Israeal, A knife in muslim world.

[wadawada]

Its just the Jeruselum they are after, otherwise what the hell are they gonna do with that barren desert. There are so many other islands or places in this planet earth where they can go. So there is never ever gonna be peace over there, because of that holy place. Muslims on the other hand cant leave it either.

what desert ? golan is water rich (liek the sheb'aa farms that the israelis will never give back, unless against a special offer). palestinian land is fertile and a great touristic (in theory) place. exept for the desert of nagav, many things can be done. ahh!! and teh minerals, and teh natural gaz latelyt discvered in gaza

 

[melb4aust]

what desert ? golan is water rich (liek the sheb'aa farms that the israelis will never give back, unless against a special offer). palestinian land is fertile and a great touristic (in theory) place. exept for the desert of nagav, many things can be done. ahh!! and teh minerals, and teh natural gaz latelyt discvered in gaza

Well i was unaware of all that, but you've gotta admit that main issue and the main purpose is one & only "Jeruselum", which they nor the muslims cannot leave. There is no point of fighting otherwise, as tens of other nations are willing to embrace jews, perhaps in order to boost thier economy.

 

[wadawada]

Well i was unaware of all that, but you've gotta admit that main issue and the main purpose is one & only "Jeruselum", which they nor the muslims cannot leave. There is no point of fighting otherwise, as tens of other nations are willing to embrace jews, perhaps in order to boost thier economy.

for the religious leaders ships in both communities, it is alQods/yerushalom.

for the antionalist leadership in both communities, it is land.

for the political leadership in both communities, it is who "win th egame".

for people in both communities, it is mutual hatered.

for the crazy psychopaths in both communities, it is who rules the world.

IMHO, the Vatican should invade jerusalem and impose it as an international buddist capital.


jews there won't leave, in part because they're born there, and in other part beceause they BELIVE it is theirs. same goes for palistenians.


the only viable solution is a REAL (catholic) christian invasion. the problem is that religious jews hate christianism, much more than islam !! and that christians have lost any kind of real existance. too bad.

 

[Averroes]

This shia sunni hatred has not been fueled by the wahabism but was started by Khomeini. Saddam didnot need wahabis to persecute shia's.

saddam was set up to counter islamic revolution. nothing to do with Shia & Sunni, now they're repeating this myth of a shia crescent and setting up saudi / egypt / jordan as their new saddam. Educate yourself, try Avi Shlaim, Mid-East history. During Imam Khomeini, banners of La Shia La Sunni were put up everywhere.

 

[wadawada]

saddam was set up to counter islamic revolution. nothing to do with Shia & Sunni, now they're repeating this myth of a shia crescent and setting up saudi / egypt / jordan as their new saddam. Educate yourself, try Avi Shlaim, Mid-East history. During Imam Khomeini, banners of La Shia La Sunni were put up everywhere.

in theory, yes.

like in theory, panarabism is secular. BUT panarabism needs islam as a territorial model, without too much islam as a political choice. (PS: islamic "sunni" empires spead onver large and different popualtions, ethnically. in teh whole history of islam, there was rarely an aim to ethno-culturally centralize it. contrary to panrabism.)

in practice, for sadam, its predecessor, allainces were necessary, and these alliances followed the ethnical pattern (saddam's tribe and friends, arabs, excluding kurds), then political pattern (panrabists, even the "other" movements of panrabists), then religious pattern (sunnis).

by the game of alliances, because of political stupidity of EVERYONE (no exception here: all islamic nations were, and many are still, uniquely stupid, strategiclly), a loose block of "arab sunnis", under the umberella and applause of usa/uk, have re-emerged, and that was easier to taget the "other" shiaa-"persian".


saddam was in theory secular. but when he wanted to use religion, he preferred sunnism rather than shiia.


you're 100% right: the myth of shiaa crescent is beign reactivated to serve the same "friends" of the normal middle easterner. in the arab media now (the most seen and more than half of whom are saudi or financed by saudia), "analysts" and some "journalists" repeat like parrots the magical discovery "hezbolla is shiaa, shiaa is iranian, iranian want war, war will destroy us, so iranian is evil etc..blah..."

strangly, lebanese medias, even the anti-syrian ones, keep relativly quiet about this "hezbollarianization" of the analysis.

these "leaders" (leading their harems ) don't want people to understand that iran, far from beign innocent, is not the problem , not the monster. seriously, when ALL the gulf states are full with americain army gear, do these people expect that the emergin iranian power would stay "cool" ?

if they want to limit the threat of shiaa or iran to their regimes (IF these threats exist !), they should begin to tell the amricains to go home.

