Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining?

[user1]

Last time Islam had an existential threat was during the Mongol invasions of 12th century. Mongols destroyed the centres of our civilisation: Baghdad, Balkh, Bukhara and many more.

But, something strange also happened during that time. The menace of Hashashin (Batiniyah, Khawarij) - a scourge of the Muslim world for centuries - were eliminated by the Mongol armies themselves and in the end Mongols converted to Islam founding Mughal dynasties of India, conquering areas up to Volga river and forming the famous Golden Horde whose territories lasted from Urals to the Danube and deep into Siberia.

Old Muslims were replaced by the new Muslims.

If He so willed, He could remove you altogether and replace you with new people: He has full power to do so. (4:133)

Something good came out of really really bad. History repeats! Fingers crossed!

thats why i say ulema or whatever should come out with a brand new interpretation,,,its the need of hour

You are right about that; Quran is written in a way that it will be open to interpretation for all the times to come in future, because, it is the last Message of Allah (SWT). Some verses were not understood in the past but now we can understand them in the light of new knowledge. That is why I have quoted the verses from Quran about the ambiguous verses and the time before a prophecy (correct interpretation) is fulfilled.

 

[he-man]

Last time Islam had an existential threat was during the Mongol invasions of 12th century. Mongols destroyed the centres of our civilisation: Baghdad, Balkh, Bukhara and many more.

But, something strange also happened during that time. The menace of Hashashin (Batiniyah, Khawarij) - a scourge of the Muslim world for centuries - were eliminated by the Mongol armies themselves and in the end Mongols converted to Islam founding Mughal dynasties of India, conquering areas up to Volga river and forming the famous Golden Horde whose territories lasted from Urals to the Danube and deep into Siberia.

Old Muslims were replaced by the new Muslims.

If He so willed, He could remove you altogether and replace you with new people: He has full power to do so. (4:133)

Something good came out of really really bad. History repeats! Fingers crossed!



You are right about that; Quran is written in a way that it will be open to interpretation for all the times to come in future, because, it is the last Message of Allah (SWT). Some verses were not understood in the past but now we can understand them in the light of new knowledge. That is why I have quoted the verses from Quran about the ambiguous verses and the time before a prophecy (correct interpretation) is fulfilled.

yes my main purpose was to highlight that point only.

peaceful verses must be declared more important than the gory ones

 

[jamahir]

once again u don't understand.

even in the animals the strongest one leads the back,,,gets the best female and so on and so forth.
thats what i meant.

sorry, but that's a very generalized statement. all of the cat species, except the lion. are either solitary creatures or equality-based groups. those creatures who live in packs are digusting dog-species creatures ( dog, wolf, hyena etc ) or the herbivore preys ( deer etc ) or big grazers ( elephants, bison etc ) or birds or insects.

i don't see the concept of "strong" in case of cats, mostly. cats are the most friendly, affectionate, caring and loyal creations known. great teachers to humanity.

and for progress the society needs to be based on merit and performance and not equivalence.

again, i don't know what you mean by "merit". it is one of those vague indian words that no one really knows the meaning of, but are thrown about in colleges, media and political rallies so please use simpler words this time.

as for "performance", it can be used to justify any wrong thing. be that college degree marks or stock exchange ranking or company sales target etc. but ultimately, what should exist is what is common sense, appealing to the intelligent mind, to the heart. which is why the occupy movements in the english-speaking nations since 2011. which is why the collapse of the indian it-bt-services industry and closure of hundreds of mba colleges in india. which is why people being thrown out of jobs in bangalore...

equivalence maybe a romantic word but impossible to implement as no two people are alike.

of course, no two people are alike. it would become so boring. but nobody can be allowed to be unjust or cruel to another. every relationship should be based on respect and justice, be that of parents/children or of officer/subordinate.

of course, there are always people who are true geniuses, prophets, revolutionaries, but they were that because they too wanted equality

thats why i say ulema or whatever should come out with a brand new interpretation,,,its the need of hour

the "ulema", "aalim", "ayatollah", "mullah" etc are essentially priests, and there is no priest-class in true islam. in fact, one reason islam came about was to eradicate the priests. so the said clergy category of people are illegal as per true islam. the quran is to be read by all muslims, as a book of knowledge, guidance and propagation. not to be blindly memorized, because that would be idolatry. but sadly, that is the case for many modern muslims now, especially in south asia, iran, gulf, south east asia.

as for new interpretation, please read this post again ( Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining? | Page 11 ).

---

okay. must go to sleep. it is six thirty in the morning

 

[he-man]

sorry, but that's a very generalized statement. all of the cat species, except the lion. are either solitary creatures or equality-based groups. those creatures who live in packs are digusting dog-species creatures ( dog, wolf, hyena etc ) or the herbivore preys ( deer etc ) or big grazers ( elephants, bison etc ) or birds or insects.

i don't see the concept of "strong" in case of cats, mostly. cats are the most friendly, affectionate, caring and loyal creations known. great teachers to humanity.



again, i don't know what you mean by "merit". it is one of those vague indian words that no one really knows the meaning of, but are thrown about in colleges, media and political rallies so please use simpler words this time.

as for "performance", it can be used to justify any wrong thing. be that college degree marks or stock exchange ranking or company sales target etc. but ultimately, what should exist is what is common sense, appealing to the intelligent mind, to the heart. which is why the occupy movements in the english-speaking nations since 2011. which is why the collapse of the indian it-bt-services industry and closure of hundreds of mba colleges in india. which is why people being thrown out of jobs in bangalore...



