ISI top gun to be taken for TTP talks

[Irfan Baloch]

Why would the TTP kill him? Was he plotting against them? Or was it because he was admired by the Americans and therefore looked at with suspicion by the TTP?

Why would the TTP kill him?
his execution video and one before while he was under the captivity of Lashker Jhangvi would give you insight on why TTP wanted to kill him.

his "confessional" video was about the usual charge of being a "traitor" and working against "mujahideen" and working for Pakistan army and Americans.

Was he plotting against them?

I cant answer that question for certain. maybe what he was doing was seen as plotting against TTP by his killers.. ISI and Pak military has in the past wedged differences among TTP factions and between Afghan taliban and TTP

he had a lot of clout in both Afghan taliban, the non taliban Afghans in general and the Americans as well and he was still part of Pakistani establishment after retirement. Khalid Khawaja who was also abducted and executed earlier was overtly pro LeJ, pro Lal Masjid, pro TTP and pro Al Qaeda.. his execution was more baffling. both were on their way to meet the Afghan taliban when they were picked up and killed later.

Admired by Americans?
this can be another reason, if you see his interviews (I knew Bin Laden by Al Jazera, and other clips) he (despite his traditional drab) doesnt threaten and use rhetoric in his speech. Americans who worked with him paid tribute to him after his death. Pakistan had been trying to bridge and establish a communication line between Americans and the Afghan taliban from start and even warned them not to alienate the Pashtons, but in the beginning of the invasion the entire pashton population was condemned much to the delight of northern alliance and it only gave Afghan taliban a breather and space to come back not only in Pashton areas but also in the north.

Col Imam was contracted by Pakistani state and since both Pakistan and America were partners in WOT, we needed a person who had experience in the field. he was a former SSG as well as ISI agent and had conducted operations in Afghanistan during Soviet occupation.

what is TTP and what does it want
TTP is a completely different story. we get a lot of criticism and mockery over the rise of TTP due to our involvement in Afghan jihad but all the leaders of TTP are the creation of past 2000. not even a single person had ever been part of Afghan jihad of the 80s. TTP doesnt even operate in Afghanistan and actually on the contrary is hosted and supported by Afghan intelligence. (if it is a shock for you then I strongly encourage you to check how and who from Americans got the information that helped them to kill Hakim Ullah Mehsood).

if you look at its demands then you wont see anything about drone strikes or American presence in Afghanistan etc. they are demanding the end of operations, they want "compensation" for their losses and want their friends to be freed and they want shariah (read the power) in Pakistan.

our successive political parties will just buy some time and try to pass their term in the office as fast as they can and pass the burden to next party in line to repeat the same. TTP wont stop until its foreign funding and support is not disrupted and stopped or the military doesnt do a Sri Lanka on them

 

[Informant]

Nawaz is playing a very dangerous game on his masters bidding. I'm sure, this Maj. Amir is a member of the 5th column. There are many such creatures amongst us, hiding in plain sight. Talking to them will only get you death, only mass butchering of their kind can save Pakistan.




Off topic:
@Zarvan, apnay aap ko ammonia ka injection lagga do. Their women and children need to be burned at the stake, and sympathizer such as yourself need to join them, on a one way trip to Valhalla.

Lahoooooooooooooooooooooooooool Wala Quwwwaaat, kidhr bhej riya hai in logon ko?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Nawaz is playing a very dangerous game on his masters bidding. I'm sure, this Maj. Amir is a member of the 5th column. There are many such creatures amongst us, hiding in plain sight. Talking to them will only get you death, only mass butchering of their kind can save Pakistan.

reminds me of an article in Dawn

Pakistan’s 'song of llion' - DAWN.COM

Hector was the valiant and honorable son of King Priam of Troy and the city’s most valiant warrior, his death in many ways, signified the end of Troy described by Redfield as “as a martyr to loyalties”.

His nobility in death is shown in stark contrast to the Greek deceit. While the story has been narrated over the last 3,000 years, it is worth repeating for the lessons it contains in the context of current Pakistan.