PS: but there si a hope, and I begin now to understand something : the win, at least symbolic and politic, of hezbollah, is immunizing the arab nations for a war against both shiaa and iran. hezbollah have gained so much respect in teh WHOLE arab wrold that it would be suicidary now for any "leader" to play it a la saddam...if usa push their "friends" against iran, they shoudl be assured thet they'll loose their tyrants and risk a REAL new middle east...

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Wadawada,

Till 20 years ago I also believed that jews could be born from a jew mother till I got corrected. Jews can be converts now.
As I requested earlier, is your analysis based on what you have read or is it based upon personal information like working with jews or israelis.

If the muslims want to be successful nations, then they need to focus on their immediate nationhoods first. Their claims of islamic brotherhood reeks of deceit and deception. They are all talk.

I relate my muslim world to a bundle of ' DRIED SPAGHETTI ', PUT IT IN WATER AND THAT IS WHAT YOU GET. A SOGGY SOFT SHAPELESS MASS with no BACKBONE AND NO TEETH EITHER, TO BITE.

For how long have the pakistanis been talking about unity of the muslim world ----since independence. Why don't you people ask this question to yourself----why hasn't it worked if the idea is so noble.

You know why it hasn't worked----because there is a lie somewhere and when there is a lie in the system the building blocks cannot sustain the weight of the structure which comes crumbling down.

 

[wadawada]

Hi Wadawada,

Till 20 years ago I also believed that jews could be born from a jew mother till I got corrected. Jews can be converts now.

yes. and there are also anti-zionist jews. there are also ultraorthodox rabbis against israel.

yes, I said conversion exsits. but it is not very religious, not very well accepted, and is not the bassi to the laws of immigration to israel (alya) considred as the reference of "who is a jew".

the fact that they can, in some jewish sects (conservative jews if I remember, who are indeed liberal ?) accepts converts does not make it a majority case, nor give them any real importance, not by quality (converts ? rarely, in majority of religions, taken seriously) nor by quantity.

As I requested earlier, is your analysis based on what you have read or is it based upon personal information like working with jews or israelis.

also, your personnal experience is respectable. but here you're doing the argument of "experience is more true than theory", which is not necessary true.

please understand that i'm not anti-jewish, (nor pro). i'm just trying to stick to facts. of course, i may be fully wrong...

If the muslims want to be successful nations, then they need to focus on their immediate nationhoods first.

100% true.

but also : focus on one's immediate nation first does not exclude taking intoc account international events/forces.

this argument was very true when there were no world empires, no globalization...

now, it is no more true, but it remains necessary, as first priority.

after all, logic tell us that one must take care of hsi house first before criticizing or willing to help his neighbour...

Their claims of islamic brotherhood reeks of deceit and deception. They are all talk.

100% you know why ? because as you said, no one is interested i nreality, which is HIMSELF FIRST.

this illusion comes from the legacy of the islamic empire. empire is bad, destructive, bad managed, uncivilized and thus weak. empires exsited becasue teh world was simple, and even with that, empires collapsed easily. now, the 21st C. is the true world, as a big megalopolis. and now, thos without reason, logic, realism are condmened to fail, whatever their aim is ("good" or "bad").

there could be NO islam without nationalism. there is NO imperial-one-version-one-system islam. there are as many islams as tribes, with thei intrinsic forces and weakness, geopolitics, economy, history, interests. it is necessary to put islam into a nationalmist perspective and not this imperial illusion.

also, please do not confuse naive good willed people, who adopt this islamic brotherhood as a moral principle without beign able to achoeve it, and politicians, who use it as a tool, especially to hide their failures.

I relate my muslim world to a bundle of ' DRIED SPAGHETTI ', PUT IT IN WATER AND THAT IS WHAT YOU GET. A SOGGY SOFT SHAPELESS MASS with no BACKBONE AND NO TEETH EITHER, TO BITE.

100%.

the most important thing is: we do not need a backbone. as islam is not basically an ethic religion, not a chuirch-based religion, there is no need for islmaic backbone.

we need only a minimum solidarity and mutual respect. that is : NO MUSLIMS SHOULD HARM ANOTHER MUSLIM, whatever the problem or difference is. without that, ther would be no hope for anything.