of course, no two people are alike. it would become so boring. but nobody can be allowed to be unjust or cruel to another. every relationship should be based on respect and justice, be that of parents/children or of officer/subordinate.

of course, there are always people who are true geniuses, prophets, revolutionaries, but they were that because they too wanted equality



the "ulema", "aalim", "ayatollah", "mullah" etc are essentially priests, and there is no priest-class in true islam. in fact, one reason islam came about was to eradicate the priests. so the said clergy category of people are illegal as per true islam. the quran is to be read by all muslims, as a book of knowledge, guidance and propagation. not to be blindly memorized, because that would be idolatry. but sadly, that is the case for many modern muslims now, especially in south asia, iran, gulf, south east asia.

as for new interpretation, please read this post again ( Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining? | Page 11 ).

---

okay. must go to sleep. it is six thirty in the morning

ya its 6:31,,,gotta go to lib to study,,,lol
see ya

 

[Rusty]

The issue here is very complex and nuanced.

The root issue is how will "Islam" deal with the modern world.
We have not figured out that yet. We have everything from people who want to go back to the stone age and shun all technology, to the other extreme of people who want to give up everything that makes us Muslim.

We the people, not outsiders, must make the choice of how we will move forward.
This task is complicated by the fact that we don't have a central authority and that we are super divided among ourselves.

I think this task will slowly be accomplished over the course of a generation or two, and in the mean time we will be suffering the consequences.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

There is a curse on Sunni Muslims due to their bad Karma on shittting on minorities. Muslims are big hypocrite who forever rant they are victim of discrimination. Probably feminist feel less victimize.

When Muslims are in charge, they are the worst abuser of different sect. Saudi, Malaysia, Pakistan, Egypt ..etc have been unanimous in imposing dhimmitude to their minorities.

The Syrian Sunni rally against Assad on the ground of discrimination. When Sunni rebel take over an area, they either shot, murder or force convert the non-Sunni. The other alternative is a heavy dhimmi-taxation that in sometimes, so heavy that it bankrupt the non-Sunni.

Sunni has committed untold sin on humanity and for this they may have incur the wrath of Allah. They have been deliberately acting foolishly and they must not blame Allah for their lack of wisdom.

Everywhere Sunni Muslims go, their sons suffered extremely low IQ, often failing in schools. In white man land, the Sunnis are the worst students, while East Asian aces the exam.

The Sunni land is in bloodshed and mess due to the mind of Sunni Muslims. The sin of Sunni Muslims are not restricted to fringe elements but they are very mainstream. When someone suggesting a repeal of apostasy law, you will see a large number of uncles and auntie protesting and rioting, shouting "Allah hu Akbar".

 

[jamahir]

Last time Islam had an existential threat was during the Mongol invasions of 12th century. Mongols destroyed the centres of our civilisation: Baghdad, Balkh, Bukhara and many more.

But, something strange also happened during that time. The menace of Hashashin (Batiniyah, Khawarij) - a scourge of the Muslim world for centuries - were eliminated by the Mongol armies themselves and in the end Mongols converted to Islam founding Mughal dynasties of India, conquering areas up to Volga river and forming the famous Golden Horde whose territories lasted from Urals to the Danube and deep into Siberia.

Old Muslims were replaced by the new Muslims

very interesting example you gave. i was about to drop to sleep but was tempted back to answer this

the hashasin of these modern times are taliban, al qaeda, deoband, khomenei's followers, tablighi jamaat, jemah islamiyah, hamas, ikhwaan, wahabi etc. the mongols were the saviors last time, will it be the russian military or north korea this time??

because russian culture was quite influenced by islam, right from the first true russian king, vladimir, to the much later national poet of russia, pushkin, down to the modern times of the soviet union which had muslim republics, and which had military alliances with proper muslim nations ( egypt, libya, iraq, syria, afghanistan, somalia etc ).

because north korea had military alliances with pre-2011 libya ( the jamahiriya ), still has with syria, still has with pakistan, will have with renewed egypt.

@vostok @ptldM3 @Syrian Lion @senheiser @Hasbara Buster @pak-marine @Azlan Haider

 

[he-man]

its not islam vs worls

but wahhabis vs world

 

[SouthDesi]

ya its 6:31,,,gotta go to lib to study,,,lol

BTW, What are you studying? Degree or Masters?

 

[he-man]

BTW, What are you studying? Degree or Masters?

post graduation,,,,md
u got to study everyday still,my session is gonna start next week

 

[Butchcassidy]

post graduation,,,,md
u got to study everyday still,my session is gonna start next week

Padhai karle kakae..DPG or All India?

 

[he-man]

Padhai karle kakae..DPG or All India?

all india,,,its done

 

[Butchcassidy]

all india,,,its done

Kuj baniya..heard they changed the format. Any plans for MLE?

 

[he-man]

Kuj baniya..heard they changed the format. Any plans for MLE?

cleared it.
they changed format 2 years ago,,,its a super stupid format though with exam happening across 14 days with different questions for different people.

people hated it

 

[Butchcassidy]

cleared it.
they changed format 2 years ago,,,its a super stupid format though with exam happening across 14 days with different questions for different people.

people hated it

Hehe... Chal veere best of luck.. Try for AIIMS.