ISKANDER-M SYSTEM DEPLOYED IN ARMENIA

[Neptune]

What a nice change. How about you only ask serious questions from now on instead of being a d*ck.

It's not defensive in the sense that it will intercept incoming missiles or the like. It's defensive in the way that it will be used; Russia will attack Turkey if Turkey attacks Armenia (but never first). The base also has guns and mortars...which also are not strictly defense related.

Your second question is a good one, and one that Turkey wrestled with during the war in '93. Ultimately, they decided against it because of possible Russian intervention, despite the fact that public opinion in Turkey was overwhelmingly for Turkey's participation directly in the war. They restricted themselves to supply weapons and aid, and would likely due so again in a future war.

As to your question, there are 2 important points. First, Azeris would initially engage with the Nagorno Karabakh Defense Army, not the Armenian Army. It is important to make this distinction because attacks on Karabakh do not invoke the CSTO treaty (which is pretty much only Russia), but attacks on Armenia would.

The second point is HOW Armenian Army will get involved, which it undoubtebly would. If it does so on its own accord, then there is a slight chance that Russia will stay out of it and it will purely be Armenia vs. Azerbaijan. However, if Azerbaijan provokes Armenian Army by shelling Armenia proper (which it might, seeing as some of largest ceasefire violations are registered in northeast Armenia), then Armenian and Russia armies WILL intervene. But if Turkish soldiers are involved, then Russia will intervene no matter what.

I don't know, goddamn plays of goddamn politicians. I don't think that the Ruskies will intervene if Azerbaijan attacks. The possibilities of Russians intervention comes only if we attack. And I don't think that nobody including US and Russia will give a crap about a war between we and you.

 

[Kajutyun]

I don't know, goddamn plays of goddamn politicians. I don't think that the Ruskies will intervene if Azerbaijan attacks. The possibilities of Russians intervention comes only if we attack. And I don't think that nobody including US and Russia will give a crap about a war between we and you.

Well, I just explained to you the cases that Russia would and wouldn't intervene. Collective Security Treaty Organization mandates that Russia intervene on behalf of Armenia if Armenia is targeted. I don't see a reason for Russia to violate this, because Russia basically wrote the charter itself. On top of that, MASSIVE drills were conducted last year (under the name of "Interaction") in Armenia that included Russia and other CSTO nations.

Why do you think Azerbaijan has yet to attack Karabakh? Aliyev pretty much reminds the world that his country's defense budget is larger than Armenia's state budget everytime he is in front of a microphone. Two reasons: either Armenia has weaponry provided by Russia that is publicly undisclosed but realized by Azerbaijan and/or 2. Russia has made some indication to Azerbaijan behind closed doors that they are not to initiate conflict.

 

[Neptune]

Well, I just explained to you the cases that Russia would and wouldn't intervene. Collective Security Treaty Organization mandates that Russia intervene on behalf of Armenia if Armenia is targeted. I don't see a reason for Russia to violate this, because Russia basically wrote the charter itself. On top of that, MASSIVE drills were conducted last year (under the name of "Interaction") in Armenia that included Russia and other CSTO nations.

Why do you think Azerbaijan has yet to attack Karabakh? Aliyev pretty much reminds the world that his country's defense budget is larger than Armenia's state budget everytime he is in front of a microphone. Two reasons: either Armenia has weaponry provided by Russia that is publicly undisclosed but realized by Azerbaijan and/or 2. Russia has made some indication to Azerbaijan behind closed doors that they are not to initiate conflict.

I understand this collective security thing. But both Armenia and Azerbaijan are supplied by Russian Defence Industry, and I think both you guys have close relations with Russia, at this point Armenia is a little bit more closer but so does Azerbaijan to Turkey.

 

[Kajutyun]

I understand this collective security thing. But both Armenia and Azerbaijan are supplied by Russian Defence Industry, and I think both you guys have close relations with Russia, at this point Armenia is a little bit more closer but so does Azerbaijan to Turkey.

Yeah Russia's weird like that. They supply weapons to everyone, even those who they have tense relations with (China, formerly Georgia, formerly Finland).

Russian-Azerbaijani relations are worsening. Closing of Gabala radar station, ban on Russian-sounding names in Azerbaijan, and termination of an oil transit contract are only some of the recent incidents. Putin even refused to sell an S300PMU2 battery earlier this year (for some reason that I cannot remember).

I'm sorry, I just don't believe that Turkish-Azerbaijani military relations are that close. Yeah, you train together and Turkey sends Azerbaijan weapons, but we've never seen anything more than that. Turkey refused to intervene in '93, and not much as changed since then.

 

[Neptune]

Yeah Russia's weird like that. They supply weapons to everyone, even those who they have tense relations with (China, formerly Georgia, formerly Finland).

