Israel Has No Right To Exist

[nirreich]

Very sad that Israelis abuse others in the same way as they have been abused.

Extensive research has been carried out that paedophiles and other such abusers themselves have been abused when they were children.

I think we need to look at Israelis and their actions in this manner. I would say that Zionists are suffering an illness and maybe they need medical attention and corrective therapy so they can join the rest of us as normal well adjusted human beings

The "abused" Palestinians have better life than the people of Pakistan. Maybe your country and some of its people need a constant mental care.

 

[Black Widow]

You should improve your knowledge about the history of your own region before lecturing Israel and about other conflicts.

As it is well known every princely state in British Raj had three options and one of them was to stay independent. Pakistan invaded to Kashmir and did not let it be independent. So Pakistan has an occupation in Kashmir and should withdraw from this region. Otherwise, it has no right to exist.

And of course there was no Palestinian state, not before 1945 and not before 1345, and not under to Ottoman Empire. The Palestinians defined themselves as a nation only in the 1920's (!) so how could there be a Palestinian state earlier???

You are little misinformed here, Let me rectify it. Mountbaiten first plan was same what you mentioned, Later under Nehru-Patel Diplomacy, the final plan was like this.
1. There will be two dominial state will be carved out of India one will be for Muslims (Name Pakistan) another will be for Muslim+hindu+sikhs+other religion.
2. The princely state had 2 choice, Either they can merge to India, or Pakistan (Though there was no strict time line). There was no option for them to stay independent.
3. India stand was clear, you can not stand Independent, Though India has not given any time line, Sikkim accede to India many years after independence.


@Kashmir: Kashmir's King was undecided to go for India or Pakistan, Both nations were persuading him to join. Kashmir's king was asking much more from India to accede (which obviously we were not agree to). Indian forces were placed in Punjab, None of Indian army were present in Kashmir.

In the mean time Pakistani sent regular army and Terrorists in Kashmir, Entering Kashmir, these terrorists start looting local ppl, start raping them (refer Nazam sethi discussion TV). Hari singh was shocked and he saw he will loose everything, He accedes to India.

After treaty was signed Indian Army went into Kashmir and liberated some part of It.

Indian Loss: We lost Gilgit Baltistan, P-O--K.
Pakistani Loss:Hari singh was greedy, if Pakistani were offered him well and not hurried to plunder Kashmiri, They would have gained I-O-K Laddak and even jammu.

 

[nirreich]

You are little misinformed here, Let me rectify it. Mountbaiten first plan was same what you mentioned, Later under Nehru-Patel Diplomacy, the final plan was like this.
1. There will be two dominial state will be carved out of India one will be for Muslims (Name Pakistan) another will be for Muslim+hindu+sikhs+other religion.
2. The princely state had 2 choice, Either they can merge to India, or Pakistan (Though there was no strict time line). There was no option for them to stay independent.
3. India stand was clear, you can not stand Independent, Though India has not given any time line, Sikkim accede to India many years after independence.


@Kashmir: Kashmir's King was undecided to go for India or Pakistan, Both nations were persuading him to join. Kashmir's king was asking much more from India to accede (which obviously we were not agree to). Indian forces were placed in Punjab, None of Indian army were present in Kashmir.

In the mean time Pakistani sent regular army and Terrorists in Kashmir, Entering Kashmir, these terrorists start looting local ppl, start raping them (refer Nazam sethi discussion TV). Hari singh was shocked and he saw he will loose everything, He accedes to India.

After treaty was signed Indian Army went into Kashmir and liberated some part of It.

Indian Loss: We lost Gilgit Baltistan, P-O--K.
Pakistani Loss:Hari singh was greedy, if Pakistani were offered him well and not hurried to plunder Kashmiri, They would have gained I-O-K Laddak and even jammu.

Thnx for the clarification, the point still stands that Pakistan is occupying Kashmir against the partition framework and against international resolutions.

