothing.

This is where i stopped reading because it is pointless to debate with those who live in a separate reality.

Those 30 years without nuclear weaponry or American support where we crushed 6 different nations in 6 days probably didn't happen as well, did it?

Your leaders like to deny it but it was our support that prevented Iran from collapsing during the Iran-Iraq war. Foolish mistake by the leaders of Israel at the time, thinking you would deviate from the Arab mentality that came over you in the Islamic revolution.

You have BlackTurkey there talking about Jordan being a match for Israel... I don't indulge him either. You Iranians pretend to be much wiser than the Arabs that despise you but you just lower yourselves to their levels by refusing to face reality.

 

[PteX]

Nothing against Israel, i think Israel did an excellent job against the hundred million of surrounding Arabs, but Israel is a tiny nation, it essentially needs the back up from a superpower nation against so many enemies.

I think Israel has the plan to annex more lands from Arabs with the help of USA, this is the only way to ensure the future survival for your people.

Israel wants to get rid of the land it has annexed, not add more inbred illiterate Arabs to threaten us with their mass reproduction.

Israel did not have a superpower like the US to back us until after we already humiliated those hundreds of millions of Arabs again and again. Six day war is called what it's called for a reason.

I welcome any nation that helps the world become a better place. China can do much to better this world.

 

[Persian Achaemenid Empire]

^^^

You keep talking about how you defeated 6 arab nations lol. but you seemed to forget how you got your ***** kicked by hezbollah in 32 day war? You fought bunch of incompetent armies and won. good for you. but a hezbollah which is just a small group trained and armed by Iran kicked your *****.

Israel is nothing, nothing but a terrorists state which can only kill innocent women, children and scientists.
You pathetic cowards, why don't you make a move against Iran instead of all this threats? Go ahead then and try and attack Iran.

 

[neehar]

That is because the downfall of the USA will potentially signal the downfall of Israel. They need one of the upcoming superpowers to be their sugar daddy after that. They are already cozying up to India, but I don't think India is enough to save them in the long run.

india is not interested to have any strategic relation with israel.our govts sympathised for palstine issue in many public forums.we just had a trade relation same as with u..our primary concern is our economy and development now nothing more.we have better things to do than an alliance with israel.but...u.s is going to retain its superiority for minimum 5 decades..even after the cuts its defence budjet is still the largest.and other powers including china needs time to reach that place.besides $50 billion was nothing compared to their $700 billion defence budget

 

[ResurgentIran]

Israelis keep talking about the insignificant support they have to Iran during our war with Iraq.
Lets not forget how Shah practically for free, gave copious amount of oil to Israel during 1973 Yom Kippur war.
Man what a mistake the Shah made. If it wasnt for that fact and their nuclear arsenal (this played the biggest role), Israel would have been crushed by the Egyptian and Syrian Army.

Today Israel is not really all that, nor was it back then.
The current breed and generation of Israeli soldiers are some of the most overhyped in the world. They got their a.ss handed to them by a Guerilla group and was forced out of most of Southern Lebanon. Even with all that aid from a global superpower.
Pathetic.

 

[Surenas]

I support Israel. They tend to keep Arabs in check. It's the most civilized, free and developed country in the region. Iranians and Israelis have no historical reason to keep this cold-war conflict enduring. I admire their intelligence and survivability in the shi!hole called the Middle East.

 

[neehar]

But American power will not last forever my friend. These defence cuts are just the beginning of the fall from grace for the US. It will be interesting to see who Israel will leech off of once the US is out of the picture.

its just $50 billion .even if their defence budget reduces further..they will still possess the largest air fleet with 5th generation planes,largest naval fleet with with 11 accs..and it still got the second largest army.it would be not an easy task for any single nation to become a match for u.s in the near future.

 

[Serpentine]

Israel,without its nuclear weapons is practically nothing.

This is where i stopped reading because it is pointless to debate with those who live in a separate reality.

Those 30 years without nuclear weaponry or American support where we crushed 6 different nations in 6 days probably didn't happen as well, did it?

Your leaders like to deny it but it was our support that prevented Iran from collapsing during the Iran-Iraq war. Foolish mistake by the leaders of Israel at the time, thinking you would deviate from the Arab mentality that came over you in the Islamic revolution.

You have BlackTurkey there talking about Jordan being a match for Israel... I don't indulge him either. You Iranians pretend to be much wiser than the Arabs that despise you but you just lower yourselves to their levels by refusing to face reality.

I thought we are going to have a logical discussion,but you can't convince me and vice versa.
Your statement about Iran-Iraq war does not make sense at all.Can you list the equipment that Israel gave Iran?