Russian-Azerbaijani relations are worsening. Closing of Gabala radar station, ban on Russian-sounding names in Azerbaijan, and termination of an oil transit contract are only some of the recent incidents. Putin even refused to sell an S300PMU2 battery earlier this year (for some reason that I cannot remember).

I'm sorry, I just don't believe that Turkish-Azerbaijani military relations are that close. Yeah, you train together and Turkey sends Azerbaijan weapons, but we've never seen anything more than that. Turkey refused to intervene in '93, and not much as changed since then.

Don't be. Because unfortunately you're on that. I'm a former Naval Cadet. I remember that many cadets from different nato nations had visited and trained in various facilities of the Naval Academy. I may have seen cadets from about 10-12 different nations even South Korea, But I've never seen an Azeri. But there are also some Azerbaijang sailors in Turkish Naval War College. Russia also wants to sell&cooperate S-300 to Turkey. About S-300, wasn't Azerbaijan had it's air defence by them

 

[Kajutyun]

Don't be. Because unfortunately you're on that. I'm a former Naval Cadet. I remember that many cadets from different nato nations had visited and trained in various facilities of the Naval Academy. I may have seen cadets from about 10-12 different nations even South Korea, But I've never seen an Azeri. But there are also some Azerbaijang sailors in Turkish Naval War College. Russia also wants to sell&cooperate S-300 to Turkey. About S-300, wasn't Azerbaijan had it's air defence by them

As far as I understand, Turkey wanted S-400 but Russia was offering S-300. And S-300s are one of many contending for Turkey's air defense systems, among US Patriot and some Chinese system.

Yeah, Azerbaijan maintains the latest versions of the S-300 system, most of which are deployed near Baku/Absheron Peninsula. In my opinion though, its kind of a waste seeing as Armenia invests practically 0 into its airforce. Armenia even turned down Russia's offer of MiG-29s.

This makes me thing that those air defense systems are directed more at Iran than Armenia...

 

[Neptune]

As far as I understand, Turkey wanted S-400 but Russia was offering S-300. And S-300s are one of many contending for Turkey's air defense systems, among US Patriot and some Chinese system.

Yeah, Azerbaijan maintains the latest versions of the S-300 system, most of which are deployed near Baku/Absheron Peninsula. In my opinion though, its kind of a waste seeing as Armenia invests practically 0 into its airforce. Armenia even turned down Russia's offer of MiG-29s.

This makes me thing that those air defense systems are directed more at Iran than Armenia...

In deed that's the point Azerbaijan uses it's army to encounter Armenia

 

[Kajutyun]

In deed that's the point Azerbaijan uses it's army to encounter Armenia

You seem reasonable. Have you ever been to Azerbaijan? Have you experienced the level of anti-Armenian racism at the official level. There's TV channels that run such hate 24-7. Then the government continues on to do stuff like pardon Ramil Safarov and threaten to target Metsamor NPP and cause nuclear fallout in Armenia.

But that is not the case in Armenia. Sure you'll hear bad things about Turks, but most people are nostalgic about good relations with Azeris.

No Armenian says that Azeris do not belong in Karabakh. But how is an Armenian supposed to live under such a regime?

 

[Neptune]

You seem reasonable. Have you ever been to Azerbaijan? Have you experienced the level of anti-Armenian racism at the official level. There's TV channels that run such hate 24-7. Then the government continues on to do stuff like pardon Ramil Safarov and threaten to target Metsamor NPP and cause nuclear fallout in Armenia.

But that is not the case in Armenia. Sure you'll hear bad things about Turks, but most people are nostalgic about good relations with Azeris.

No Armenian says that Azeris do not belong in Karabakh. But how is an Armenian supposed to live under such a regime?

I don't know what's happening in there. But Armenian TV channels do that too as well as the Azerbaijani TV channels, but that's not the point. In Karabag or whatever it's spelled, all etnicities live under heavy pressure not only Armenians, all of the natives of Karabag are under pressure by both Azerbaijan and Armenia. I think you should form your own independence if you are united

 

[Kajutyun]

I don't know what's happening in there. But Armenian TV channels do that too as well as the Azerbaijani TV channels, but that's not the point. In Karabag or whatever it's spelled, all etnicities live under heavy pressure not only Armenians, all of the natives of Karabag are under pressure by both Azerbaijan and Armenia. I think you should form your own independence if you are united

My point is that the level of racism coming out of Azerbaijan compared to Armenia is enormous.

Nobody says Azerbaijanis can't come back to Karabakh. It's Aliyev who is treating the displaced persons like crap by refusing to build them homes (so that they can continue to be recognized as IDPs). Never in Karabakh's history as the population been totally Armenian, and nobody wants it to be either. Any way that you look at it, Azerbaijan has to make the first move. They claim that Armenia should by withdrawing army, but we all know that Karabakh would lose its independence if that happened.

