T-Faz
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ISAF (NATO) Killed 3 Pakistani Soldiers @ Pak-Afghan Check Post (Again)
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HAK
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I knew our govt doesnot have enough guts to take proper action
Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- The U.S. military says only one supply route to Afghanistan has been closed by the Pakistani government after fighting that led to the deaths of three Pakistani soldiers, and a military spokesman said Thursday that United States is hopeful the situation is only temporary.
Pakistan banned NATO supply convoys from entering Afghanistan after the deaths of the three soldiers, whom the government says were killed in Pakistani territory during fighting between NATO troops and militants, according to a military official from the NATO-led command in Afghanistan.
Other routes from Pakistan to the war zone remain open, Pentagon spokesman Col. Dave Lapan said Thursday. Lapan said it was too soon to assess the impact of closing this crucial route.
The U.S. Embassy in Islamabad is talking with Pakistan to resolve the situation.
Supply convoys are all-important for the Afghan war effort, and officials from NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) were trying to persuade Pakistan to lift the ban. Coalition forces rely heavily on convoys from Pakistan to bring in supplies and gear.
ISAF said in a statement Thursday that its forces saw what they thought were insurgents trying to fire mortars at a coalition base in the Dand Patan District of Afghanistan's Paktiya province, near the Pakistani border.
An air weapons team targeted the suspected insurgents' firing position, located inside Afghanistan along the border area, and the aircraft entered Pakistani airspace briefly "as they engaged this initial target," the ISAF statement said.
After this strike, the "aircraft received what the crews assessed as effective small arms fire from individuals just across the border in Pakistan" and the ISAF aircraft, operating in self-defense, entered into Pakistani airspace and killed "several armed individuals."
Later, Pakistani military officials told ISAF that coalition aircraft struck its border forces.
"ISAF and Pakistani forces are reviewing the operational reporting to verify the exact location of the two engagements and the facts in this case, and we will work together to fully investigate this incident.
"Both sides have in mind that it is the insurgents, operating on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and violating the territorial sovereignty of both countries, that we are focused on fighting," the ISAF statement said.
ISAF issued "sincere condolences to the Pakistani military and the families of those who were killed or injured."
The Pakistani government said two helicopters from Afghanistan appeared to have crossed the border into Pakistan in the Mandata Kandaho, Ali Mangola area of the upper Kurram Agency and engaged an outpost of Frontier Corps through cannon fire.
The post, manned by six soldiers, is located 200 meters inside Pakistan, and troops fired their rifles to indicate that the helicopters were crossing into Pakistani territory.
Instead of heeding the warning, the choppers fired two missiles and destroyed the post, killing the three soldiers and injuring three others.
"This is the third incident of its kind during past one week. In the wake of the last incident on 27 September, contact was made at the highest military level and the incident was regretted by the USA," the government said.
NATO helicopters crossed into Pakistani airspace from Afghanistan in pursuit of insurgents over the weekend, killing 49 people, a spokesman told CNN Monday.
Crossing the border did not violate the International Security Assistance Force rules of engagement, Maj. Michael Johnson said.
Pakistan is very sensitive about U.S.-led military operations on its territory and issued a strong protest Monday.
Pakistan called the incursions "a clear violation and breach" of U.N. rules for foreign forces in Afghanistan.
The United Nations "mandate terminates/finishes at the Afghanistan border. There are no agreed hot pursuit rules," Pakistan's Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
A senior administration official in the tribal region's Khyber Agency told CNN Thursday that Pakistan had temporarily stopped NATO supplies from entering Afghanistan in the area of Takhta Baig, which is located about 45 km (28 miles) from the border with Afghanistan.
The official asked to not be named because he was not authorized to talk to the media.
A commander of international forces in the western part of Afghanistan said Thursday that Pakistan's recent ban on use of supply routes is "not a problem" for troops in his area of the country.