The Greeks most formidable combatant Achilles had been brooding and would not take to the battle field. But once Hector, disguised in Achilles’ armour, killed his closest companion Patroclus, stripping him off the armour, an enraged Achilles engaged in battle and mercilessly killed the Trojans, dividing their army into two. Achilles killed so many Trojans that the river turned red with blood, he then charged onto the gates of Troy, making an encounter with Hector inevitable.

The final encounter took place outside the gates of Troy, Hector who had ordered the army to camp outside the city walls, would not retreat back into the safety of the walls as that would appear to be dishonorable to the troops still outside, despite his parent’s pleadings. Yet, he knew that alone he could not defeat Achilles, desperate, he circled the city walls thrice, whilst being chased by the merciless Greek. During the chase, he thought he could reason with his foe and offer to return Helen, the stated reason for this battle, but then he realised that the war was not about a woman but about power. He was in no position to negotiate.

“Lions do not talk to mortals” was Achilles response when Hector requested that the victor should not mutilate the loser’s corpse.

On Mount Olympus, the Gods had also taken sides each supporting their favourite. At one point, the God Apollo almost came to blows but despite taunts would not “get into a fight over mere mortals”.

Although his fate was sealed, Achilles still could not manage to kill the Trojan hero.

Then, the goddess Athena took it upon herself to tip the balance, and disguised as Hector’s brother Deiphobus descended upon the battle field. Overjoyed, Hector readily accepted the new arrival without question as together he thought they could take on Achilles, he turned around and faced the enemy wearing Achilles' armour, only for his new-found ally to disappear, Hector realised that he had been tricked by the Gods.

Achilles knew the weaknesses of Hector’s armour, whilst Hector could not fathom its strengths, Thus the valiant Trojan fell and the fate of the city was sealed.

Here’s how some lessons from this battle may be contextualised into present day Pakistan:

• Wars are about power not issues: The battle for Troy was never about Helen but about “empire”, similarly the battle in Pakistan is not about Islam or Shariah but about imposing the Taliban’s power over a region of the entire country.

• Always wear your own battle armour. Hector wore Achilles armour; he did not know its strengths, but Achilles knew its weakness. Using religious groups as proxy warriors in Kashmir and Afghanistan, the country has suffered as the enemy knows the army’s weaknesses, while the army cannot easily penetrate the Taliban’s armour.

• Choose carefully who to go into battle with. Hector was tricked by Athena, similarly the Pakistan army, having used the religious zealots as warriors, face the same groups turning against them.

• Fight to win, the consequence of a loss is severe; Hectors infant son was tossed over the walls and his loving and loyal wife Andromache was taken as a slave. When the Taliban conquered Kabul they castrated and hanged the former ruler Najeebullah.

• Valour and loyalty are important attributes but deceit can win. If the Taliban continue about their murderous ways, there is little point in maintaining a stance for valour.

• Unite your army, for a divided army loses in combat.

• Only negotiate from a position of strength, how else will the enemy pay attention?

Is Chief of Army Staff, General Raheel Sharif willing to deploy 12 divisions of his finest troops for this war?

Similar numbers may be needed in Fata, Karachi, Bahawalpur, Muzaffarabad, Jhang and Muridke.

The battle for Pakistan has begun and the enemy has to be defeated, or Ghalib’s following couplet would be written at the graves of the martyrs of this war:

Hoowai markay joh hum ruswa, howai kyun na gharq darya
Na kabhi janaza uthta, na kahin mazaar hota

If we had to be humiliated after death, why did we not just drown in a river, there would be no pomp at the funeral and no grave for visitors.

 

[Informant]

reminds me of an article in Dawn

Pakistan’s 'song of llion' - DAWN.COM

Bad analogy, illiad of Troy doesnt make sense. Well i do see the author's intention and admire it.

Is it me or Shareef sab couldnt pull of the look of Kiyani sb. Kiyani looked more in command, more of a general. He seemed the part too with his suave and awe.

