Israel offered Nuclear weapons to South Africa.

[Kompromat]

hi
so this doesn't count as nuclear proliferation since the people from the promised land are doing it

No its ok for Zionists.

 

[fallstuff]

so?

saudi arabia offered nukes to pakistan, north korea sold nukes to every terrorist state out there.

south africa was switzerland compared to the apartheid muslim/arab states.( Comment:Switzerland is showing its real color)

oh, and did i mention the arab states did plenty business with SA?

countries don't have friends, they have interests.

i LAUGH at the left and their islamist fools who attack israel on moral grounds, dubious not only to their own hypocrisy, but the fact that israel comes out superior in every fashion when lined up against the most liberal european state.

zionist south africans were instrumental in over-throwing the apartheid. (Comment: any source ? )

but it was worthless..because south africa is still a racist shithole still clinging to post-apartheid victimhood.

This is a troll from Daniel Pipes School of Hatred. Everything he says, and will say is just re-vegetation from that Pipes.

Excerts about Daniel Pipes from Source Watch:

Daniel Pipes has warned that America's Muslims are the enemy within and called for unrestricted racial profiling and monitoring of Muslims in the military.


Daniel Pipes claims that American Muslims are uniquely dangerous because of their potential for disloyalty (a typical quote: "The Muslim population in this country is not like any other group, for it includes within it a substantial body of people… who share with the suicide hijackers a hatred of the United States.") is taking advantage of this climate to suggest that "bothersome or offensive measures" such as internment camps may be the price "we" have to pay for security

Pipes has a long record of attempting to incite Americans against Arabs and Muslims. In 1990 he wrote:
'Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene. All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most'.

Not sure why PDF keeps this foul mouthed GolaniB around. The propaganda/lies that these troll spread is mind boggling.

Link:

Daniel Pipes - SourceWatch

Daniel Pipes Official Website.

 

[ramu]

This is a serious development and is something that cannot be thrown under the carpet. It will surface time and time again and Israel should face the consequences if this is true.

 

[below_freezing]

im not surprised. why act surprised? one racist white man's country accepts nuclear weapons from another racist white man's country that itself gained nuclear aid from a racist white man's country.

i bet south africa "voluntarily gave up" its nuclear weapons to prevent south africa from being the first black country with nukes.

 

[JonAsad]

so?

saudi arabia offered nukes to pakistan, north korea sold nukes to every terrorist state out there.

south africa was switzerland compared to the apartheid muslim/arab states.

oh, and did i mention the arab states did plenty business with SA?

countries don't have friends, they have interests.

i LAUGH at the left and their islamist fools who attack israel on moral grounds, dubious not only to their own hypocrisy, but the fact that israel comes out superior in every fashion when lined up against the most liberal european state.

zionist south africans were instrumental in over-throwing the apartheid.

but it was worthless..because south africa is still a racist shithole still clinging to post-apartheid victimhood.

I think Pakistan should give Nuke to Iran so to shutup Israel once n for all.

 

[Cheetah786]

Israel offered to sell apartheid-era South Africa nuclear warheads in 1975, British newspaper The Guardian has reported.

According to documents obtained by the newspaper, a secret meeting between then-Israeli defence minister Shimon Peres and his South African counterpart PW Botha ended with an offer by Jerusalem for the sale of warheads "in three sizes".

The Guardian claimedon Sunday that those "sizes" referred to conventional, chemical and nuclear weapons.

The documents provide evidence that Israel has nuclear weapons despite its policy of "ambiguity" in neither confirming nor denying their existence.

Israeli denial

A statement issued on Monday by the office of Peres, now Israel's president, denied the report.

"There exists no basis in reality for the claims published this morning by The Guardian that in 1975 Israel negotiated with South Africa the exchange of nuclear weapons.

"Unfortunately, The Guardian elected to write its piece based on the selective interpretation of South African documents and not on concrete facts," the statement said.

"Israel has never negotiated the exchange of nuclear weapons with South Africa. There exists no Israeli document or Israeli signature on a document that such negotiations took place."

The classified documents surrounding the agreement between the countries and cited by The Guardian were uncovered by Sasha Polakow-Suransky, an American academic, during research for a book, the newspaper said.

The defence ministers also signed a broad-ranging agreement governing military ties between the two countries that included a clause declaring that "the very existence of this agreement" was to remain secret.

Startling revelations

Sunday's report added that the documents were proof that Pretoria wanted the weapons to keep neighbouring states and other enemies from attacking them.
The report also said Israeli authorities attempted to keep the South African government from declassifying the documents.

According to The Guardian, the minutes of the meeting on March 31, 1975, record that: "Minister Botha expressed interest in a limited number of units of Chalet subject to the correct payload being available."

The document then records: "Minister Peres said the correct payload was available in three sizes. Minister Botha expressed his appreciation and said that he would ask for advice."