For how long have the pakistanis been talking about unity of the muslim world ----since independence. Why don't you people ask this question to yourself----why hasn't it worked if the idea is so noble.

this is a naive idea. = superficial idea. superficial is stupid, stupid is weak and false. weak and false does not, will never work.

unity is a void word, a poetic word. what is unity ? what does it mean ? sacrifiying nations sovreignty to be rules under a greater "empire" ? destroyoing "frontiers" and states and living on a utopic land without state like hippies and anarchists ?

the politicians should not be considered as a source for wisdm not intelligence thier main job is manipulation, not strategy. militant politicians are an exception ,even if fanatism could make from them also blind, so stupid.

this is why all thos failed political declarations should not be used as a bassi to judge ideas and projects. these shoudl be judged by reason, objectivly, and not according to some national dreamer, power junkies or official idiot.

unity is logically false. humanly dangerous. islamically unecessary. unity lead to uniformity, and unifirmity is faschist. and faschism is ****. and the **** is weak.

solidarity works, is excellent. but here, to have solidarity, we have to apply wht you said: CONCENTRATE on one-self, to deveplopp one self. while keeping TWO things in mind: ONE) respect the solidarity, try to not hurt other muslims, and if possible, the less non-muslims (for ethnics and interests) - TWO) self interest shoudl not become an superficial world view, so keeping an eye on what happens is vital. especially that what happen OUTSIDE the nation could/will influence what happens INSIDE the nation.

You know why it hasn't worked----because there is a lie somewhere and when there is a lie in the system the building blocks cannot sustain the weight of the structure which comes crumbling down.

100%

in the political side, there are hypocrisies, manipulations, and thus lies.

in the strategic side, it is based on irrealist aims, false methods, un-scientific facts, and bad moral obejctives.


so we agree on 90%

 

[niaz]

I came across this article about why are Jews so powerful. It is reproduced below for the the benefit of fellow members.

Why are Jews so powerful? *

* *

By: Dr Farrukh Saleem

The writer is an Islamabad-based freelance columnist



Taken from a website: http://www.americancongressfortruth.com



Why are Jews so powerful?

There are only 14 million Jews in the world; seven million in the Americas,
five million in Asia, two million in Europe and 100,000 in Africa. For every
single Jew in the world there are 100 Muslims. Yet, Jews are more than a
hundred times more powerful than all the Muslims put together. Ever wondered
why?

Jesus of Nazareth was Jewish. Albert Einstein, the most influential
scientist of all time and TIME magazine's 'Person of the Century', was a
Jew. Sigmund Freud -- id, ego, superego -- the father of psychoanalysis was
a Jew. So were Karl Marx, Paul Samuelson and Milton Friedman.

Here are a few other Jews whose intellectual output has enriched the whole
humanity: Benjamin Rubin gave humanity the vaccinating needle. Jonas Salk
developed the first polio vaccine. Alert Sabin developed the improved live
polio vaccine. Gertrude Elion gave us a leukaemia fighting drug. Baruch
Blumberg developed the vaccination for Hepatitis B. Paul Ehrlich discovered
a treatment for syphilis (a sexually transmitted disease). Elie
Metchnikoffwon a Nobel Prize in infectious diseases.

Bernard Katz won a Nobel Prize in neuromuscular transmission. Andrew
Schallywon a Nobel in endocrinology (disorders of the endocrine
system; diabetes,
hyperthyroidism). Aaron Beck founded Cognitive Therapy (psychotherapy to
treat mental disorders, depression and phobias). Gregory Pincus developed
the first oral contraceptive pill. George Wald won a Nobel for furthering
our understanding of the human eye. Stanley Cohen won a Nobel in embryology
(study of embryos and their development). Willem Kolff came up with the
kidney dialysis machine.

Over the past 105 years, 14 million Jews have won 15-dozen Nobel Prizes
while only three Nobel Prizes have been won by 1.4 billion Muslims (other
than Peace Prizes).

Why are Jews so powerful? Stanley Mezor invented the first micro-processing
chip. Leo Szilard developed the first nuclear chain reactor. Peter Schultz,
optical fibre cable; Charles Adler, traffic lights; Benno Strauss, Stainless
steel; Isador Kisee, sound movies; Emile Berliner, telephone microphone and
Charles Ginsburg, videotape recorder.

Famous financiers in the business world who belong to Jewish faith include
Ralph Lauren (Polo), Levis Strauss (Levi's Jeans), Howard Schultz
(Starbuck's), Sergey Brin (Google), Michael Dell (Dell Computers), Larry
Ellison (Oracle), Donna Karan (DKNY), Irv Robbins (Baskins & Robbins) and
Bill Rosenberg (Dunkin Donuts).

