Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining?

[Zarvan]

From Morocco to Indonesia, or say from Atlantic to Pacific, entire Islamic World is up in flames, or in poverty, or under despotic oppressive governments...and Muslim masses are in misery, and utter hopelessness. Syria and Iraq are totally destroyed by civil war, superpowers have invaded, plundered, and destroyed many nations of Islamosphere. Israel is currently bombing Gaza, a territory it already illegally occupies and has colonized it for decades. On political front, Muslim masses are deeply divided and there is no order. From the dreams of Islamic Caliphate, to the vision of extreme secularism--all of the political thoughts are colliding within the fold of Islam. Muslims are globally being painted as "the problem" or as the "other" in the equation of civilized vs the other. Seems like entire world is on one side, and Muslims are on other. Any hope of empowerment due to revolutions in Arab World are turned completely upside down---with even status-quo forces returning back to power with even worse oppression.

I was just wondering, is this the worst Islam/Islamic World has ever seen? People would bring Mongol Destruction but as a student of history, I'd not buy this argument. Mongol Destruction of Baghdad just shifted the power-center of Islam from Arab-Persians to Turks. Even after Mongol destruction, Islamic World quickly regained its position of being the superpower/top dog of the world under the leadership of the Islamic Turks (Ottoman Empires, Mughals, Timurids etc were the greatest/most-powerful/largest empires of their time...and all established by Islamic Turks). Islamic World remained the most and/or one-of-the-most powerful civilization on Earth for centuries to come after Mongol invasion. But today, forget about being the most powerful, Muslim countries are marching towards being the worst, the least powerful, and most pathetic amongst all available competition (China, India, Europe/America (West), Latin America, and Far East etc).

So again, are we living through the worst of Islam today? There seems to be no hope. No sight of recovering back. Things are getting worse and even more worse by the hour. Just today, read the article where Prince Bandar was quoted saying "1 billion Sunnis have had enough of the Shia. There will be a time when "May God help the Shia" would be reality in Middle-East" (He said it to American Intelligence Chief before 9/11. I guess those days have come).

Add to all that the sectarian hate and intra-Muslim bloodshed. Sectarian hate and intra-Muslim conflict has never been more worse than its today. And this is the time when when millions of Muslims have already been killed in past 50 years due to internal civil wars and outside invasions and so on.

So, is it the worse of Islam the history has ever seen? Is is the end of Islam beyond the point of recovery? Or is there any silver-lining out there for Muslims of the world?

(Please no mudslinging with secular vs Islamist one-liners etc. Try to be more critical in your responses).


@dexter @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Abu Nasar @Akheilos @Leader @Jazzbot @PWFI @HRK @RAMPAGE
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@SOHEIL @Targon @BLACKEAGLE @BDforever @Sher Malang @Afghan-India @TOPGUN @Rafi @@Donatello @wasm95 @Metanoia @@cabatli_53 @graphican @Mosamania @@American Eagle @BronzePlaque @@BordoEnes @@Malik Alashter @@Bubblegum Crisis @@LegionnairE @RiazHaq @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Nihonjin1051 @Marwat Khan Lodhi @OCguy @Thoryalai Zazai @@A1Kaid @Jigs @Awesome @Chinese-Dragon @Hyperion


@gambit I'd also like to hear what do you have to say about the issue..

---------------------

Please keep this as troll-free as possible.

Islam is going no where yes we are seeings some low thing but Islam would have ended if some how west can make sure the source ends that is Quran and Sunnah and they can't end and now Islam is the fastest growing religion in there countries and number off converts to Islam are increasing on daily bases and also birthrate in Europe of Muslims is all time high and people are coming more close to Islam than ever before in Muslim world too soon the rise would begin again we are facing troubles but we have reached the lowest point because we stopped following Quran and Sunnah but now as people are returning the rise will begin soon

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

First of all the title is " Blasphemous " I am using this word too often---. It is the current muslim that may be on the verge of extintion---but islam has the protection of our creator---muslims---OTOH they are not protected a species.

So---the question should have been---" is this the end of muslims "!