Polakow-Suransky, is also quoted as saying that Israel's offer to equip South Africa with atomic weapons was the result of the regime's need for a military deterrent and for potential strikes against neighbouring states.

South African desire

"South Africa's leaders yearned for a nuclear deterrent - which they believed would force the west to intervene on their behalf if Pretoria were ever seriously threatened - and the Israeli proposition put that goal within reach," the Guardian quoted Polakow-Suransky as writing in his book published in the US this week, The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's secret alliance with apartheid South Africa.

But the alleged deal did not go through, according to Polakow-Suransky, although Israel did reportedly provide South Africa with 30 grams of tritium, the substance which provides thermonuclear weapons with a boost to their explosive power.

The delivery, according to The Guardian, was enough to build several atomic bombs.

Waldo Stumpf, a former chief executive officer of South Africa's Atomic Energy Commission, told Al Jazeera that Botha "was quite adamant that the South African nuclear weapons programme was there for political reasons and was never there for technical reasons".

Israeli pressure

The documents confirm accounts by Dieter Gerhardt, a former South African naval commander, jailed in 1983 for spying for the Soviet Union.

After his release following the collapse of apartheid, Gerhardt said there was an agreement between Israel and South Africa called "Chalet" which involved an offer by the Jewish state to arm eight Jericho missiles with "special warheads".

According to the paper, Gerhardt said these were atomic bombs. But until now there has been no documentary evidence of the offer.

The existence of Israel's nuclear weapons programme was revealed by Israeli whistleblower Mordechai Vanunuto the Sunday Times in 1986.

He provided photographs taken inside the Dimona nuclear site but provided no written documentation.

According to The Guardian, Israel "pressured" the present South African government not to declassify documents obtained by Polakow-Suransky.

"The Israeli defence ministry tried to block my access to the agreement on the grounds it was sensitive material, especially the signature and the date," he told the paper.

"The South Africans didn't seem to care; they blacked out a few lines and handed it over to me. The ANC government is not so worried about protecting the dirty laundry of the apartheid regime's old allies."

Israel is widely believed to be the only nuclear-armed power in the Middle East, with around 200 warheads, but it has a policy of neither confirming nor denying that.

It has refused to sign the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty or to allow international surveillance of Dimona in the southern Negev desert.

Al Jazeera English - Middle East - 'Israeli nuclear offer to S Africa'

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ahh, lets see how far the US media runs with this story as they would had this been about Pakistan or Iran offering to sell weapons ....

 

[Moscow]

the problem with the world today is we seem to judge everything on what the US is doing , do have to have what US has, wear like them ,talk like them act like them and follow them in every respect , watch their movies and hate our own but then let us see

1. why are then we complaing that the US is not doing anything in this case the US is not the watchdog of the world The UN is but w have made the US the default watch dog and its not their fault they want to do as they think why should we complain then ..... its their independent policy no point abusing or pointing at them if they dont take action its their issue why do we even expect them to take action their lies the fault .....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

the problem with the world today is we seem to judge everything on what the US is doing , do have to have what US has, wear like them ,talk like them act like them and follow them in every respect , watch their movies and hate our own but then let us see

1. why are then we complaing that the US is not doing anything in this case the US is not the watchdog of the world The UN is but w have made the US the default watch dog and its not their fault they want to do as they think why should we complain then ..... its their independent policy no point abusing or pointing at them if they dont take action its their issue why do we even expect them to take action their lies the fault .....

The word had not made the US the 'watchdog', the US has made the US the world's 'watchdog', especially in the context of nuclear technology.

It is US led efforts that are focused on sanctions on various nations, and it is the US that led a war against a regime on the basis of 'WMD's'.

It is the US that continues to make arguments in favor and against various international issues on the basis of 'values, ethics and morality'.

And given global US economic and military clout, there just isn't any way to ignore them, that is the reality of the world today.

 

[Patriot]

Its worth mentioning that Israel tried to sell weapons Apartheid South Africa which had been under a UN arms embargo since 1965 and more of a pariah state.According to documents the man who tried to broker the deal is currently President of Israel!

 

[gambit]

The word had not made the US the 'watchdog', the US has made the US the world's 'watchdog', especially in the context of nuclear technology.

It is US led efforts that are focused on sanctions on various nations, and it is the US that led a war against a regime on the basis of 'WMD's'.

It is the US that continues to make arguments in favor and against various international issues on the basis of 'values, ethics and morality'.

And given global US economic and military clout, there just isn't any way to ignore them, that is the reality of the world today.

In the context of nuclear technology, the world considered the US-led NPT to be superior to the alternative, especially after the sudden collapse of the Soviet Union that produced unaccounted for nuclear weapons and weapons related technology.

 

[Moscow]

The word had not made the US the 'watchdog', the US has made the US the world's 'watchdog', especially in the context of nuclear technology.

It is US led efforts that are focused on sanctions on various nations, and it is the US that led a war against a regime on the basis of 'WMD's'.