Richard Levin, President of Yale University, is a Jew. So are Henry
Kissinger (American secretary of state), Alan Greenspan (fed chairman under
Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush), Joseph Lieberman, Madeleine Albright
(American secretary of state), Casper Weinberger (American secretary of
defence), Maxim Litvinov (USSR foreign Minister), David Marshal (Singapore's
first chief minister), Issac Isaacs (governor-general of Australia),
Benjamin Disraeli (British statesman and author), Yevgeny Primakov (Russian
PM), Barry Goldwater, Jorge Sampaio (president of Portugal), John Deutsch
(CIA director), Herb Gray (Canadian deputy PM), Pierre Mendes (French PM),
Michael Howard (British home secretary), Bruno Kreisky (chancellor of
Austria) and Robert Rubin (American secretary of treasury).

In the media, famous Jews include Wolf Blitzer (CNN), Barbara Walters (ABC
News), Eugene Meyer (Washington Post), Henry Grunwald (editor-in-chief
Time), Katherine Graham (publisher of The Washington Post), Joseph
Lelyyeld(Executive editor, The New York Times), and Max Frankel (New
York Times).

Can you name the most beneficent philanthropist in the history of the world?

The name is George Soros, a Jew, who has so far donated a colossal $4
billion most of which has gone as aid to scientists and universities around
the world. Second to George Soros is Walter Annenberg, another Jew, who has
built a hundred libraries by donating an estimated $2 billion.

At the Olympics, Mark Spitz set a record of sorts by wining seven gold
medals. Lenny Krayzelburg is a three-time Olympic gold medalist. Spitz,
Krayzelburg and Boris Becker are all Jewish.

Did you know that Harrison Ford, George Burns, Tony Curtis, Charles Bronson,
Sandra Bullock, Billy Crystal, Woody Allen, Paul Newman, Peter Sellers,
Dustin Hoffman, Michael Douglas, Ben Kingsley, Kirk Douglas, Goldie Hawn,
Cary Grant, William Shatner, Jerry Lewis and Peter Falk are all Jewish?

As a matter of fact, Hollywood itself was founded by a Jew. Among directors
and producers, Steven Spielberg, Mel Brooks, Oliver Stone, Aaron Spelling
(Beverly Hills 90210), Neil Simon (The Odd Couple), Andrew Vaina (Rambo
1/2/3), Michael Man (Starsky and Hutch), Milos Forman (One flew over the
Cuckoo's Nest), Douglas Fairbanks (The thief of Baghdad) and Ivan
Reitman(Ghostbusters) are all Jewish.

To be certain, Washington is the capital that matters and in Washington the
lobby that matters is The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or
AIPAC. Washington knows that if PM Ehud Olmert were to discover that the
earth is flat, AIPAC will make the 109th Congress pass a resolution
congratulating Olmert on his discovery.

William James Sidis, with an IQ of 250-300, is the brightest human who ever
existed. Guess what faith did he belong to?

Question:
So, why are Jews so powerful?

Answer: Education.





Why are Muslims so powerless?

There are an estimated 1,476,233,470 Muslims on the face of the planet: one
billion in Asia, 400 million in Africa, 44 million in Europe and six million
in the Americas. Every fifth human being is a Muslim; for every single Hindu
there are two Muslims, for every Buddhist there are two Muslims and for
every Jew there are one hundred Muslims. Ever wondered why Muslims are so
powerless?

Here is why: There are 57 member-countries of the Organisation of Islamic
Conference (OIC), and all of them put together have around 500 universities;
one university for every three million Muslims. The United States has 5,758
universities and India has 8,407. In 2004, Shanghai Jiao Tong University
compiled an 'Academic Ranking of World Universities', and intriguingly, not
one university from Muslim-majority states was in the top-500.

As per data collected by the UNDP, literacy in the Christian world stands at
nearly 90 per cent and 15 Christian-majority states have a literacy rate of
100 per cent. A Muslim-majority state, as a sharp contrast, has an average
literacy rate of around 40 per cent and there is no Muslim-majority state
with a literacy rate of 100 per cent. Some 98 per cent of the 'literates' in
the Christian world had completed primary school, while less than 50 per
cent of the 'literates' in the Muslim world did the same. Around 40 per cent
of the 'literates' in the Christian world attended university while no more
than two per cent of the 'literates' in the Muslim world did the same.

Muslim-majority countries have 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The
US has 4,000 scientists per million and Japan has 5,000 per million. In the
entire Arab world, the total number of full-time researchers is 35,000 and
there are only 50 technicians per one million Arabs (in the Christian world
there are up to 1,000 technicians per one million). Furthermore, the Muslim
world spends 0.2 per cent of its GDP on research and development, while the
Christian world spends around five per cent of its GDP.

Conclusion: The Muslim world lacks the capacity to produce knowledge.

Daily newspapers per 1,000 people and number of book titles per million are
two indicators of whether knowledge is being diffused in a society. In
Pakistan, there are 23 daily newspapers per 1,000 Pakistanis while the same
ratio in Singapore is 360. In the UK, the number of book titles per million
stands at 2,000 while the same in Egypt is 20.