We fought Iraq 6 years on our own,without foreign help and under total embargo.Did Iran have any superpower helping it?or any major power?Let's be fair.How could you save Iran from collapse while at 2 last years of war,we had always the upper hand?This is not related to this thread and we can discuss it somewhere else,but just make your facts right.

 

[KingMamba]

Israelis keep talking about the insignificant support they have to Iran during our war with Iraq.
Lets not forget how Shah practically for free, gave copious amount of oil to Israel during 1973 Yom Kippur war.
Man what a mistake the Shah made. If it wasnt for that fact and their nuclear arsenal (this played the biggest role), Israel would have been crushed by the Egyptian and Syrian Army.

Today Israel is not really all that, nor was it back then.
The current breed and generation of Israeli soldiers are some of the most overhyped in the world. They got their a.ss handed to them by a Guerilla group and was forced out of most of Southern Lebanon. Even with all that aid from a global superpower.
Pathetic.

I always laugh at how they forget that have gotten whooped the last couple of times and even in 1971 they got it handed to them. Anybody who has any doubt just google golda meir nuclear blackmail and you will see that the Israeli leadership knew they were getting smacked so they blackmailed the US after which they managed to push the Egyptians and Syrians back with American arms. Even then it was a draw, also Hezbollah smacked them but despite multiple Israeli sources they refuse to believe it as well.

its just $50 billion .even if their defence budget reduces further..they will still possess the largest air fleet with 5th generation planes,largest naval fleet with with 11 accs..and it still got the second largest army.it would be not an easy task for any single nation to become a match for u.s in the near future.

Yes $50 billion really is peanuts. Militarily the US is unmatchable in the world, it would take every nation on the planet to be able to beat the US conventionally. Economically however China may overtake US in 10-20 years if we don't get our act straight but I think the economy will better itself before that and it will be a tight economic race.

 

[Surenas]

I thought we are going to have a logical discussion,but you can't convince me and vice versa.
Your statement about Iran-Iraq war does not make sense at all.

His statement is untrue and far-fatched, although Iranian-Israeli cooperation in the Iran-Iraq War (arm trade, Osirak attack, etc) does show our strategic interest in having good relations with Israel.
But he forgets about Iranian help to Israel during the Shah, which was more significant than Israeli help to Iran during the Iran-Iraq war.

We have no business or interest in this Arab-Israeli conflict. Palestinians consider their land to be Arab land, and I as Iranian have nothing to do with Arab land. Every Iranian life for Arab land is a waste life. Arabs ignited and supported the most brutal war in Iran's history and Palestinians backed Saddam. I have never met one Israeli talking about the 'Arabian Gulf' nor have I ever met an Israeli claiming Iranian land, like Arabs. They do not talk about 'heretic shia' or 'Persian fire-worshippers'. When Israelis, people and officials, talk about Iran they always mention Iran with respect and dignity, especially when they addressing the Iranian people.

This whole cold-war conflict between Iran and Israel is nonsense, and how faster it stops, the better it is. If it ever comes down to a showdown, I will fight for Israel before I will raise one finger for Arabs.

 

[PteX]

I thought we are going to have a logical discussion,but you can't convince me and vice versa.
Your statement about Iran-Iraq war does not make sense at all.Can you list the equipment that Israel gave Iran?

We fought Iraq 6 years on our own,without foreign help and under total embargo.Did Iran have any superpower helping it?or any major power?Let's be fair.How could you save Iran from collapse while at 2 last years of war,we had always the upper hand?This is not related to this thread and we can discuss it somewhere else,but just make your facts right.

The following arms were supplied to Iran:[31][32]

August 20, 1985. 96 TOW anti-tank missiles
September 14, 1985. 408 more TOWs
November 24, 1985. 18 Hawk anti-aircraft missiles
February 17, 1986. 500 TOWs
February 27, 1986. 500 TOWs
May 24, 1986. 508 TOWs, 240 Hawk spare parts
August 4, 1986. More Hawk spares
October 28, 1986. 500 TOWs

On August 20, 1985, Israel sent 96 American-made BGM-71 TOW antitank missiles to Iran through an arms dealer named Manucher Ghorbanifar, a friend of Iran's Prime Minister, Mir-Hossein Mousavi.[citation needed] Hours after receiving the weapons, the Islamic fundamentalist group Islamic Jihad released one hostage they had been holding in Lebanon, the Reverend Benjamin Weir.[21]

Era, the Contra affair is common knowledge. They didn't block google in your country, did they?