Italian Gen. Claudio Berto, talking to reporters in the Pentagon via satellite from Afghanistan, said, "In my point of view, it's not a problem, we are really far away from Pakistan, and if you mean the goods for the soldier, they're coming through other borders, for example Turkmenistan. And we have no problem with this issue."
Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- The U.S. military says only one supply route to Afghanistan has been closed by the Pakistani government after fighting that led to the deaths of three Pakistani soldiers, and a military spokesman said Thursday that United States is hopeful the situation is only temporary.
Pakistan banned NATO supply convoys from entering Afghanistan after the deaths of the three soldiers, whom the government says were killed in Pakistani territory during fighting between NATO troops and militants, according to a military official from the NATO-led command in Afghanistan.
Other routes from Pakistan to the war zone remain open, Pentagon spokesman Col. Dave Lapan said Thursday. Lapan said it was too soon to assess the impact of closing this crucial route.
The U.S. Embassy in Islamabad is talking with Pakistan to resolve the situation.
Supply convoys are all-important for the Afghan war effort, and officials from NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) were trying to persuade Pakistan to lift the ban. Coalition forces rely heavily on convoys from Pakistan to bring in supplies and gear.
ISAF said in a statement Thursday that its forces saw what they thought were insurgents trying to fire mortars at a coalition base in the Dand Patan District of Afghanistan's Paktiya province, near the Pakistani border.
An air weapons team targeted the suspected insurgents' firing position, located inside Afghanistan along the border area, and the aircraft entered Pakistani airspace briefly "as they engaged this initial target," the ISAF statement said.
After this strike, the "aircraft received what the crews assessed as effective small arms fire from individuals just across the border in Pakistan" and the ISAF aircraft, operating in self-defense, entered into Pakistani airspace and killed "several armed individuals."
Later, Pakistani military officials told ISAF that coalition aircraft struck its border forces.
"ISAF and Pakistani forces are reviewing the operational reporting to verify the exact location of the two engagements and the facts in this case, and we will work together to fully investigate this incident.
"Both sides have in mind that it is the insurgents, operating on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and violating the territorial sovereignty of both countries, that we are focused on fighting," the ISAF statement said.
ISAF issued "sincere condolences to the Pakistani military and the families of those who were killed or injured."
The Pakistani government said two helicopters from Afghanistan appeared to have crossed the border into Pakistan in the Mandata Kandaho, Ali Mangola area of the upper Kurram Agency and engaged an outpost of Frontier Corps through cannon fire.
The post, manned by six soldiers, is located 200 meters inside Pakistan, and troops fired their rifles to indicate that the helicopters were crossing into Pakistani territory.
Instead of heeding the warning, the choppers fired two missiles and destroyed the post, killing the three soldiers and injuring three others.
"This is the third incident of its kind during past one week. In the wake of the last incident on 27 September, contact was made at the highest military level and the incident was regretted by the USA," the government said.
NATO helicopters crossed into Pakistani airspace from Afghanistan in pursuit of insurgents over the weekend, killing 49 people, a spokesman told CNN Monday.
Crossing the border did not violate the International Security Assistance Force rules of engagement, Maj. Michael Johnson said.
Pakistan is very sensitive about U.S.-led military operations on its territory and issued a strong protest Monday.
Pakistan called the incursions "a clear violation and breach" of U.N. rules for foreign forces in Afghanistan.
The United Nations "mandate terminates/finishes at the Afghanistan border. There are no agreed hot pursuit rules," Pakistan's Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
A senior administration official in the tribal region's Khyber Agency told CNN Thursday that Pakistan had temporarily stopped NATO supplies from entering Afghanistan in the area of Takhta Baig, which is located about 45 km (28 miles) from the border with Afghanistan.
The official asked to not be named because he was not authorized to talk to the media.
A commander of international forces in the western part of Afghanistan said Thursday that Pakistan's recent ban on use of supply routes is "not a problem" for troops in his area of the country.
