Israel confiscates 1,000 acres of Palestinian land south of Bethlehem

[flamer84]

OFFTOPIC. Sorry for pulling the thread out of its content.

If Crusades would not have happened, Byzantium would have fallen sooner. Before 1096, Turks had occupied Izmir (smyrna), and Iznik (Nicaea). Turks even prepared a fleet to lay siege on Straits under the command of Chaka Beg. But Crusaders pushed Turks back to Konya (Iconium) after 1096.

Nicaea was retaken only in early 14th century. Between 1300-1320, forgot the exact date. And Izmir/Smyrna was retaken by Tamerlane from Knights of St. John in 1402. That makes 200-300 years time to recover what was once lost.

Byzantium never recovered after the sacking in the fourth Crusade and got divided in tiny statelets.Yes,the first ones helped them but the 4th delivered a crushing blow.All in all,from a tactical point of view the Crusades were only a nuisance to the muslim world but were a decisive blow to Eastern Christiandome.

 

[C130]

Holy Land for...?

A more realistic option would be the Two-State solution with Jerusalem as an international capital since it's holy to more than one denomination.

there can only be one state and that's the Kingdom of Jerusalem.. Inshallah.
not just Jews nor the Muslims only hold claim.
the just and rightful Christian King will one day reclaim the Holy Land

 

[flamer84]

the just and rightful Christian King will one day reclaim the Holy Land

But which denomination ? Us orthodox were the first,under byzantine rule,catholic and other heretical sects must not be allowed into the city.You go pray in Rome to the seat of that red furry jester.

 

[Falcon29]

there can only be one state and that's the Kingdom of Jerusalem.. Inshallah.
not just Jews nor the Muslims only hold claim.
the just and rightful Christian King will one day reclaim the Holy Land

We can talk about that when the end times arrives.

Right now though, let's be realistic.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Byzantium never recovered after the sacking in the fourth Crusade and got divided in tiny statelets.Yes,the first ones helped them but the 4th delivered a crushing blow.All in all,from a tactical point of view the Crusades were only a nuisance to the muslim world but were a decisive blow to Eastern Christiandome.

Byzantine was weak by time of 4th Crusade, mate. Byzantine emperors (while there was no empire anymore) was asking aid from the pope. Byzantine defense collapsed one by one after 1071 Manzikert. Seljuks crushed Byzantine army everytime till Crusades. 1176 Myriokephalon war was the last battle in which Byzantine checked Turks and lost. Crusaders conquered a city without an army.

If it werent up to Crusades or Mongol invasion, flag of Islam would have swayed over the walls of Konstantiniyye much sooner. In history, we never see Byzantine as our equals, but rather Genghis Khan or Tamerlane as a force to be afraid of.

 

[asena_great]

like Baibars (Senior Leopard).

WTF the greatest muslem commander of Crusades history was sultan nur addin zangi

Indeed,but in hindsight i think the Crusades helped the Turks to.Who knows where Byzantium would have been if not for the 4th Crusade,so,you see,they were just as devastating to christians as they were to muslims.

if Crusades didn't happens seljuk empier could take all muslem and Byzantium lands Crusades just delayed turkish conquest

 

[flamer84]

Byzantine was weak by time of 4th Crusade, mate. Byzantine emperors (while there was no empire anymore) was asking aid from the pope. Byzantine defense collapsed one by one after 1071 Manzikert. Seljuks crushed Byzantine army everytime till Crusades. 1176 Myriokephalon war was the last battle in which Byzantine checked Turks and lost. Crusaders conquered a city without an army.

If it werent up to Crusades or Mongol invasion, flag of Islam would have swayed over the walls of Konstantiniyye much sooner. In history, we never see Byzantine as our equals, but rather Genghis Khan or Tamerlane as a force to be afraid of.

I disagree,the Army defending Constantinople during the 4th Crusade was larger,better prepared than the one defending it in 1453.The walls were in better shape to.I am still puzzled on how those rag tags breached the city.

 

[KingMamba]

Time for the one state solution and Jerusalem should be a city state of its own IMO.

