Islamic Shari'a Permits Normalizing Relations With Israel

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well considering Israel can seperate its population based on Palestinian majority / Jewish majorty
The problem will self resolve

2 State as discussed in 1993

Muslim world wait implememtation of 2 state , seperation which has been pending since 1993

Give control of Jerusalam to United nation force of 20,000 Soldiers and have them issue visiation Passes daily for religious visitors

End of story




Just corrected the graphics you posted obviously this will lead to a future conflict

Again , I think the issue was resolved in 1993 , and the world awaits Israel to finish with border setup and hand over Palestine their own state

Obviously it is ok for jews to have certain state hood once 2 state resolutions are done and implemented

Not sure what has this got to do with Sharia , provided Israel implements 2 state resolution , I don't see any conflict with Israel areas

Israel collected 50-100 Billion aid from USA since 1993 for accepting the 2 state solution

Very simple process , we are awaiting for Establishment of Palestine and ofcourse coming to understanding with state of Israel

 

[Sunan]

So am I.

Israel does not "illegally occupy" land; it's merely accused of doing so. The reason is that under Palestine Mandate Jews are explicitly encouraged to "closely settle" the area. That's the applicable law for the region, not Jordanian law or "Palestinian" law or anything the U.N. says, since the U.N. is disbarred from making such judgments under Article 80 of its charter.

The point that militant Arabs use their kids as human shields is still the same.

So that is what it takes...

You only learn to lie from your elders.you people were running around the world to save your A$$es from the christian world.Only Muslims gave you protection.Now you shamelessly occupy Muslims land and killing innocent peoples including Childrens.

It's a "waste of time" to listen to someone who insists on inaccurate labels in spite of the facts.

This isn't just an "Israel" problem. It's a "Pakistan" problem: your politics have been dominated by powerful personalities who led the country to disaster because they couldn't compromise, or insisted on consensus, rather than accept losing. That's how Pakistan became a military dictatorship under Ayub, that's why the 1965 war was fought, that's why 1971 became a bloodbath...you should be able to fill in the rest.

Al-Koda says "he was willing to risk his life and even the lives of his children in order to express his opinion." Do you consider yourself and the Pakistanis you know as strong or stronger than that?

Under the Palestine Mandate the Jews have political rights plus all the civil and property rights they enjoyed under the Ottoman tanzimat regime, whereas the Arabs of Palestine only have the civil and property rights; the Arabs of Palestine cannot claim more under international law without the concurrence of the Jews.

We know how much brave u people are,Who kill Childrens.The man is talking about Sudan,If they want relations with israel thats their problem not our.We Pakistanies dont want to racoganize butchers of childern called Israel.Zoinesm is a bastard child of Judaism,Even jews dont recoganize your state.So have discussion with jews first.

 

[Solomon2]

You only learn to lie from your elders.you people were running around the world to save your A$$es from the christian world.Only Muslims gave you protection.Now you shamelessly occupy Muslims land and killing innocent peoples including Childrens.

The fact that Muslims in the past gave Jews protection, is that supposed to give other Muslims the right to treat Jews badly today?

We Pakistanies dont want to racoganize butchers of childern called Israel.Zoinesm is a bastard child of Judaism

Pakistanis are sadly - and deliberately - misinformed about some basic facts. These facts are:

1) Jews are a people with Judaism as their religion, not the other way 'round.
2) Zion is the Jews' historical homeland, which Jews have re-settled not by "theft" but by land purchase, sovereign grant, or abandonment.
3) The return of Jews to their National Home was authorized under international law that the U.N. is forbidden to change under Article 80 of its Charter.
4) Jews - especially the Jews of Israel - have been the object of vicious and unjust verbal and physical assaults from ancient times to the present day and Pakistan has chosen to side with the unjust.

...Even jews dont recoganize your state. -

What does this have to do with sharia permitting normalizing relations with Israel?

 

[Avicenna]

Hey Solomon2! Are you ok with expanding the settlements? Are you ok with moving he capital to Jerusalem? Are you ok with the recent UN story with the Israelis and US advocating against the Palestinian for that position? Are you ok with the Israeli rhetoric against Iran painting them as an irresponsible actor and an existential threat? Just curious what your thoughts are.

 

[Solomon2]

Just corrected the graphics you posted -

You're allowed your own opinions but not your own facts.