 

[The SC]

dude like i said, i dont wanna go into a religious argument, for me Islam ended the day of the last Hajj when the Prophet (P.B.U.H) recited the verses "This day have i completed you religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion"
which means that everything after that day was NOT part of religion and only part of History

Ended or started (completed)?
in reality Islam has no beginning and no end, in the Koran, Abraham was a Muslim. In nature we can see Islam all over the animal kingdom, everything is fed, everything is being taken care of. In the skies, every planet and every galaxy has it own path and their movements are being taken care of too...
Muslim nations today are neither poor nor backward, to the contrary, most of them are just starting to exploit their human and natural resources, they are making advances in every imaginable field, infrastructure is improving, huge projects are being implemented and Islam is re-surging as the real path to new heights. If the past is garant of the future, than it is the right path to the Muslim's new golden age.
While the chaos we see is real, anyone who has studied advanced physical sciences, knows that there is order in chaos:

Chaos theory

Meaning, that it depends from which angle you see it:

 

[HRK]

From Morocco to Indonesia, or say from Atlantic to Pacific, entire Islamic World is up in flames, or in poverty, or under despotic oppressive governments...and Muslim masses are in misery, and utter hopelessness. Syria and Iraq are totally destroyed by civil war, superpowers have invaded, plundered, and destroyed many nations of Islamosphere. Israel is currently bombing Gaza, a territory it already illegally occupies and has colonized it for decades. On political front, Muslim masses are deeply divided and there is no order. From the dreams of Islamic Caliphate, to the vision of extreme secularism--all of the political thoughts are colliding within the fold of Islam. Muslims are globally being painted as "the problem" or as the "other" in the equation of civilized vs the other. Seems like entire world is on one side, and Muslims are on other. Any hope of empowerment due to revolutions in Arab World are turned completely upside down---with even status-quo forces returning back to power with even worse oppression.

I was just wondering, is this the worst Islam/Islamic World has ever seen? People would bring Mongol Destruction but as a student of history, I'd not buy this argument. Mongol Destruction of Baghdad just shifted the power-center of Islam from Arab-Persians to Turks. Even after Mongol destruction, Islamic World quickly regained its position of being the superpower/top dog of the world under the leadership of the Islamic Turks (Ottoman Empires, Mughals, Timurids etc were the greatest/most-powerful/largest empires of their time...and all established by Islamic Turks). Islamic World remained the most and/or one-of-the-most powerful civilization on Earth for centuries to come after Mongol invasion. But today, forget about being the most powerful, Muslim countries are marching towards being the worst, the least powerful, and most pathetic amongst all available competition (China, India, Europe/America (West), Latin America, and Far East etc).

So again, are we living through the worst of Islam today? There seems to be no hope. No sight of recovering back. Things are getting worse and even more worse by the hour. Just today, read the article where Prince Bandar was quoted saying "1 billion Sunnis have had enough of the Shia. There will be a time when "May God help the Shia" would be reality in Middle-East" (He said it to American Intelligence Chief before 9/11. I guess those days have come).

Add to all that the sectarian hate and intra-Muslim bloodshed. Sectarian hate and intra-Muslim conflict has never been more worse than its today. And this is the time when when millions of Muslims have already been killed in past 50 years due to internal civil wars and outside invasions and so on.

So, is it the worse of Islam the history has ever seen? Is is the end of Islam beyond the point of recovery? Or is there any silver-lining out there for Muslims of the world?

(Please no mudslinging with secular vs Islamist one-liners etc. Try to be more critical in your responses).


@dexter @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Abu Nasar @Akheilos @Leader @Jazzbot @PWFI @HRK @RAMPAGE
@MastanKhan @Armstrong @Zizou @Jungibaaz @GreenFalcon @Evil Flare @rockstar08 @farhanalee7 @Multani @Zarvan @al-Hasani @Areesh @SHAMK9 @Ulla @Kaan @Devil Soul @Indos @KAL-EL @JonAsad @chauvunist @Marshmallow @Yzd Khalifa @Hazzy997 @Sinan @Azeri @rmi5 @haman10 @Serpentine @CENTCOM @Pukhtoon @ghilzai @Icarus @Chinese-Dragon @Arabian Legend @DESERT FIGHTER @Irfan Baloch @kalu_miah @idune @Al-zakir @Mav3rick @RazPaK @Alpha1 @Neptune @razgriz19 @KingMamba @Luffy 500 @AUz @Hyperion @Aether @Jaanbaz @Pakistani Exile @nair @Ayush @Manticore @Oscar @Fulcrum15 @blain2 @Chak Bamu @RazPaK @Informant @Imran Khan @DESERT FIGHTER @Umair Nawaz @qamar1990 @Abu Nasar @Slav Defence @Secur @slapshot @batmannow @BATMAN @MastanKhan @S.U.R.B. @RescueRanger @Raja.Pakistani @Rajput_Pakistani @Pukhtoon @pk_baloch @Patriots @Pakistanisage @Mugwop @Mirzay @Men in Green @Luftwaffe @LoveIcon @liontk @JonAsad @ghazaliy2k @Durrak @Devil Soul @Developereo @Darth Vader @Desert Fox @Cheetah786 @cb4 @Bratva @balixd @Air marshal@A.Rafay @Proudpakistaniguy
@SOHEIL @Targon @BLACKEAGLE @BDforever @Sher Malang @Afghan-India @TOPGUN @Rafi @@Donatello @wasm95 @Metanoia @@cabatli_53 @graphican @Mosamania @@American Eagle @BronzePlaque @@BordoEnes @@Malik Alashter @@Bubblegum Crisis @@LegionnairE @RiazHaq @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Nihonjin1051 @Marwat Khan Lodhi @OCguy @Thoryalai Zazai @@A1Kaid @Jigs @Awesome @Chinese-Dragon @Hyperion