Italian Gen. Claudio Berto, talking to reporters in the Pentagon via satellite from Afghanistan, said, "In my point of view, it's not a problem, we are really far away from Pakistan, and if you mean the goods for the soldier, they're coming through other borders, for example Turkmenistan. And we have no problem with this issue."
mehru
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They were warned. Pak didn't retaliate the first time it happened. Noone warns second time. Your question is answered by JIGS more properly.
You do know pakistan has made it clear anyone that crosses into their territory will be fired on. Now the first time this happened is understandable since the gunships were following insurgents into pakistan who themselves were in Afghanistan then crossed over. The second time this happened they decided once again to follow the insurgents into pakistan (which ISAF said they were to notify Pakistani officers if they were to cross over and that never happened) then once guards fired warning shots or at them they decided to attack the outpost in pakistan. This is unacceptable. If the U.S. wants to announce they are going to attack targets in pakistan with helicopters they should make it public.
The fact is you can pinpoint Pak mistake as much as you want as this is obviously your attention but the fact is our soldiers died and their helicopters turned back unharmed.
As for American help in floods, noone is denying that. It was widely appreciated and it softened US image in Pakistan but now they tarnished their image once again. So net result zero. If we are an ally then America needs to show some sensitivity to our concerns. Don't you think so?
mehru
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No. Pakistan knows it very well. Maybe you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
karan.1970
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I am not defending America's intrusion. Simply highlighting lack of procedure followed by the FC men. Please understand that Pakistan is not in a state of declared war with USA. In absence of a war, there is a set procedure to be followed for every engagement. A warning to a chopper intrusion 2 days back is not considered as a warning to another chopper that comes in 2 days later. For every incident of intrusion, there is a radio warning, followed by warning shots. Post that only the fire is directed at the asset.
Also when receiving fire, the military assets automatically drop into weapons free mode, which in this case was the American chopper.
And didnt I hear the intrusion was barely 200 meters. ??
I think some officer in that area took the chest thumping a little too seriously and 3 of his men paid for it. Extremely unfortunate as the incident could have been avoided so easily..
karan.1970
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US in talks with Pakistan over closed supply route: Pentagon - The Times of India
WASHINGTON: The Pentagon on Thursday expressed hope that Pakistan would reopen a key supply route for US-led forces in Afghanistan, which Islamabad closed after NATO aircraft staged cross-border raids.
US officials were holding talks with the Pakistanis after Islamabad accused NATO of killing Pakistani troops in the fourth cross-border attack this week, prompting the closure of the main land route for coalition troops in neighboring Afghanistan.
"We are in discussions with the Pakistani government and hope we can resolve the issue through discussion," Colonel Dave Lapan told reporters when asked about the route.
He said it was "too soon" to assess the effect of suspending supply convoys along the Khyber Pass route, which links Peshawar in Pakistan with Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan.
"As you all know we have many different capabilities, routes, ways to resupply, so there's no immediate impact," Lapan said.
US officials were also discussing if procedures and protocols were followed correctly in the recent cross-border incidents, he said.
State Department spokesman Philip Crowley also played down the closing of the supply route and said the border incident was being examined.
"There has been an incident along the Pakistan- Afghanistan border. We take seriously our responsibilities as a partner, there's a review ongoing," Crowley told reporters.
NATO said its aircraft entered Pakistani airspace early Thursday in self defense and killed "several armed individuals" after air crews believed they had been fired at from the ground.
But a Pakistan military spokesman in a statement said two helicopters from Afghanistan used cannon fire against an outpost of the Frontier Corps located 200 meters (650 feet) inside Pakistan.
Troops present at the post manned by six soldiers "retaliated through rifle fire to indicate that the helicopters were crossing into our territory," the spokesman said.
ISAF said it had been informed by Pakistani military officials that members of their border forces had been hit by coalition aircraft and said a review was underway "to verify the exact location of the two engagements and the facts".