Again , I think the issue was resolved in 1993 , and the world awaits Israel to finish -

Did you ever bother to find out what the Arabs were obliged to do - especially without qualification or excuse - under the Oslo Accords?

Obviously it is ok for jews to have certain state hood once 2 state resolutions are done and implemented

Like Jews weren't entitled to statehood before? Really, it's the other way 'round: under international law - the Palestine Mandate - it's the Jews who are entitled to political rights in Palestine, whereas Arabs are only entitled to civil and property rights. Furthermore, since the Arabs were obliged to respect Jews' civil and property rights outside of Palestine but manifestly did NOT, that makes the moral case for the Jewish State even stronger and pleas from Arabs for "justice" (as in eliminating the Jews from the middle east) weaker; they are turning the truth upside-down.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well generally speaking I fundamentally do not believe in unfairness.....
Jews have some religious needs in the area and it is understandable

The weapon difference between Palestine/Israel is tremendously one sided

I think 1993 since deal was struck it is time we move and finish the process
Bill Clinton really has some tremendous ideas and desire to solve the issue anad the leaders of the time made a good push

> Israel takes 60% West Bank fairly large habitable zone
> Gives up some area about same size to Palestinians
> Population swap

Jerusalam becomes UN occupied city (Only city in world to be managed by UN funding) they issue visas
for visitors to holy places , 30,000-40,000 visas per day

What I generally do not understand is that since Jews lived closely with Muslim civilizations in past , seems like a normal thing to do normalize relations

I think from Pakistan's prespective the 2 state resolution implementation
as agreed by Jews/Palestinians leaders in 1993 is the defecto moving forward point

Iseael Gets:
Region #1 West Bank 60% Till the UN border line, No need for encourchment build as you want (Generally good farm / residential zone)
Economic Ties : With All of Musim world, worth 100-300 Billion margin

Palestine Gets
Region #1 : Extended Gaza, coastline access may be 2 cities
Region #2 : New West Bank (40% of old and regions to south)
Region #3 : QUDS province (New one where relocating West Bank population will move into , makes up for some green area losses)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Region #4 : Desert Void Area (Generally inhabitable , but would need water canals)


You know out in the western side , folks go to sporting event they buy a ticket a middle person organizes the facility for sports you go there on time , do what you have to (watch sports) and come back happy

So why can't people just let Jerusalam be in UN's hands, apply for a daily pass like you buy a bus ticket , and then visit the place ? Seems like a very reasonable thing to do

From my side as example, if there was a mosque in lets say Hawaii if I go offer prayers , if it was run by Muslim country or United nation makes no difference to me as a visitor as long as I am treated with great amount of respect

 

[Solomon2]

I think 1993 since deal was struck it is time we move and finish the process

That "deal" was the Oslo Accords, which is founded on this statement of principle:

The Government of the State of Israel and the PLO team (in the JordanianPalestinian delegation to the Middle East Peace Conference) (the "Palestinian Delegation"), representing the Palestinian people, agree that it is time to put an end to decades of confrontation and conflict, recognise their mutual legitimate and political rights, and strive to live in peaceful coexistence and mutual dignity and security and achieve a just, lasting and comprehensive peace settlement and historic reconciliation through the agreed political process...​

Yet today the "Palestinian" leadership demands a Palestine devoid of Jews, that any Jewish rights are illegitimate, and that "reconciliation" cannot supersede "anti-normalization". In short, they consider Oslo was a trick, a deception to gain power without giving up any of their genocidal goals, and much of the world has chosen to humor them rather than call them out.

The weapon difference between Palestine/Israel is tremendously one sided

As it should be. What do you think "Palestinians" would do if they had more powerful weapons?

So why can't people just let Jerusalam be in UN's hands, apply for a daily pass like you buy a bus ticket , and then visit the place ?

The U.N.'s bias against Jews is obvious. In December the U.N. Security Council essentially adopted UNESCO's shameful stance, that Jews have no historical connection to Jerusalem. How likely is it, then, that with Jerusalem in the U.N.'s hands Jews would get a "bus ticket" to visit the Temple Mount? Or even their own homes? Indeed, how likely is it that U.N. forces would resist any armed attempt on the part of Muslims to drive them out and take over Jerusalem entirely? So advocating U.N. control of anything is just a means to undermine the Palestine Mandate and deprive Jews of their property and rights for the satisfaction and appeasement of bigots.

