Israel concerned: Saudi Air Force to outnumber Israel's advanced US jet

[dani958]

simply we are one of the very few countries in the world that actually has money and not debt. Israel itself is highly dependent on American Military aid. Money talks louder than anything in this world. Companies will give a huge middle finger to "Israeli concerns" if shown the right amount of cash.

we want to sell too to gcc countries but we cant

buy how much you want you dont make anything at home like us you dont develop anything when oil money over well
will back to the desert with camels

 

[500]

Debka...

 

[Penguin]

DEBKAfile, Political Analysis, Espionage, Terrorism, Security

With its latest acquisitions from Washington and Europe, the Saudi Air Force will have more fighter-bombers of more advanced models that the Israeli Air Force. Deep concern over this was recently relayed by Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak to President Barack Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Defense Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta.
DEBKAfile's Washington and military sources that Israel made its concern known with the utmost discretion so as not to be seen as hampering the expansion of the Saudi Royal Air Force as Riyadh gets set to tackle Tehran should Saudi oil exports be sabotaged by Iranian attacks on its oil production or the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, its primary export outlet.

Last month, the US agreed to sell Saudi Arabia 84 advanced F-15SA fighter-bombers worth $29.4 billion. First deliveries are due in 2015. The package included the upgrading of 70 F-15 planes of the Saudi air fleet. Riyadhis also buying 72 advanced Eurofighter Typhoon fighter bombers. All in all, the oil kingdom will have the largest and most sophisticated fighter-bomber fleet in the Middle East.

Current IAF inventory is 83 F15 of various types

• F-15A "Baz" 16
• F-15B "Baz" 6
• F-15C "Baz" 17
• F-15D "Baz" 11
• F-15I "Ra'am" 25

Add to this 319 F-16 of various types.

• F-16A "Netz" 77
• F-16B "Netz" 16
• F-16C "Barak-2020" 78
• F-16D "Barak-2020" 49
• F-16I "Sufa" 99

Supported by 30 light attack capable Alenia Aermacchi M-346 Master/"Lavi"

And - in the near future - a substantial number of Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II stealth multirole fighter a.k.a. F-35I "Adir" (June 2016: 33 ordered and pending delivery through 2021, with an option for 17 more, all through the U.S. government’s Foreign Military Sales [FMS] program). Israel’s F-35 will be a significant addition to maintaining Israel’s qualitative military edge in the Middle East region, with its advanced capability to defeat emerging threats, including advanced missiles and heavily-defended airspace. M-346 will be used to train F-35 pilots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force#Current
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force#Future

Royal Saudi Arabian Air Force

• McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle Strike fighter
  • SA variant 84 (on order)
  • S variant 70 (to be upgraded to SA standard)
• McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle Fighter
  • C variant 70
  • D variant 16
• Eurofighter Typhoon Multirole fighter
  • T.2 variant 48 (on order)
  • T.3A variant 24 (on order)
  
  

  • 60 have been delivered as of June 2016
  • At least 24 aircraft will be at the Tranche 2 build standard
  • Only the last 24 aircraft will be built to Tranche 3 capability
  • A further 72 may or may not be up: Saudi Arabia was considering an order of 24 additional jets in the future, and while more recent reports suggest that number may be as high as 60 or 72, this may have been superseded by Saudi Arabia's decision in August 2010 to purchase 84 new F-15SAs
• Panavia Tornado
  • IDS variant 80 ( Being upgraded at a cost of $4.66 billion, to keep them in service until 2020.)

Supported by 51 BAe Hawk (29 Mk. 65/65A in service, further 22 Hawk AJT on order with delivery planned in 2016)

Note that the 84 F15SA are on order, as are the remaining 12 Typhoons i.e. not in current inventory. Also there is some possible trading-off between Typhoon and F15SA. Note that 80 Tornado IDS and likely also 70 F15C/D will be retired at some point in the not too distant future

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Saudi_Air_Force#Current_aircraft_inventory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado#Royal_Saudi_Air_Force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado#IDS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon#Operators
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon#Operators

The F-15C/D have been in service since early 1980s with the Saudi's and since 1977 with the Israëli's. I believe the latter have done more with theirs in terms of modernization and upgrading. Israel was the only operator to use and develop the air-to-ground abilities of the air-superiority F-15 variants, doing so because the fighter's range was well beyond other combat aircraft in the Israeli inventory in the 1980s. Israeli air superiority F-15 variants have since been extensively upgraded to carry a wider range of air to ground armaments including JDAM GPS-guided bombs and Popeye missile

 

[Natan]

Current IAF inventory is 83 F15 of various types
F-15A "Baz" 16
F-15C "Baz" 17
F-15B "Baz" 6
F-15D "Baz" 11
F-15I "Ra'am" 25

Add to this 319 F-16 of various types.
F-16A "Netz" 77
F-16B "Netz" 16
F-16C "Barak-2020" 78
F-16D "Barak-2020" 49
F-16I "Sufa" 99

Supported by 30 light attack capable Alenia Aermacchi M-346 Master/"Lavi"

And - in the near future - a substantial number of Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II stealth multirole fighter a.k.a. F-35I "Adir" (June 2016: 33 ordered and pending delivery through 2021, with an option for 17 more, all through the U.S. government’s Foreign Military Sales [FMS] program). Israel’s F-35 will be a significant addition to maintaining Israel’s qualitative military edge in the Middle East region, with its advanced capability to defeat emerging threats, including advanced missiles and heavily-defended airspace. M-346 will be used to train F-35 pilots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force#Current
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force#Future

It is safe to assume that most F-16A/B "Netz" retired from service, except from the 'Agressor' red squadron. Israel offers them to Bulgaria, Croatia, e.t.c.