 

[Black Widow]

Some Historical Facts




Mountbatten's first proposed solution for the Indian subcontinent, known as the 'May Plan', was rejected by Congress leader Jawaharlal Nehru on the grounds it would cause the 'balkanisation of India'. The following month the 'May Plan' was substituted for the 'June Plan', in which provinces would have to choose between India and Pakistan. Bengal and Punjab both voted for partition.



The actual division between the two new dominions was accomplished according to what has come to be known as the 3 June Plan or Mountbatten Plan. It was announced at a press conference by Mountbatten on 4 June 1947, and the date of independence was also announced – 15 August 1947.The main points of the plan were:
Hindus and Muslims in Punjab and Bengal legislative assemblies would meet and vote for partition. If a simple majority of either group wanted partition, then these provinces would be divided.
Sindh was to take its own decision.
The fate of North West Frontier Province and Sylhet district of Bengal was to be decided by a referendum.
India would be free by 15 August 1947.
Independence of princely states were ruled out. They would either join India or Pakistan. Independence for Bengal also ruled out.
A boundary commission to be set up in case of partition.



@ topic: For rest part I agree with you.

 

[Black Widow]

Very sad that Israelis abuse others in the same way as they have been abused.

Extensive research has been carried out that paedophiles and other such abusers themselves have been abused when they were children.

I think we need to look at Israelis and their actions in this manner. I would say that Zionists are suffering an illness and maybe they need medical attention and corrective therapy so they can join the rest of us as normal well adjusted human beings

You know Aryan, Yesterday I was listening to Nazam sethi, He quoted "The days of Numeric supremacy are over." It means now head count doesn't matter. Quality matters. The Scientific achievement have have neglected the century old quantity theory.

No matter how big Muslim world be, You can not defeat a small nation who is technologically superior. The only solution possible is to come at negotiation table and give them respect and their rights.

Muslims claimed my Homeland and your ancestors got a nation called Pakistan. So on the same basis why not Jews??? Muslims has right Non Muslims has not??? refer the map i posted in earlier post, jews has only 1% what Arab have, still Arabs want that land to be snatched???


The best solution is settle the Arabs (Palestanians ) to some other country and ask Israel to componset them. Israel will consider it cheap deal. (Any thing is cheap which is dealt for peace)

 

[lem34]

You know Aryan, Yesterday I was listening to Nazam sethi, He quoted "The days of Numeric supremacy are over." It means now head count doesn't matter. Quality matters. The Scientific achievement have have neglected the century old quantity theory.

No matter how big Muslim world be, You can not defeat a small nation who is technologically superior. The only solution possible is to come at negotiation table and give them respect and their rights.

As a Muslim you have right over my Homeland and your ancestors got a nation called Pakistan. So on the same basis why not Jews??? Muslims has right Non Muslims has not??? refer the map i posted in earlier post, jews has only 1% what Arab have, still Arabs want that land to be snatched???


The best solution is settle the Arabs (Palestanians ) to some other country and ask Israel to componset them. Israel will consider it cheap deal. (Any thing is cheap which is dealt for peace)

Of course it applies to India too lol a nation of 1.2 billion Indians looking to assistance from Israelis at kargill lol

Excuse Me, But Israel Has No Right To Exist
Excuse Me, But Israel Has No Right To Exist | Al Akhbar English

By Sharmine Narwani


The phrase “right to exist” entered my consciousness in the 1990s just as the concept of the two-state solution became part of our collective lexicon. In any debate at university, when a Zionist was out of arguments, those three magic words were invoked to shut down the conversation with an outraged, “are you saying Israel doesn’t have the right to exist??”

Of course you couldn’t challenge Israel’s right to exist – that was like saying you were negating a fundamental Jewish right to have…rights, with all manner of Holocaust guilt thrown in for effect.

Except of course the Holocaust is not my fault – or that of Palestinians. The cold-blooded program of ethnically cleansing Europe of its Jewish population has been so callously and opportunistically utilized to justify the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arab nation, that it leaves me utterly unmoved. I have even caught myself – shock - rolling my eyes when I hear Holocaust and Israel in the same sentence.

