Islam and science

[asaad-ul-islam]

An extremist muslim wants islam to take over the world. He thinks that non-muslims don't deserve to live, and should be either converted or killed.

i think every muslim wants islam to take over the world, but not by force. there is no ruling within the religion that forces the people to convert by threatening to kill them.

He thinks that a society without islamic law is a society at war with Islam.
He thinks that islam, and islam alone, is the solution to all the problems of the world.

i think every muslim thinks that islam alone is the solution to all problems.

On the other hand, some argue that even a large number of the so-called moderate muslims secretly with for an all-islam-only-islam world.

exactly, that's what we MUSLIMS would like. Unfortunately we know that's not feasible, some people won't see the Light. therefore, we just have to live with them peacefully and hope that they become interested with our religion.

how to do that? Akhlaq(Good Manners), Adaab(etiquettes), Da'wah(propagation/preaching), being Just(don't take bribes like many people in Pakistan do), and simply by being an example to follow.

 

[mujahideen]

Comeon Mujahideen. You know what the difference between moderate and extremist is very well. You are just covering your eyes and refusing to see the elephant in the room.
A moderate muslim is someone who is willing to acknowledge the existence and even the positive aspects of other faiths and ways of life. He is willing to live in a multi-cultural multi-religious society and try to integrate with it.
An extremist muslim wants islam to take over the world. He thinks that non-muslims don't deserve to live, and should be either converted or killed. He thinks that a society without islamic law is a society at war with Islam.
He thinks that islam, and islam alone, is the solution to all the problems of the world.
Both kinds of muslims exist. You know it, I know it. Trying to constantly prove that there are no extremist muslims is futile.
On the other hand, some argue that even a large number of the so-called moderate muslims secretly with for an all-islam-only-islam world.

This is exactly what I expected to hear.
In your eyes a moderate Muslim is someone who is willing to integerate with peoples of other religions and an extremist believe Islam is the solution to all problems. Now let me make this clear to you go to any Muslim a moderate or extremist they will tell you Islam indeed has the solution to all problems, they might not say it but they do believe it, but I dont want to get into this right now. Some people say extremist Muslims cant tolerate people of other religions, this is totally wrong, this is an aspect which the CIA put into our religion, when they needed us against the Russians. If they cant live with people of other religions, then why would the Prophet call Christians and Jews the "People of the Books." He gave us instructions not to do any harm to any non-Muslims. The Jews use to give him their money for safe keeping because they thought he was the most honest man in all of Arabia.
Today I can say their is no Muslim who would say that all non-Muslims should be killed. Today the media and our governments are giving us only one side of the arguement. What these people want is to be left alone and when someone interferes with them they revolt.
The point is we must look at both sides of the arguement.

 

[alibaz]

Today whole of the opinion is based on what we watch and listen on the media. The same people were Mujahideen a few decades ago. They can be good or bad, right or wrong. We have all the rights to disagree on the basis of what they are doing not on the basis of religion or some one is moderate or fundamintlist.

 

[alibaz]

Yes we all have heard of him .. and As you said he is one of those good Indians who knows how to make money

i have also heard him. i donot agree to last few words of your statement.

 

[Malang]

with all due respect, Mr. Zakir Naik is in the words of Mr. Khushwant Singh "an English speaking Maulana", Unlike Sir Syed Ahmed he is not a reformer which Muslims of the subcontinent deserve (to follow).

 

[alibaz]

with all due respect, Mr. Zakir Naik is in the words of Mr. Khushwant Singh "an English speaking Maulana", Unlike Sir Syed Ahmed he is not a reformer which Muslims of the subcontinent deserve (to follow).

Yes he is an english speaking Maulana but he is involved in preaching realigion and his job is very different than Sir Syed Ahmed Khan. One may have differences what he preaches but have no right to melign him.

 

[Malang]

Yes he is an english speaking Maulana but he is involved in preaching realigion and his job is very different than Sir Syed Ahmed Khan.

I think if someone needs ratification of an English speaker to follow some very old-fashioned, conservative, intolerant, radical, extreme, misrepresentative, medieval, etc. interpretations of Islam then he is the man. He is excellent source of fodder material for (young borderline radical/extremist/ignorant) muslims to debate.

It is besides the point that most moderate Muslims and non Muslims in India whom I have met (and who have heard of Naik) think him to be a part of the problem and not a solution.

I suggest you go through these 2 articles on Naik By Khushwant Singh...
Why Muslims lag behind- Hindustan Times
The Tribune - Magazine section - Saturday Extra- This Above All

For me to see Muslim youth following Naik is as stupefying as Hindu youths following VHP and Sikh youths following Bhindranwale etc. It is because of people like him that Muslims in India are lagging behind.

One may have differences what he preaches but have no right to melign him.

as for maligning him...
India is a place where except the constitution & supreme court (and maybe religious figures a la Prophets, Gods etc. due to chances of rioting) everyone/thing is fair game for scathing remarks and insults...