 

[Dash]

major amir maybe. someone who is ex ISI and has sympathies with the terrorists. like we have many among the general public and the politicians.

Wouldnt that hamper the negotiation if somebody is pro-terrorist?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Wouldnt that hamper the negotiation if somebody is pro-terrorist?

no it wont because they will agree on all the TTP demands.

what do you think Nawaz Sherif and his party is?
Irfan sadique who was representing government last time said that its like meeting with brothers and having same agenda.
PTI, TTP, JUI, JI and Naweaz league are all on same page.

Bad analogy, illiad of Troy doesnt make sense.

its a point of view.

to you it doesnt but to me it makes perfect sense. just like a reptile no matter how much domesticated will see you or your kids as food source no matter how much you groom it. same is the case with the savages they wont settle anything less than your head and the throne.

 

[Dash]

no it wont because they will agree on all the TTP demands.
what do you think Nawaz Sherif and his party is?
Irfan sadique who was representing government last time said that its like meeting with brothers and having same agenda.
PTI, TTP, JUI, JI and Naweaz league are all on same page.

Because they know that its impossible to bring all of them under constitutional guidelines?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Because they know that its impossible to bring all of them under constitutional guidelines?

yes that is true
TTP doesnt recognise Pakistani constitution
it considers Pakistan army as infidel
it wants Talibanised Islamic law in Pakistan
and the Throne in Islamabad

nothing less than that. nawaz party knows it too well but its just passing time. and hoping that the death and carnage will be sucked by army and people and the government will complete its term without too much problems.

Any Indian with a say in India's future policy and interests should start looking at the effects of complete collapse of Pakistani state and prepare accordingly. TTP will try to infiltrate into Indian Muslim population and replay the same game.
when Indian forces will retaliate, only Indian Muslims will suffer and TTP will continue to hide in the background. only Indian nationalism and defeating Saudi funding of TTP will prevent the situation getting any worse.

TTP has gone global already and is actually fighting in Syria through the backing of Nawaz league and Saudis. India is just next door.

what about Lt Gen (R) Hamid Gul?

of course him

when we can have people like Irfan Sadique and Burka Aunty in the "peace" committee then why not our good old general.

seriously that is a good choice. although general like Imran Khan is unfairly advocating the taliban but he is not as dark and evil like the red mosque aunty who threatens us with his 500 ninja suicide bombers

 

[Khan_patriot]

Finally talks are progressing and now I think first ISPR was in denial that they had women and children as prisoners but now indirectly they have admitted it and are now going to release them although I hated Salman Taseer but his son had no fault neither son of Gillani they should be released by Taliban too

and how did this revelation come to you....???

 

[Jf Thunder]

yes that is true
TTP doesnt recognise Pakistani constitution
it considers Pakistan army as infidel
it wants Talibanised Islamic law in Pakistan
and the Throne in Islamabad

nothing less than that. nawaz party knows it too well but its just passing time. and hoping that the death and carnage will be sucked by army and people and the government will complete its term without too much problems.

Any Indian with a say in India's future policy and interests should start looking at the effects of complete collapse of Pakistani state and prepare accordingly. TTP will try to infiltrate into Indian Muslim population and replay the same game.
when Indian forces will retaliate, only Indian Muslims will suffer and TTP will continue to hide in the background. only Indian nationalism and defeating Saudi funding of TTP will prevent the situation getting any worse.

TTP has gone global already and is actually fighting in Syria through the backing of Nawaz league and Saudis. India is just next door.


of course him

when we can have people like Irfan Sadique and Burka Aunty in the "peace" committee then why not our good old general.

seriously that is a good choice. although general like Imran Khan is unfairly advocating the taliban but he is not as dark and evil like the red mosque aunty who threatens us with his 500 ninja suicide bombers

who is Irfan Siddique and Burka Aunty?

 

[hussain0216]

Limited knowledge. Limited analytical capabilities. Limited foresight. For me, people such as yourself are akin to sheep, ready to be feasted upon. I have no soul, and trust you me, your idiot brethren, the Taliban have created a million like me. I'm just waiting for the right time to start the butchering of anyone with a beard, and your extended families. It's just a matter of time.