 

[flamer84]

If it werent up to Crusades or Mongol invasion, flag of Islam would have swayed over the walls of Konstantiniyye much sooner. In history, we never see Byzantine as our equals, but rather Genghis Khan or Tamerlane as a force to be afraid of.

Well,Tamerlane did pull a number on you at Ankara.Love the episodes of the best Ottoman troops who fought the hardest there were actually the Serbs or how Europeans ferried fleeing Ottoman troops across the Bosphorus..."The devil you know...",and all.

 

[C130]

We can talk about that when the end times arrives.

Right now though, let's be realistic.

haha ok.
seriously wtf Israel stop taking their land

 

[Alienoz_TR]

I disagree,the Army defending Constantinople during the 4th Crusade was larger,better prepared than the one defending it in 1453.The walls were in better shape to.I am still puzzled on how those rag tags breached the city.

Crusaders were within the city mate. They entered the city, orthodoxs thought they wouldnt harm them. Then crusaders decided instead of going 2 thousand km to Jerusalem, they suddenly attacked city guards, plundered and raped locals.

Well,Tamerlane did pull a number on you at Ankara.Love the episodes of the best Ottoman troops who fought the hardest there were actually the Serbs or how Europeans ferried fleeing Ottoman troops across the Bosphorus..."The devil you know...",and all.

In Battle of Ankara, most of ottoman troops switched side. Actually, Turks joined Tamerlane while Serbs were slaughtered. Btw Tamerlane is a cultural Turk, you know.

 

[flamer84]

Crusaders were within the city mate. They entered the city, orthodoxs thought they wouldnt harm them. Then crusaders decided instead of going 2 thousand km to Jerusalem, they suddenly attack city guards, plundered and raped locals.



In Battle of Ankara, most of ottoman troops switched side. Actually, Turks joined Tamerlane while Serbs were slaughtered. Btw Tamerlane is a cultural Turk, you know.

Yes,but the Serbs ,and the Romanians btw , (Wallachians) did stood their ground for a time,even broke through the Mongol lines in some attacks while "loyal muslim troops" changed sides.The fact that the Serbs and Wallachians didn't and got slaughtered for it doesn't diminish their bravery and loyalty at that time.

 

[atatwolf]

I disagree,the Army defending Constantinople during the 4th Crusade was larger,better prepared than the one defending it in 1453.The walls were in better shape to.I am still puzzled on how those rag tags breached the city.

Crusades didn't mess up Byzantines. Crusaders were ragtag of Christian nutjobs. It was Byzantine failure of well thought out foreign policy, rampant corruption and mental degeneration that was the cause. Also their demise is thanks to their own military blunders. Greeks, if you want to see them as descendants of Byzantines(East ROMAN Empire), which I don't agree with by the way. Greeks were just peasant subjects of Byzantine Empire. They always put the blame of the demise of the Christian empire on a foreign cause. I disagree with that.

 

[flamer84]

Crusades didn't mess up Byzantines. Crusaders were ragtag of Christian nutjobs. It was Byzantine failure of well thought out foreign policy, rampant corruption and mental degeneration that was the cause. Also their demise is thanks to their own military blunders. Greeks, if you want to see them as descendants of Byzantines(East ROMAN Empire), which I don't agree with by the way. Greeks were just peasant subjects of Byzantine Empire. They always put the blame of the demise of the Christian empire on a foreign cause. I disagree with that.

This was ONE of the causes ofcourse.The Byzantines were in in a downward spirall for many years,in the end they were an Empire bound to fall.I'm actually amazed they've survived (if only in name) by 1453.If he wouldn't have been crushed at Ankara and the Ottoman Empire thrown in civil war,i think Bayazid would have taken the city himself.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Europeans always are tricksters, knowing they cant handle the situation in Mideast, they sent Jews to keep busy Arabs. All this holy land crap is bull-shyte.

Jews are new crusaders, and since they have candelabrum instead of cross, we call them zionists.

And Kurds... They are the new mongols. Collaborators of crusaders and armenians.