What moves me instead in this post-two-state era, is the sheer audacity of Israel even existing.

What a fantastical idea, this notion that a bunch of rank outsiders from another continent could appropriate an existing, populated nation for themselves – and convince the “global community” that it was the moral thing to do. I’d laugh at the chutzpah if this wasn’t so serious.

Even more brazen is the mass ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinian population by persecuted Jews, newly arrived from their own experience of being ethnically cleansed.

But what is truly frightening is the psychological manipulation of the masses into believing that Palestinians are somehow dangerous – “terrorists” intent on “driving Jews into the sea.” As someone who makes a living through words, I find the use of language in creating perceptions to be intriguing. This practice – often termed “public diplomacy” has become an essential tool in the world of geopolitics. Words, after all, are the building blocks of our psychology.

Take, for example, the way we have come to view the Palestinian-Israeli “dispute” and any resolution of this enduring conflict. And here I borrow liberally from a previous article of mine…

The United States and Israel have created the global discourse on this issue, setting stringent parameters that grow increasingly narrow regarding the content and direction of this debate. Anything discussed outside the set parameters has, until recently, widely been viewed as unrealistic, unproductive and even subversive.

Participation in the debate is limited only to those who prescribe to its main tenets: the acceptance of Israel, its regional hegemony and its qualitative military edge; acceptance of the shaky logic upon which the Jewish state's claim to Palestine is based; and acceptance of the inclusion and exclusion of certain regional parties, movements and governments in any solution to the conflict.

Words like dove, hawk, militant, extremist, moderates, terrorists, Islamo-fascists, rejectionists, existential threat, holocaust-denier, mad mullah determine the participation of solution partners -- and are capable of instantly excluding others.

Then there is the language that preserves "Israel's Right To Exist" unquestioningly: anything that invokes the Holocaust, anti-Semitism and the myths about historic Jewish rights to the land bequeathed to them by the Almighty – as though God was in the real-estate business. This language seeks not only to ensure that a Jewish connection to Palestine remains unquestioned, but importantly, seeks to punish and marginalize those who tackle the legitimacy of this modern colonial-settler experiment.

But this group-think has led us nowhere. It has obfuscated, distracted, deflected, ducked, and diminished, and we are no closer to a satisfactory conclusion…because the premise is wrong.

There is no fixing this problem. This is the kind of crisis in which you cut your losses, realize the error of your ways and reverse course. Israel is the problem. It is the last modern-day colonial-settler experiment, conducted at a time when these projects were being unraveled globally.

There is no “Palestinian-Israeli conflict” – that suggests some sort of equality in power, suffering, and negotiable tangibles, and there is no symmetry whatsoever in this equation. Israel is the Occupier and Oppressor; Palestinians are the Occupied and Oppressed. What is there to negotiate? Israel holds all the chips. They can give back some land, property, rights, but even that is an absurdity – what about everything else? What about ALL the land, property and rights? Why do they get to keep anything – how is the appropriation of land and property prior to 1948 fundamentally different from the appropriation of land and property on this arbitrary 1967 date?

Why are the colonial-settlers prior to 1948 any different from those who colonized and settled after 1967?

Let me correct myself. Palestinians do hold one chip that Israel salivates over – the one big demand at the negotiating table that seems to hold up everything else. Israel craves recognition of its “right to exist.”

But you do exist - don’t you, Israel?

Israel fears “delegitimization” more than anything else. Behind the velvet curtain lies a state built on myths and narratives, protected only by a military behemoth, billions of dollars in US assistance and a lone UN Security Council veto. Nothing else stands between the state and its dismantlement. Without these three things, Israelis would not live in an entity that has come to be known as the “least safe place for Jews in the world.”

Strip away the spin and the gloss, and you quickly realize that Israel doesn’t even have the basics of a normal state. After 64 years, it doesn’t have borders. After six decades, it has never been more isolated. Over half a century later, and it needs a gargantuan military just to stop Palestinians from walking home.

Israel is a failed experiment. It is on life-support – pull those three plugs and it is a cadaver, living only in the minds of some seriously deluded foreigners who thought they could pull off the heist of the century.