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

zakir naik is not an alim(scholar) to begin with. he's just knowledgeable, but that still does not make him an alim.

other than that, i don't see how his preaching "makes muslims backwards". First of all, he focuses on clearing up any false interpretations of the Qur'an, tear the Bible apart, and relate hinduism with islam. I have never seen him preach anything like that which people here are claiming, dr. naik is a debater.

 

[Malang]

zakir naik is not an alim(scholar) to begin with. he's just knowledgeable, but that still does not make him an alim.

Personally I have just seen 2 of his videos on youtube and it made me nauseate..

other than that, i don't see how his preaching "makes muslims backwards".

for eg. He advocates Muslim girls should wear the Hijab/Burkha(head-to-toe), should not act in movies, should not be air-hostesses etc. Now, for a conservative Muslim family this is the ratification they need to carry on their conservatism.

I don't know how if Muslim women wearing a Burkha in 2008 can hope to get equality or jobs or social upliftment?

Indian Muslims are not oil-well owners therefore for them to not let Muslim women work or not embrace the 21st century will make them lag even more behind. This will lead to more anti-social activities aka Mr. Naik is not the solution but a problem.

First of all, he focuses on clearing up any false interpretations of the Qur'an, tear the Bible apart, and relate hinduism with islam.

tear the bible apart? I mean for a religious preacher to indulge in mucking other religion is not acceptable behaviour, I have not heard of Sufis tearing apart other religions, Hindu preachers on TV do not tear apart the Quran.
and his arguments are amateurish.

I have never seen him preach anything like that which people here are claiming, dr. naik is a debater.

Check his videos, read his books.. & try reading the 2 artcles I posted earlier.
Mr. Naik is a "debater" because
1. No one wants to give him undue importance by actually debating with him.
2. His arguments are not even worth tearing apart, they are too amateurish.
3. Outside Mumbai, youtube and some Muslim localities.. not many people have heard of him.
4. He uploads his own videos, I mean why would he post videos where people trounce him?

 

[PeaceForAll]

i think every muslim wants islam to take over the world, but not by force. there is no ruling within the religion that forces the people to convert by threatening to kill them.


i think every muslim thinks that islam alone is the solution to all problems.



exactly, that's what we MUSLIMS would like. Unfortunately we know that's not feasible, some people won't see the Light. therefore, we just have to live with them peacefully and hope that they become interested with our religion.

how to do that? Akhlaq(Good Manners), Adaab(etiquettes), Da'wah(propagation/preaching), being Just(don't take bribes like many people in Pakistan do), and simply by being an example to follow.

Sir,

The whole Idea that every muslim thinks that Islam is the only solution.. same way, a catholic thinks that Catholicism is.. and a Hindu thinks hinduism is..

your point that 'unfortunately some people do not see the light' would refer to both sides of the wall. It means all other religious people live in darkness other than Islam.. and for me this istelf amounts to 'bad etiquette'.

rather, having respect to all people, irrespective of religion would be much more effective Imho.

 

[freeman]

Dont know why religion and science should even be discussed in the same sentence.
One is faith based the other is fact based.

Religion makes it difficult to even open your mind to other possibilities.

Take creationism for an example, are you allowed to believe in evolution while still remaining true to your chosen religion? How some people deny the theory of evolution is baffling, do you think all of a sudden, out of thin air animals like elephants and humans were just created?
Yes it is the theory of evolution, just like the theory of relativity, unless 1+1=2 then science has the obligation to add the world theory in front of it.

If somebody wanted to excel in science then religion needs to be ditched out the window

One day people will stop believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth fairy, maybe then we can all get along.

 

[malee]

First of All i would like to clear that in Islam there is no word like moderatism/Extremeism/Librerism in Islam Dictionary , we do what God (Allah) has ordered to do, Every person has equal right to live in this world like muslims, as far as existence is concern Islam accepts their existance, our history has several evidence that our Prophet (peach be upon him) has made certain Peace treaties/Alliances with other faiths neither Islam has refrain us from dealing (business or daily activities) from Non Muslims. Some peoples not loyal to islam are blemishing our image. Islam alway preaches peace, when someone lauches an assult on muslim either to capture their assets or whatso ever which may result in loss to Islam shall be dealt with Iron Hands and all muslims have their religious responsibility to help their brothers in trouble until the agresser quits from his assault.

I deny that muslim want all islam world it is a misconception God has commanded us to live and let other live peacefully. Further our God the Al-mighty Allah did not like peoples who speards thearts / riots in world which are clearly instructed in our Holy Quran

Thats all

Comeon Mujahideen. You know what the difference between moderate and extremist is very well. You are just covering your eyes and refusing to see the elephant in the room.