Lapan said that any rifle fire at the aircraft would likely have been treated as "hostile" fire by the allied forces.
WASHINGTON: The Pentagon on Thursday expressed hope that Pakistan would reopen a key supply route for US-led forces in Afghanistan, which Islamabad closed after NATO aircraft staged cross-border raids.
US officials were holding talks with the Pakistanis after Islamabad accused NATO of killing Pakistani troops in the fourth cross-border attack this week, prompting the closure of the main land route for coalition troops in neighboring Afghanistan.
"We are in discussions with the Pakistani government and hope we can resolve the issue through discussion," Colonel Dave Lapan told reporters when asked about the route.
He said it was "too soon" to assess the effect of suspending supply convoys along the Khyber Pass route, which links Peshawar in Pakistan with Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan.
"As you all know we have many different capabilities, routes, ways to resupply, so there's no immediate impact," Lapan said.
US officials were also discussing if procedures and protocols were followed correctly in the recent cross-border incidents, he said.
State Department spokesman Philip Crowley also played down the closing of the supply route and said the border incident was being examined.
"There has been an incident along the Pakistan- Afghanistan border. We take seriously our responsibilities as a partner, there's a review ongoing," Crowley told reporters.
NATO said its aircraft entered Pakistani airspace early Thursday in self defense and killed "several armed individuals" after air crews believed they had been fired at from the ground.
But a Pakistan military spokesman in a statement said two helicopters from Afghanistan used cannon fire against an outpost of the Frontier Corps located 200 meters (650 feet) inside Pakistan.
Troops present at the post manned by six soldiers "retaliated through rifle fire to indicate that the helicopters were crossing into our territory," the spokesman said.
ISAF said it had been informed by Pakistani military officials that members of their border forces had been hit by coalition aircraft and said a review was underway "to verify the exact location of the two engagements and the facts".
Lapan said that any rifle fire at the aircraft would likely have been treated as "hostile" fire by the allied forces.
Cheetah786
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Pakistan halts NATO supplies after border attack
(Reuters) - Pakistani authorities blocked a vital supply route for NATO troops fighting in Afghanistan on Thursday after the killing of three soldiers in two NATO cross-border incursions, officials said.
Trucks and fuel tankers for foreign forces in Afghanistan were stopped at the Torkham border post in the Khyber tribal region near the city of Peshawar, hours after the raid.
"Yes, the NATO supplies have been stopped. It has been done locally," a senior security official told Reuters on condition of anonymity.
Aircraft from the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) initially crossed the border in the Kurram region briefly while targeting suspected insurgents who were firing on a coalition base from a position inside Afghanistan, an ISAF statement said.
They were then fired on by people in Pakistan, and crossed the border again to target that group.
"Operating in self-defense, the ISAF aircraft entered into Pakistani airspace, killing several armed individuals," the statement said.
The statement did not say if ISAF thought those killed were border guards, and when asked for clarification, an ISAF spokeswoman said both sides were still investigating the incident.
"This is the third incident of its kind during the past week," the Pakistani military said in a statement. Three soldiers were wounded, it said.
Pentagon spokesman Colonel David Lapan declined to elaborate on the details of the incident, but noted that a Pakistani statement said "their forces used rifle fire at the helicopters as a warning."
"You fire at helicopter in a combat zone, they usually take that as hostile and return fire," he said.
CRUCIAL ALLY
Pakistan is a crucial ally for the United States in its efforts to stabilize Afghanistan, but analysts say border incursions and disruptions in NATO supplies underline growing tensions in the relationship.
The United States has already stepped up missile strikes by its pilotless drone aircraft on militant targets inside Pakistan.
The bulk of non-lethal military supplies for NATO troops in Afghanistan moves through Pakistan.
Lapan said the Torkham border crossing closure had had "no immediate impact" on NATO resupply, but its possible effect would depend on how long it remained shut.
He noted that NATO has a variety of supply routes into Afghanistan, including others in Pakistan that remained open.