The most important thing we can do as we hover on the horizon of One State is to shed the old language rapidly. None of it was real anyway – it was just the parlance of that particular “game.” Grow a new vocabulary of possibilities – the new state will be the dawn of humanity’s great reconciliation. Muslims, Christians and Jews living together in Palestine as they once did.

Naysayers can take a hike. Our patience is wearing thinner than the walls of the hovels that Palestinian refugees have called “home” for three generations in their purgatory camps.

These universally exploited refugees are entitled to the nice apartments – the ones that have pools downstairs and a grove of palm trees outside the lobby. Because the kind of compensation owed for this failed western experiment will never be enough.

And no, nobody hates Jews. That is the fallback argument screeched in our ears – the one “firewall” remaining to protect this Israeli Frankenstein. I don’t even care enough to insert the caveats that are supposed to prove I don’t hate Jews. It is not a provable point, and frankly, it is a straw man of an argument. If Jews who didn’t live through the Holocaust still feel the pain of it, then take that up with the Germans. Demand a sizeable plot of land in Germany – and good luck to you.

For anti-Semites salivating over an article that slams Israel, ply your trade elsewhere – you are part of the reason this problem exists.

Israelis who don’t want to share Palestine as equal citizens with the indigenous Palestinian population – the ones who don’t want to relinquish that which they demanded Palestinians relinquish 64 years ago - can take their second passports and go back home. Those remaining had better find a positive attitude – Palestinians have shown themselves to be a forgiving lot. The amount of carnage they have experienced at the hands of their oppressors – without proportional response – shows remarkable restraint and faith.

This is less the death of a Jewish state than it is the demise of the last remnants of modern-day colonialism. It is a rite of passage – we will get through it just fine. At this particular precipice in the 21st century, we are all, universally, Palestinian – undoing this wrong is a test of our collective humanity, and nobody has the right to sit this one out.

Israel has no right to exist. Break that mental barrier and just say it: “Israel has no right to exist.” Roll it around your tongue, tweet it, post it as your Facebook status update – do it before you think twice. Delegitimization is here – have no fear. Palestine will be less painful than Israel ever was.

Guys do not allow Israelis and others to derail this thread. Clearly Longbrained has hit a raw nerve have you noticed we have had a lot of Israelis on here trying to derail this thread. We must reasert that there is nothing whatsoever wrong in questioning Israels right to exist

 

[nirreich]

You know Aryan, Yesterday I was listening to Nazam sethi, He quoted "The days of Numeric supremacy are over." It means now head count doesn't matter. Quality matters. The Scientific achievement have have neglected the century old quantity theory.

No matter how big Muslim world be, You can not defeat a small nation who is technologically superior. The only solution possible is to come at negotiation table and give them respect and their rights.

Muslims claimed my Homeland and your ancestors got a nation called Pakistan. So on the same basis why not Jews??? Muslims has right Non Muslims has not??? refer the map i posted in earlier post, jews has only 1% what Arab have, still Arabs want that land to be snatched???


The best solution is settle the Arabs (Palestanians ) to some other country and ask Israel to componset them. Israel will consider it cheap deal. (Any thing is cheap which is dealt for peace)

Of course Israel is ready give some sort of compensation to the Palestinians who left their homes in 1948, there is no Israeli demand, and there will never be one, for Palestinians currently living in Israel or in the West Bank/Gaza to leave.

Of course it applies to India too lol a nation of 1.2 billion Indians looking to assistance from Israelis at kargill lol



Guys do not allow Israelis and others to derail this thread. Clearly Longbrained has hit a raw nerve have you noticed we have had a lot of Israelis on here trying to derail this thread. We must reasert that there is nothing whatsoever wrong in questioning Israels right to exist

You failed answering the criticism on your post that there is no connection between the Holocaust and the legitimacy of Israel.