Conclusion: The Muslim world is failing to diffuse knowledge.

Exports of high technology products as a percentage of total exports are an
important indicator of knowledge application. Pakistan's exports of high
technology products as a percentage of total exports stands at one per cent.
The same for Saudi Arabia is 0.3 per cent; Kuwait, Morocco, and Algeria are
all at 0.3 per cent while Singapore is at 58 per cent.

Conclusion: The Muslim world is failing to apply knowledge.

Why are Muslims powerless?
Because we aren't producing knowledge.

Why are Muslims powerless?
Because we aren't diffusing knowledge.

Why are Muslims powerless?
Because we aren't applying knowledge.

And, the future belongs to knowledge-based societies.

Interestingly, the combined annual GDP of 57 OIC-countries is under $2
trillion. America, just by herself, produces goods and services worth $12
trillion; China $8 trillion, Japan $3.8 trillion and Germany $2.4 trillion
(purchasing power parity basis).

Oil rich Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and
services (mostly oil) worth $500 billion; Spain alone produces goods and
services worth over $1 trillion, Catholic Poland $489 billion and Buddhist
Thailand $545 billion (Muslim GDP as a percentage of world GDP is fast
declining).

So, why are Muslims so powerless?

Answer: Lack of education.



Source:Sangkancil

 

[Spring Onion]

Nice article niaz. i have some greate ones sent by someone not a Muslism, about Israel but i dont know if i can post these here or not i mean i fear to get leashed by people or governments. im ready for that but thn i just want to make these authentic.

BTW Israel is also knife in US and its citizen's world

 

[Munir]

Ladies and gents. I hope you all stop bashing Israel. One can say Israeli politicians or military leaders are doing something that is not acceptable or wrong... But do not say things we do not like to hear abour ourself... If one Pakistani blows up trains in UK then not every Pakistani in the rest of the world is the same dangerous person. We do not want to be attacked that way. We do not attack others that way.

The bottum line is that every nation has its black pages. Some more some less. If you have to explain why Israel is wrong then use quantitative data or concusions based on facts. Thank you.

 

[Neo]

Ladies and gents. I hope you all stop bashing Israel. One can say Israeli politicians or military leaders are doing something that is not acceptable or wrong... But do not say things we do not like to hear abour ourself... If one Pakistani blows up trains in UK then not every Pakistani in the rest of the world is the same dangerous person. We do not want to be attacked that way. We do not attack others that way.

The bottum line is that every nation has its black pages. Some more some less. If you have to explain why Israel is wrong then use quantitative data or concusions based on facts. Thank you.

Fully agrees with Munir, lets not generalise here.
Thanks!

 

[Neo]

Munir Ji say Lady and Gentlemen if they are

Hey Modi thats what i wanted to ask can i post some very importanct stuff with links and sources about Israel although some very deep digged stuff.
its realy sacring material.
Can i

Jana Jee,

Go ahead, bring it on!
PFF encourges debates, specially when they're based on (news) articles provided with links.
Facts and opinions will follow as the tread evolves.
What Munir's trying to say is that critic should not be biased, we can discuss anything within the respectful boudries, even if it includes countries we donot recognise.

 

[Sid]

Very nice and informative article Mr Niaz. It is no secret that the Muslim world is found wanting when it comes to education. Simple result, illiterate masses following crazy Mullahs with their closed minds; not knowing what the truth is, not being able to analyze for themselves how things go in the world we live in.

We have choked 'culture' out of our lives to move towards puritan Islam at the behest of angry medieval Mullahs. We are scared to stand up to them and their handful band of extremist thugs. If we want to change ourselves and our societies. We need to get rid of this 'artificial' clergy which has propped itself up in recent years 'cuz frankly speaking, the real Islam doesn't have any clergy in it.

 

[MastanKhan]

Niaz and others,

This article is just good for the paper it is written on. It is not the lack of knowledge that is a problem with the muslims and it is not a lack of knowledge that is holding them back------but it is rather the lack of basic fundamentals of living human beings in the muslim world that should be the issue.

If knowledge was the issue, then the educated people in pakistan, who would be more knowledgeable, would lead into making things better for the people who are less educated----but you don't see that happening. It is a dog eat dog situation.

So, my advice to you guys who have been clapping hard at this article, should look somewhere else for the real problem.

 

[Spring Onion]

Now as far as problems to Muslims are concerned these arent due to lack of knowledge i think its the disunity which needs to be there to make Muslims powerfull in terms of their say in world affairs.