And the M-346's are not in light attack configuration. Take them as pure trainers.

 

[Penguin]

It is safe to assume that most F-16A/B "Netz" retired from service, except from the 'Agressor' red squadron. Israel offers them to Bulgaria, Croatia, e.t.c.

And the M-346's are not in light attack configuration. Take them as pure trainers.

That would be a safe assumption. So, that makes 93 less F-16A/B "Netz" then, but still leaves 319-93=226 assorted F16s, including 99 F-16I. Interestingly, you are not also pointing to F15A/Bs Baz: are they not older and less capable than C/D?

As indicates M-346 is there to train F-35 and other pilots, mainly. As such, they support the effectiveness of other aircraft types.

However, In November 2015, it was reported that Alenia Aermacchi was close to finalising a combat-capable dual-role variant of the airplane. In late 2014, a series of armed tests involving the IRIS-T missiles took place. In 2015, an armed variant, designated as the M-346 LCA (Light Combat Aircraft), was offered to Poland; this reportedly included a capability of operating the Brimstone air-to-ground missile. So, imho, there is no doubt that this trainer can serve in a light attack role and I also have no doubt Israëli military industry can quite easily make such a capability available to IAF if Israëli DoD decides it wants it.

I don't see the Saudi Hawks as attack aircraft either. The AJTs/Mk. 165s would replace older mk65 models of Hawks in the RSAF inventory. Any and all armament is optional (but possible).

 

[dani958]

at least we have defence industry wich gcc dont

 

[Natan]

That would be a safe assumption. So, that makes 93 less F-16A/B "Netz" then, but still leaves 319-93=226 assorted F16s, including 99 F-16I. Interestingly, you are not also pointing to F15A/Bs Baz: are they not older and less capable than C/D?

As indicates M-346 is there to train F-35 and other pilots, mainly. As such, they support the effectiveness of other aircraft types.

However, In November 2015, it was reported that Alenia Aermacchi was close to finalising a combat-capable dual-role variant of the airplane. In late 2014, a series of armed tests involving the IRIS-T missiles took place. In 2015, an armed variant, designated as the M-346 LCA (Light Combat Aircraft), was offered to Poland; this reportedly included a capability of operating the Brimstone air-to-ground missile. So, imho, there is no doubt that this trainer can serve in a light attack role and I also have no doubt Israëli military industry can quite easily make such a capability available to IAF if Israëli DoD decides it wants it.

I don't see the Saudi Hawks as attack aircraft either. The AJTs/Mk. 165s would replace older mk65 models of Hawks in the RSAF inventory. Any and all armament is optional (but possible).

Well, yes, although F-15A/B's are older and somewhat less capable than C/D's, they are not about to retire soon. The entire Baz fleet (F-15A/B/C/D's) is supposed to get some new avionics (AESA radars, maybe) and remain in service.

The Israeli version of M-346's right now doesn't have radars. Instead it has 'virtual radars' - powerful radars on the ground provide relevant data to the aircraft as if they had their own radars. With 'virtual radars' a trainee get can any combat scenario in his cockpit with multiple virtual enemies and virtual partners of any types, specs, and skills - something that is difficult to achieve with real radars and dumb target drones. Though for real light attack role we'd need to put some real radars inside. Possible, but it would take some time and money if requested.

 

[Penguin]

Well, yes, although F-15A/B's are older and somewhat less capable than C/D's, they are not about to retire soon. The entire Baz fleet (F-15A/B/C/D's) is supposed to get some new avionics (AESA radars, maybe) and remain in service.

Interesting how that can apply to the older/st F-15s but not the older/st F-16s ...

The Israeli version of M-346's right now doesn't have radars. Instead it has 'virtual radars' - powerful radars on the ground provide relevant data to the aircraft as if they had their own radars. With 'virtual radars' a trainee get can any combat scenario in his cockpit with multiple virtual enemies and virtual partners of any types, specs, and skills - something that is difficult to achieve with real radars and dumb target drones. Though for real light attack role we'd need to put some real radars inside. Possible, but it would take some time and money if requested.

Hawk 100 has a usefull ground attack capability but - unlike Hawk 200 - no radar. Which mean: nice to have but not essential.

 

[dani958]

well weapons is not usefull id you dont know how to use him

 

[c-dome1]

keep driming we have 400 nukes and we can destroy all who try to atack us we have one of the best anti missle in the world wich arabs dont have if we die all arab world coming with us