"We are in discussions with the Pakistani government and hope that we can resolve the issue," Lapan said.
"PROFOUND CONCERN"
The border row occurred as CIA chief Leon Panetta began a previously scheduled visit to Pakistan for talks with top military and political figures.
Panetta met President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani, army chief General Ashfaq Kayani and the head of the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, Lieutenant-General Ahmed Shuja Pasha.
Gilani expressed "profound concern" over increasing drone strikes and violations of Pakistan's airspace by NATO forces, he said in a statement.
Citing reports by Western security officials about foiling a militant plot to stage coordinated attacks in Europe, Gilani pledged Pakistan's help to thwart such plans if given "credible information in advance."
Panetta welcomed Pakistan's help in the fight against militants and said the U.S. government would look into its ally's complaints about border violations.
A senior intelligence official said border incursions into Pakistan were a "red line" and could lead to a "total snapping of relations."
Neither country could afford that, the official said, so it would be a disaster if further incursions took place.
"But we'll live with that or we'll die with that," he said. "We're in a state of war. We've lost more than 30,000 people since 2001. What more can we lose? Another 100,000? These incursions are not something we can tolerate."
Pakistan has said it would consider "response options" if NATO forces continued to violate its sovereignty.
Washington has stepped up missile strikes by unmanned drone planes in Pakistan's northwest, carrying out 21 in September, the highest for a month since it began such attacks in 2008.
Also Thursday, a video purporting to show Pakistani troops in the northwestern Swat region summarily executing a group of bound and blindfolded young men appeared on the Internet.
The military is investigating, the intelligence official said, although he believed it was likely a forgery by the Pakistani Taliban, distributed as propaganda.
(Additional reporting by Chris Allbritton, Javed Hussain and Kamran Haider; Editing by Ron Popeski and Philip Barbara)
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68T1SQ20100930?pageNumber=1
(Reuters) - Pakistani authorities blocked a vital supply route for NATO troops fighting in Afghanistan on Thursday after the killing of three soldiers in two NATO cross-border incursions, officials said.
Trucks and fuel tankers for foreign forces in Afghanistan were stopped at the Torkham border post in the Khyber tribal region near the city of Peshawar, hours after the raid.
"Yes, the NATO supplies have been stopped. It has been done locally," a senior security official told Reuters on condition of anonymity.
Aircraft from the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) initially crossed the border in the Kurram region briefly while targeting suspected insurgents who were firing on a coalition base from a position inside Afghanistan, an ISAF statement said.
They were then fired on by people in Pakistan, and crossed the border again to target that group.
"Operating in self-defense, the ISAF aircraft entered into Pakistani airspace, killing several armed individuals," the statement said.
The statement did not say if ISAF thought those killed were border guards, and when asked for clarification, an ISAF spokeswoman said both sides were still investigating the incident.
"This is the third incident of its kind during the past week," the Pakistani military said in a statement. Three soldiers were wounded, it said.
Pentagon spokesman Colonel David Lapan declined to elaborate on the details of the incident, but noted that a Pakistani statement said "their forces used rifle fire at the helicopters as a warning."
"You fire at helicopter in a combat zone, they usually take that as hostile and return fire," he said.
CRUCIAL ALLY
Pakistan is a crucial ally for the United States in its efforts to stabilize Afghanistan, but analysts say border incursions and disruptions in NATO supplies underline growing tensions in the relationship.
The United States has already stepped up missile strikes by its pilotless drone aircraft on militant targets inside Pakistan.
The bulk of non-lethal military supplies for NATO troops in Afghanistan moves through Pakistan.
Lapan said the Torkham border crossing closure had had "no immediate impact" on NATO resupply, but its possible effect would depend on how long it remained shut.
He noted that NATO has a variety of supply routes into Afghanistan, including others in Pakistan that remained open.
"We are in discussions with the Pakistani government and hope that we can resolve the issue," Lapan said.