From my side as example, if there was a mosque in lets say Hawaii if I go offer prayers , if it was run by Muslim country or United nation makes no difference to me -

Keep in mind that the Temple Mount is currently run by the Jordanian-appointed Islamic waqf. Do you really think U.N. administration would be an improvement?

 

[Tshering22]

Oh my.... That de-escalated real quick.

Guys, is the use of religious laws justified to decide which country you can have a relation with?

Because Israel was not called Israel at that time but Judea.

 

[takeiteasy]

…Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust " (al-Maida, 51)

Christians and Jews must be made aware of these verses as well. Let them be reminded that a Muslim cannot be a friend or ally. (Hopes you get the sarcasm).

Let me show what Christians and Jews can show about Muslims using Bible:
Genesis 16:12
(The sons of Ishmael) "He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

 

[Eagle_storm]

Christians and Jews must be made aware of these verses as well. Let them be reminded that a Muslim cannot be a friend or ally. (Hopes you get the sarcasm).

Let me show what Christians and Jews can show about Muslims using Bible:
Genesis 16:12
(The sons of Ishmael) "He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

Aaah sure we do believe on One Allah Muhammad is his messenger..i should follow the orfer of Allah and teaching of prophet Muhammad saw. We don't need any israel or us friendship.we muslim will unite. Inshallah. So tell about it to everyone.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Considering Jews did live on Muslim lands side by side in Islamic civilizations, there is hardly any convincing debate about denial of relations as these were in past.

• Kindly review / Study role of Jews in Islamic civilizations where under many administrations the folks held prominent roles
• The roles of this group is not understood as that part of history is not taught in most schools or history.

It would be rather illogical that we had normal relations for 1000-1500 years and then suddenly in last 50 years or 75 years , suddenly we can't interact with certain Jewish groups.

Jews were generally removed from region to region in Roman era or other Christan era etc and in many cases these groups lived peacefully in Muslim land.

The misunderstanding we presently see in our present world , is a result an extreme view point in Israel , post world war 2 which perhaps does not reflects the general long term history between the two groups

The holy land has equal rights to be visited by all 3 faiths (Christians/Jews/Muslims)

And one can't just deny Jews right to visit their holy place by force that would be Un Islamic view

So in end there is only 1 reliaty and that involves a long term push towards a peaceful solution , 2 state seperation

Ideally the cotrol of Jerusalam handed over to UN body , every one visits the city with VISA

And that does not means forgetting Palestinians they are entitled to some land of their own to live peacefully

Such a simple seperation of two states would ensure all regions are connected and Palestinians will get some proper coast line by Sea and some green areas

While 60% of west bank goes to Israel , their population would be connected

• Palestinians would get region #3 and #4 and region #2 expanded
  
• Gaza would be expanded as shown in region #1

Obviously their Arab collegues can donate 10-30 billion to help develop region #4 by canals or artificial lakes

This is a real estate issue , and certainly odd that Trump is an expert in Real estate negotiations

The other view of the coin is ....stark and dark

 

[Tshering22]

What does this have to do with sharia permitting normalizing relations with

When too much religion is mixed with life, this is what happens.

 

[Sunan]

The fact that Muslims in the past gave Jews protection, is that supposed to give other Muslims the right to treat Jews badly today?

Pakistanis are sadly - and deliberately - misinformed about some basic facts. These facts are:

1) Jews are a people with Judaism as their religion, not the other way 'round.
2) Zion is the Jews' historical homeland, which Jews have re-settled not by "theft" but by land purchase, sovereign grant, or abandonment.
3) The return of Jews to their National Home was authorized under international law that the U.N. is forbidden to change under Article 80 of its Charter.
4) Jews - especially the Jews of Israel - have been the object of vicious and unjust verbal and physical assaults from ancient times to the present day and Pakistan has chosen to side with the unjust.

What does this have to do with sharia permitting normalizing relations with Israel?

What does it have to do with Pakistan recoganizing or not eecoganizing israel.I repeat if sudan wants it thats their problem now Ours.You should ask sudanies not us.Tell these nom sence to sudanies or Americans.We know you r illegially occoupy the Muslims land.No Muslim country treated you badly when your a$$ were kicked.Now u shamelessly occupy Muslim land.Dog is better then you atleast dog is fathefull.U r killing those people who gabe you shelter when u were kicked from all over the world.