It is the US that continues to make arguments in favor and against various international issues on the basis of 'values, ethics and morality'.

And given global US economic and military clout, there just isn't any way to ignore them, that is the reality of the world today.

exactly what i expected but then if the US cant be ignored then we must accept the reality making fun of US policies wont help then .... unless somebody is ready to take the initiative and raise a voice till then follow what they do, what they think fit in this case no point blaming the US for no action against israel

 

[T-Faz]

I love this, now US cannot say a word regarding China-Pak Nuclear deal. We are also increasing our nuclear capabilities for recognition as a true world power.

Sats Show Pakistan Super-Sizing Its Nuclear Weapons Complex | Danger Room | Wired.com

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

exactly what i expected but then if the US cant be ignored then we must accept the reality making fun of US policies wont help then .... unless somebody is ready to take the initiative and raise a voice till then follow what they do, what they think fit in this case no point blaming the US for no action against israel

I don't see people 'making fun' of US policies here - I see people criticizing what they perceive as double standards in US policies, and as common citizens, expressing our opinions on various fora (Cyber or otherwise) is a way of raising our voice.

If the reports of the Israeli offer are true, and US double standards on proliferation continue, then it is absolutely correct to 'blame the US'.

Why should we not highlight flaws in US policy?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A responsible nuclear power?​

The revelations of Israel's nuclear flirtation with South Africa will add weight to claims of double standards

Today's revelations about Shimon Peres' meetings with PW Botha to discuss missiles and warheads come at an extremely delicate moment at the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) Review Conference in New York. As the conference, aimed at repairing and updating the global arms control regime, the vexed issue of a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East.

At its heart, this is a matter of double standards. Egypt is leading a chorus of Arab and other non-nuclear states who want Israel to feel some of the pressure that Iran is undergoing, for its lack of transparency over its nuclear arsenal, and its efforts to maintain that nuclear monopoly in the region. As Chris points out in his piece, Israel's tacit defence, pursued on its behalf by its allies, has been that it - unlike Iran - is a 'responsible' nuclear power. Yet here you have Shimon Peres talking nukes with a nutcase white supremacist government.

Avner Cohen, the author of Israel and the Bomb, and the forthcoming The Worst-Kept Secret: Israel's Bargain with the Bomb, has taken issue with the headline of the piece.

While there is no doubt (as the documents point out) that there was a SA probe to Israel for nuclear weapons, which stimulates a certain opaque Israeli response made by the Israeli Minister of Defense, Shimon Peres, there is no proof whatsoever that Israel ultimately officially OFFERED those weapons to SA. In fact, I know that Israel did not: Israel neither offered and passed along nuclear weapons (and materials) nor weapons designs to the South Africans. Whatever the SA discussed among themselves in memos, and regardless of what Minister Peres told them, Prime Minister Rabin and the people in charge of the Israeli nuclear program (Mr. Shaleheveth Freier) were never willing to pass along weapons components and/or designs to the SA. Nothing like that ever formally offered to SA, regardless of Peres' reference to the "correct warhead." At the end of the day South Africa did not ask and Israel did not offer the "correct payloads.". Israel did behave as a responsible nuclear state.​

Chris points out in his piece that it was not clear whether Rabin would have signed off the deal, but it seems to me if you have the defence minister telling PW Botha that "the correct payload was available in three sizes" that amounts to an informal offer, a preliminary offer, whether or not it was finally consummated as "an official offer'. We are talking about a defence minister here, not some deniable intermediary. If I walked to buy a car from a company salesman and was told it was "available in three sizes", I would take it that it was for sale.

Meanwhile, back at the NPT, Rebecca Johnson of the Acronym Institute reports on the state of play at the NPT conference. Here is her section on the draft resolution on the Middle East zone.

This draft recognises the critical importance of the 1995 Resolution on the Middle East, notes the P-5 statement's commitment to its full implementation, and regrets there has been so little progress. The following practical steps are endorsed: an "initial conference" in 2012 convened by the UN Secretary-General and involving all states in the Middle East, and a Special Coordinator with a mandate to facilitate implementation of the 1995 Resolution, conduct consultations and undertake preparations for the Conference and, importantly, "follow-on steps", with reports to be provided to NPT states parties at the 2012, 2013 and 2014 PrepComs. The draft seeks a middle way between the Arab states' desire for a negotiating conference and the US view that this would be premature, by describing the purpose of the Conference as "leading to the establishment of a Middle East zone free of nuclear weapons and all other weapons of mass destruction, on the basis of arrangements freely arrived at by the States of the region..." In addition to recognising the importance of the draft proposed "complementary steps" such as an EU-hosted event and background documentation regarding verification. It also emphasises the importance of "parallel progress, in substance and timing" relating to achieving total and complete elimination of all nuclear, chemical and biological weapons from the region.​

A responsible nuclear power? | World news | guardian.co.uk