 

[Black Widow]

Of course it applies to India too lol a nation of 1.2 billion Indians looking to assistance from Israelis at kargill lol

Is this How 12,000 posts accumulated?? And yes, We are inferior in technology (compared to Israeli, Americans and Europe) and I don't feel ashamed to say it. We are walking in right direction and by God one day we will achieve the Target.

But the larger question I asked, does Lush green Arab world really want to solve this issue??? As "Nirreich" mention in Post#157 that Israelies will compensate Palestanians for peace.

 

[KRAIT]

Is this How 12,000 posts accumulated?? And yes, We are inferior in technology (compared to Israeli, Americans and Europe) and I don't feel ashamed to say it. We are walking in right direction and by God one day we will achieve the Target.

But the larger question I asked, does Lush green Arab world really want to solve this issue??? As "Nirreich" mention in Post#157 that Israelies will compensate Palestanians for peace.

Actually that's EXACTLY how he accumulated.

 

[lem34]

But you do exist - don’t you, Israel?

Israel fears “delegitimization” more than anything else. Behind the velvet curtain lies a state built on myths and narratives, protected only by a military behemoth, billions of dollars in US assistance and a lone UN Security Council veto. Nothing else stands between the state and its dismantlement. Without these three things, Israelis would not live in an entity that has come to be known as the “least safe place for Jews in the world.”

Strip away the spin and the gloss, and you quickly realize that Israel doesn’t even have the basics of a normal state. After 64 years, it doesn’t have borders. After six decades, it has never been more isolated. Over half a century later, and it needs a gargantuan military just to stop Palestinians from walking home.

Israel is a failed experiment. It is on life-support – pull those three plugs and it is a cadaver, living only in the minds of some seriously deluded foreigners who thought they could pull off the heist of the century.

The most important thing we can do as we hover on the horizon of One State is to shed the old language rapidly. None of it was real anyway – it was just the parlance of that particular “game.” Grow a new vocabulary of possibilities – the new state will be the dawn of humanity’s great reconciliation. Muslims, Christians and Jews living together in Palestine as they once did.

I think this is so true. When America goes bankrupt and it will the life support system will be disconnected. We must not forget that this status quo does not suit a Israelis either which has become polarised as we saw by the demonstrations in the last 12 months

 

[Zabaniyah]

Of course it applies to India too lol a nation of 1.2 billion Indians looking to assistance from Israelis at kargill lol

Irrelevant.

Guys do not allow Israelis and others to derail this thread. Clearly Longbrained has hit a raw nerve have you noticed we have had a lot of Israelis on here trying to derail this thread. We must reasert that there is nothing whatsoever wrong in questioning Israels right to exist

I really doubt that. Especially since the article wasn't written by him.

It was written by Sharmine Narwani, who writes a lot of articles about the Middle East. And critical of Israel.

Now imagine if that'd been the other way around in any Muslim-majority country (for the most part)?

 

[nirreich]

I think this is so true. When America goes bankrupt and it will the life support system will be disconnected. We must not forget that this status quo does not suit a Israelis either which has become polarised as we saw by the demonstrations in the last 12 months

Very amusing, Israel will last for a very long time, might even more than Pakistan...

 

[United]

The "abused" Palestinians have better life than the people of Pakistan. Maybe your country and some of its people need a constant mental care.

"It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!"

Muslims believe in this tats why we r still fighting u and ur puppets.

Cry all u want jew 4 Pakistan is ur worst Night mare.

 

[nirreich]

"It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!"

Muslims believe in this tats why we r still fighting u and ur puppets.

Cry all u want jew 4 Pakistan is ur worst Night mare.

A very articulated reply which answered all my misgivings. I am totally convinced now that Israel has no right to exist.

 

[lem34]

"It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!"

Muslims believe in this tats why we r still fighting u and ur puppets.

Cry all u want jew 4 Pakistan is ur worst Night mare.

You mean Zionists. Jews Muslims and others lived in Palestine peacefully before the Zionists came

Very amusing, Israel will last for a very long time, might even more than Pakistan...

Thats what the crusaders thought when they were in Jerusalem after 70 years. 30 years later they were just a footnote in history