Dont get too excited son you will get the Salman Taseer treatment handed to you..

There may be 1 million of you but their are 189 million of us, dont confuse Pakistan or the Pakistan military with the secular kaffir types in e.g Egypt

 

[Dash]

Any Indian with a say in India's future policy and interests should start looking at the effects of complete collapse of Pakistani state and prepare accordingly. TTP will try to infiltrate into Indian Muslim population and replay the same game.
when Indian forces will retaliate, only Indian Muslims will suffer and TTP will continue to hide in the background. only Indian nationalism and defeating Saudi funding of TTP will prevent the situation getting any worse.

To be honest, I dont see a complete collapse of Pakistani state, you have many ways to prevent that but thats out of scope of current conversation. I got your point of TTP infiltrating to Indian muslims, but it iis not possible as India wont allow that. To be honest India's best interest lies in a stable Pakistan, precisely for the fear you just mentioned.

Second, Indian muslims are much more educated and self aware of such an association with TTP as they have witnessed the carnage thay have caused. and yes, nationalism in India is another big factor.

Saudi money,can be handled through diplomatic channels but I didnt see any efforts made by Pakistani government so far.

 

[Pakistani E]

Dont get too excited son you will get the Salman Taseer treatment handed to you..

There may be 1 million of you but their are 189 million of us, dont confuse Pakistan or the Pakistan military with the secular kaffir types in e.g Egypt

Wrong. There are more than 1 Million of people of who are anti Taliban dum challas like you. Lets see, about 30 Million Shias, about 5 Million Ahmadis, 2 Million Hindus, 3 Million Christians. This is not counting the millions of berelvis and others.
Let me tell me, I as a Pakistani is not afraid to return and fight the Taliban and people like you if the government falls. Every one in my native village also carries guns, but we don't target innocent people in markets and mosques to show how manly we are.

And btw, aren't you the mirpuri sitting in the UK? What you doing in a kuffar country? Go back to Pakistan son, then we'll see what your words are worth.

 

[Hyperion]

Haye Allah, aag laggi darhee mein? Next time don't threaten directly, you may not be able to carry out your threat, I surely am well capable of crossing all sort of lines.

Dont get too excited son you will get the Salman Taseer treatment handed to you..

There may be 1 million of you but their are 189 million of us, dont confuse Pakistan or the Pakistan military with the secular kaffir types in e.g Egypt

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Wrong. There are more than 1 Million of people of who are anti Taliban dum challas like you. Lets see, about 30 Million Shias, about 5 Million Ahmadis, 2 Million Hindus, 3 Million Christians. This is not counting the millions of berelvis and others.
Let me tell me, I as a Pakistani is not afraid to return and fight the Taliban and people like you if the government falls. Every one in my native village also carries guns, but we don't target innocent people in markets and mosques to show how manly we are.

And btw, aren't you the mirpuri sitting in the UK? What you doing in a kuffar country? Go back to Pakistan son, then we'll see what your words are worth.

I belong to Beralvi family which is the biggest part of Sunnis in Pakistan. that said I dont like being called a shia or sunni or anything I am jsut a human being

re @hussain0216 Kashmiri origin from Mirpur I know the place is very tranquil.. I have spent time in Bhimbher sector for 2 years on our forward positions along the LOC.

Kasmiri people as a whole escaped the wrath of fanaticism except Rawalkot where the second generation of Pashtons living there started conducting suicide attacks on Pakistan army in the past but were captured with the help of local Kashmiris.

@hussain0216 tell me more about your place, I have spent very good time in your city. lovely and easy going people and very patriot Pakistani Kashmiris they are and form the biggest portion of Pakistani Kashmiris in Pakistan military.

, the Taliban have created a million like me. I'm just waiting for the right time to start the butchering of anyone with a beard, and your extended families. It's just a matter of time.

I will love to join you.