Think of it like North Cyprus. Sure its internationally recognized as occupied land, but don't the ethnic Turks have the right to determine sovereignty? They answer is they do, and f*ck what the world thinks. Same mentality for Karabakh Armenians.

 

[TheThreePashas]

My point is that the level of racism coming out of Azerbaijan compared to Armenia is enormous.

Nobody says Azerbaijanis can't come back to Karabakh. It's Aliyev who is treating the displaced persons like crap by refusing to build them homes (so that they can continue to be recognized as IDPs). Never in Karabakh's history as the population been totally Armenian, and nobody wants it to be either. Any way that you look at it, Azerbaijan has to make the first move. They claim that Armenia should by withdrawing army, but we all know that Karabakh would lose its independence if that happened.

Think of it like North Cyprus. Sure its internationally recognized as occupied land, but don't the ethnic Turks have the right to determine sovereignty? They answer is they do, and f*ck what the world thinks. Same mentality for Karabakh Armenians.

The Turks in North Cyprus don't have the right to sovereignty just because they're there. They have a right to sovereignty because they were being cleansed, there's a difference.



Also, please don't forget everyone that Turkish-Russian relations are much closer than they were in 1993. It may not be worth losing Turkey as a trade partner to intervene. Turkish-Russian trade is worth about $34 billion and Russia has billions more invested in Turkey. Armenia's GDP is only around $10-11 billion. If the situation doesn't cause a significant loss in Russian prestige, Karabağ will be Azeri Turkish land once more.

In addition, the pressure to help our kin in a war will be much higher in Turkey now, due to Turkey's recently elevated power. Russia would need to use strategic weapons to stop Turkey decisively due to the land border we share with Armenia. That would be overkill and Uncle Sam wouldn't be too pleased

 

[Kajutyun]

The Turks in North Cyprus don't have the right to sovereignty just because they're there. They have a right to sovereignty because they were being cleansed, there's a difference.



Also, please don't forget everyone that Turkish-Russian relations are much closer than they were in 1993. It may not be worth losing Turkey as a trade partner to intervene. Turkish-Russian trade is worth about $34 billion and Russia has billions more invested in Turkey. Armenia's GDP is only around $10-11 billion. If the situation doesn't cause a significant loss in Russian prestige, Karabağ will be Azeri Turkish land once more.

In addition, the pressure to help our kin in a war will be much higher in Turkey now, due to Turkey's recently elevated power. Russia would need to use strategic weapons to stop Turkey decisively due to the land border we share with Armenia. That would be overkill and Uncle Sam wouldn't be too pleased

And Karabakh Armenians weren't?!?! Do you know what happened in Nakhchivan? In the 1920s when Stalin gave it to Azerbaijan, it began to be cleansed of Armenians. By the time the Soviet Union collapsed, there were no Armenians there to fight for independence. All of our khachkars (cross monuments) were destroyed. The Azeris tried to do the same in Karabakh, but evidently the fall of the USSR came too soon and there were still Armenians there.

Do you know how the Karabakh war started? When Azerbaijan began shelling our civilian city Stepanakert. Do you know why Armenians in Javahk did not fight for independence? Because they were not being massacred by Georgians.

Like you said, Russia and Turkey maintain a strictly commercial relationship. In the political arena they are rivals. The fact that Iskanders were moved to the 102nd base is possible indication of rising tensions. You saying that Russia will give up on Armenia is solely your opinion, backed by nothing except what you believe to make sense.

Your last paragraph is completely false. Turkey is stronger in absolute terms, not relative. In other words, Russia is still as much stronger now as it was then compared to Turkey. I have no idea what "strategic weapons" are.

Finally, there is no reason to believe that Turkey cares enough about Karabakh to risk war with Russia. It will be of no gain to them. All this talk about "kin" is nonsense. There is no friendship on government level. If Turkey has nothing to gain, it will not do anything.

 

[meral]

Regardless, it's definitely something Turkey should be worried about.

Russia definitely should be worried about the muslim population inside russia which Turkey can use as we did before Turkish inventory is HALAL for our caucaus brothers and they can use it on russian-parasites like armenians also

 

[meral]

What a nice change. How about you only ask serious questions from now on instead of being a d*ck.

Yeah you are right, we have so many dicks and thats why you are exporting prostitutes to Istanbul streets day by day

 

[meral]

I'm sorry, I just don't believe that Turkish-Azerbaijani military relations are that close. Yeah, you train together and Turkey sends Azerbaijan weapons, but we've never seen anything more than that. Turkey refused to intervene in '93, and not much as changed since then.

Not much has changed? Turkey is fastly producing domestic products, Azerbaijan economy will keep growing and they didnt have an army in 93 and it was Turkey who kept Naxchivan and now Turkey only needs 10 years then you wont see this friendly Turkey but we will be the biggest bully in the region and in 10 years maybe there wont be armenia cause you leave the ship like rats and birth rate isnt much hopeful either!