 

[neehar]

Yes $50 billion really is peanuts. Militarily the US is unmatchable in the world, it would take every nation on the planet to be able to beat the US conventionally. Economically however China may overtake US in 10-20 years if we don't get our act straight but I think the economy will better itself before that and it will be a tight economic race.

just for estimation..with about 15% of budget rise china is expect to reach u.s with in 2 decades but that doesnt give them superiority .u.s still holds better technology and large forces especially navy..having said that.its tough for a single nation to confront u.s but not for a group..nations in NATO can not stand against these new powers except u.s..so in coming days we can see that u.s may show interest to tackle issue in a more diplomatic way than in a military disputes..what i mean is u.s may not assert the power 2-3 decades from now as it is doing now..regarding chinese economic growth ..they grow with an average 7% for atleast a decade.and u.s cant compete with that..even after this decade they'll manage to grow at a minimum of 3%..

just for the comparison

 

[Serpentine]

His statement is untrue and far-fatched, although Iranian-Israeli cooperation in the Iran-Iraq War (arm trade, Osirak attack, etc) does show our strategic interest in having good relations with Israel.
But he forgets about Iranian help to Israel during the Shah, which was more significant than Israeli help to Iran during the Iran-Iraq war.

We have no business or interest in this Arab-Israeli conflict. Palestinians consider their land to be Arab land, and I as Iranian have nothing to do with Arab land. Every Iranian life for Arab land is a waste life. Arabs ignited and supported the most brutal war in Iran's history and Palestinians backed Saddam. I have never met one Israeli talking about the 'Arabian Gulf' nor have I ever met an Israeli claiming Iranian land, like Arabs. They do not talk about 'heretic shia' or 'Persian fire-worshippers'. When Israelis, people and officials, talk about Iran they always mention Iran with respect and dignity, especially when they addressing the Iranian people.

This whole cold-war conflict between Iran and Israel is nonsense, and how faster it stops, the better it is. If it ever comes down to a showdown, I will fight for Israel before I will raise one finger for Arabs.

I do agree with the bold part, Isralies do not have the mentioned problems with us,while Arabs do.But we can't generalize,many Arabs and Palestinians support Iran too.But the best options is to leave Palestinians to choose their destiny through a referandum.If they agree with a 2 state solution, Iran will accept that too,as it has always said.But you know,Israel will never allow that.It has a keen interest to keep this fight going.Even U.S pressure on it to statrt peace talks had no results.

The following arms were supplied to Iran:[31][32]

August 20, 1985. 96 TOW anti-tank missiles
September 14, 1985. 408 more TOWs
November 24, 1985. 18 Hawk anti-aircraft missiles
February 17, 1986. 500 TOWs
February 27, 1986. 500 TOWs
May 24, 1986. 508 TOWs, 240 Hawk spare parts
August 4, 1986. More Hawk spares
October 28, 1986. 500 TOWs

On August 20, 1985, Israel sent 96 American-made BGM-71 TOW antitank missiles to Iran through an arms dealer named Manucher Ghorbanifar, a friend of Iran's Prime Minister, Mir-Hossein Mousavi.[citation needed] Hours after receiving the weapons, the Islamic fundamentalist group Islamic Jihad released one hostage they had been holding in Lebanon, the Reverend Benjamin Weir.[21]

Era, the Contra affair is common knowledge. They didn't block google in your country, did they?

I know very well what contra affair is.
But would you mind telling me how 2000-3000 TOWs anti tank missiles and few spare parts saved Iran from 'collapse'? There is no need for exaggerations.

Besides,Israel was the middle man in contra,and just transferred U.S equipment to Iran through its channels.

 

[Surenas]

But we can't generalize,many Arabs and Palestinians support Iran too.

Indeed, we can't generalize, but many Arabs dislike Iranians/Persians from their heart. Its something historical and cultural. For instance, Iran was popular in the Middle East in 2006, but only because it supported Hezbollah in their conflict with Israel. If we don't talk loud about Palestine and Palestinians, no significant amount of people in the Arab world will back Iran. They see us, no matter what happens, as Ajams. We can have some public support for a couple of years, but that will fade away, like now, because it is artificially created.

Iran will accept that too,as it has always said.But you know,Israel will never allow that.It has a kenn interest to keep this fight going.Even U.S pressure on it to statrt peace talk had no results.

I support a two-state solution, but I can understand Israelis too. Give too much to Arabs and they will take your hand. When Palestinians start thinking about their people in stead of their hatred for Jews, things will be much better. I can respect Hezbollah for that, not because they fight Israel, but because they have social projects for their people. Unlike corrupt Palestinian officials backed by lazy Qatari sheikhs.