A moderate muslim is someone who is willing to acknowledge the existence and even the positive aspects of other faiths and ways of life. He is willing to live in a multi-cultural multi-religious society and try to integrate with it.

An extremist muslim wants islam to take over the world. He thinks that non-muslims don't deserve to live, and should be either converted or killed. He thinks that a society without islamic law is a society at war with Islam.
He thinks that islam, and islam alone, is the solution to all the problems of the world.

Both kinds of muslims exist. You know it, I know it. Trying to constantly prove that there are no extremist muslims is futile.

On the other hand, some argue that even a large number of the so-called moderate muslims secretly with for an all-islam-only-islam world.

 

[malee]

I agree with you every person believes that his faith is right and it should be the only solution. But my friend God has given us brain one must use it to find the right way, Today every religion has its own religious books (i.e Geeta, Bible Quran etc.) but my friend the real faith is one which came from God itsself not by ourselves, every one should himself is responsibles for his deeds.

As far as your last point is concerned that other religious peoples live in darkness is another chapter.

Sir,

The whole Idea that every muslim thinks that Islam is the only solution.. same way, a catholic thinks that Catholicism is.. and a Hindu thinks hinduism is..

your point that 'unfortunately some people do not see the light' would refer to both sides of the wall. It means all other religious people live in darkness other than Islam.. and for me this istelf amounts to 'bad etiquette'.

rather, having respect to all people, irrespective of religion would be much more effective Imho.

 

[malee]

As a matter of fact yes Islam is the solution leading toward happy and prosperious life. We do acknoledge and respect other faiths as far as acknowledge of positive aspects of other religions are concerned my freind can you tell me a single positive aspect in your or any other religion not in Islam? Any single one please reply.

Now a days we are all victims of certain diasters (inflation, riots etc) caused by following man made rules & regulations. For example i will simply hilight "Interest" given by bank or any other financial institution on your saving, Islam has alway discouraged Interest as it will push Poor people under heavy burden. The God has created us and obviouly following his rules are in our best interest as he know us better.

Comeon Mujahideen. You know what the difference between moderate and extremist is very well. You are just covering your eyes and refusing to see the elephant in the room.

A moderate muslim is someone who is willing to acknowledge the existence and even the positive aspects of other faiths and ways of life. He is willing to live in a multi-cultural multi-religious society and try to integrate with it.

An extremist muslim wants islam to take over the world. He thinks that non-muslims don't deserve to live, and should be either converted or killed. He thinks that a society without islamic law is a society at war with Islam.
He thinks that islam, and islam alone, is the solution to all the problems of the world.

Both kinds of muslims exist. You know it, I know it. Trying to constantly prove that there are no extremist muslims is futile.

On the other hand, some argue that even a large number of the so-called moderate muslims secretly with for an all-islam-only-islam world.

 

[malee]

your thoughts are the clear reflection of your limitation, you are taking hindusim as your frame of reference where world is every thing, every liviing being has to taste the death.

If you understand the concept of life & death you shouldnt passes these types of remarks, the God is most mercyful and forgiving. Diesease washes our bad deeds like water washes the dirt, heavy is the true reward, while world is like a examination hall.

All the trouble we are facing today are from our side, Aids what do you think how Aids is introduce to human. If we follow what God has ordered us to do so we will not mess up with it. Blaming God is not right. Dying from Hunger, why coutries of 1st or 2nd world dumpted tones of grains/food stuff in sea water, why not they donate it instead of desposing it off. God will not help those who didnt wish to help themselves. You are blaming God but you didnt see the curel humans among you. You and human being couldnt do anything that god doesnt want to. You have to admit his supermacy, you dont have a single idea about Hell, I regret to state your reflections came from hindusim a fabricated faith where all the ideas/images are production of human mind.

Backward compatiablity of a religious text is no good boss. Show us real science. Lets say something like a new forumla to cure cancer. Gods grace should be infinite. Its a pity that he acts like a cruel fiat and kills little children with cancer.

What exactly has been the contribution of the holy Quran to modern Science ?

We know and understand the contribution of Muslims, but since somehow the religion itself is connected to science show us some of the real meat.

Something pathbreaking not like 'look this is proven scientifically and this phrase in the Quran also means the same'.

A month or two ago I was explaining this French femme as to why I dont 'worship' any God. I told her if God is this all powerfull big dude like you say why does he watch so many many kids die of cancer, aids and silly HUNGER.

That heartless being!
No excuse is good enough for killing little ones like that. Their suffering is as real as their innocence. If there ever was a God who can tell us about science in a book like Quran and yet watch so many kids suffer - I told her that I will never want to bow to THAT being.

If God is any one of the things that these Bibles, Qurans and Veda's make out to be then I want to be on the side of an anti-God, if ever one was possible. He could put me in a hell and torment me to eternity. Never shall I respect that cruel thing.

She said 'What you say is right!' and quit the conversation. I dont know if she realised she was just told the first of the four noble truths.