"PROFOUND CONCERN"
The border row occurred as CIA chief Leon Panetta began a previously scheduled visit to Pakistan for talks with top military and political figures.
Panetta met President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani, army chief General Ashfaq Kayani and the head of the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, Lieutenant-General Ahmed Shuja Pasha.
Gilani expressed "profound concern" over increasing drone strikes and violations of Pakistan's airspace by NATO forces, he said in a statement.
Citing reports by Western security officials about foiling a militant plot to stage coordinated attacks in Europe, Gilani pledged Pakistan's help to thwart such plans if given "credible information in advance."
Panetta welcomed Pakistan's help in the fight against militants and said the U.S. government would look into its ally's complaints about border violations.
A senior intelligence official said border incursions into Pakistan were a "red line" and could lead to a "total snapping of relations."
Neither country could afford that, the official said, so it would be a disaster if further incursions took place.
"But we'll live with that or we'll die with that," he said. "We're in a state of war. We've lost more than 30,000 people since 2001. What more can we lose? Another 100,000? These incursions are not something we can tolerate."
Pakistan has said it would consider "response options" if NATO forces continued to violate its sovereignty.
Washington has stepped up missile strikes by unmanned drone planes in Pakistan's northwest, carrying out 21 in September, the highest for a month since it began such attacks in 2008.
Also Thursday, a video purporting to show Pakistani troops in the northwestern Swat region summarily executing a group of bound and blindfolded young men appeared on the Internet.
The military is investigating, the intelligence official said, although he believed it was likely a forgery by the Pakistani Taliban, distributed as propaganda.
(Additional reporting by Chris Allbritton, Javed Hussain and Kamran Haider; Editing by Ron Popeski and Philip Barbara)
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68T1SQ20100930?pageNumber=1
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sergente rehan
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The time is comming for the turn of Pakistan. Their ultimate goal was always Pakistan....we must wake up and open our eyes, these crazy politicians and generals will ruine us.
People just wake up now, it's time for a big change....we must stand up against U.S. agenda. Lets use again the slogan Now or Never!
Anway F**k U.S and nato.
People just wake up now, it's time for a big change....we must stand up against U.S. agenda. Lets use again the slogan Now or Never!
Anway F**k U.S and nato.
sergente rehan
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So you were not justifying Nato intrusions in Pakistan?
I wanna see if anything such happened agaisnt india, i'm sure you were not giving the same remarks.
We have the right to protect our borders beyond any reason presented by nato forces. As we already warned them in previous strikes, there was no more reason to warn them again and again without taking any counter measure. beside everything how many times you have to warn anyone before he understands that he must not act in the same manner again? They are just making joke of all these warnings. I'm proud of those soldiers who gave their lives to safeguard our border.
CAPTAIN AMERICA
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So you were not justifying Nato intrusions in Pakistan?
I wanna see if anything such happened agaisnt india, i'm sure you were not giving the same remarks.
We have the right to protect our borders beyond any reason presented by nato forces. As we already warned them in previous strikes, there was no more reason to warn them again and again without taking any counter measure. beside everything how many times you have to warn anyone before he understands that he must not act in the same manner again? They are just making joke of all these warnings. I'm proud of those soldiers who gave their lives to safeguard our border.
So its ok for the border guards to allow the Taliban into Pakistan, just not the NATO troops that are chaseing them.
sergente rehan
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Talibans are also harming us but atleast they are our open enemy and declare war against GoP and Army. I don't understand which is the U.S and nato stand? as they always killed our innocent civilian and our armed personal violating international laws.
American strikes are worse then Taliban ones as they are acting as our friend which always back stab you!
Jigs
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You can NOT cross over into a country and then attack their outpost. There are laws in place. If the U.S. feels insurgents are crossing over they can inform the outpost which in turn can deal with them or inform the officers of their crossing. The gunship alternatively could have simply left the outpost alone as well.
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