@gambit I'd also like to hear what do you have to say about the issue..

---------------------

Please keep this as troll-free as possible.

Just read Surat Al-Mu'minun .......

 

[Indos]

Algeria for example - independence war against French, civil war against Islamists in the 90's, just last year a mass of hostages were taken at some oil field facility prompting massive Algerian intervention.

Bahrain - rebellion suppressed with Saudi help, last year i think. You gave it fine, i agree it looks fine on the outside, but if there was enough tension to start an uprising.....

Indonesia - Free Aceh Movement, Papua rebels.

Bosnia - massive riots in the recent months due to ineffectiveness of the government

Off the top of my head....

Aceh Province is in peace now (Aceh War: 1976-2005). The rebel has already embraced the republic and participated in our formal politics (Aceh region)

Papua Province is also in a relatively peace period since long time ago due to the fact that the rebel number is so small with so little weapon.

You can study the fact more on this list:

List of wars involving Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[punit]

How could you say that Muslims couldn't make their future as the past they had

well ! invent time machine then ! on a sanor note Times are no longer same. The era of empires and colonies are over. its all about power projection and influence in subtle ways now.

The caliphate were actually eras of knowledge for Muslims, look into the Abbasaid caliphate.

whatever it was .. its over long back and is not coming back anytime soon. like any empire Khalifat had its ups and downs. Old is not always gold. Its time to move on and grow in strength as per modern times.

or throwing your weight around through manipulations!


And day in and day out Indians tell me knowing history is necessary

Mind you I was just taking a step into History to show what bad is and if this is bad then that too was bad after which Islam hit the road to success....History is there to teach us not to ignore so you can repeat and live in a day's pride!

knowing is necessary and feeling proud of past glories is also fine,. what is not acceptable is living in past !

 

[humanfirst]

End of every organised religion is inevitable..Religions in its present form are requiring seruous whitewashing of their past stupidities and injustices to stay afloat in midst of modern evolved morality and social norms.In this age of internet and easily available information,religions cannot easily whitewash their past and get away with it.So get ready to say good bye to islam, hinduism, christianity and every other stupid religions out there..

 

[Finer]

Islam started with strange ways. Islam will return with strange ways as well; beautiful strange ways, Allahu Alim - God knows best.

 

[vostok]

very interesting example you gave. i was about to drop to sleep but was tempted back to answer this

the hashasin of these modern times are taliban, al qaeda, deoband, khomenei's followers, tablighi jamaat, jemah islamiyah, hamas, ikhwaan, wahabi etc. the mongols were the saviors last time, will it be the russian military or north korea this time??

because russian culture was quite influenced by islam, right from the first true russian king, vladimir, to the much later national poet of russia, pushkin, down to the modern times of the soviet union which had muslim republics, and which had military alliances with proper muslim nations ( egypt, libya, iraq, syria, afghanistan, somalia etc ).

because north korea had military alliances with pre-2011 libya ( the jamahiriya ), still has with syria, still has with pakistan, will have with renewed egypt.

@vostok @ptldM3 @Syrian Lion @senheiser @Hasbara Buster @pak-marine @Azlan Haider

Russian will save Orthodoxy and Christianity in general, although other indigenous religions - Islam and Buddhism will thrive in Russia.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Russian will save Orthodoxy and Christianity in general, although other indigenous religions - Islam and Buddhism will thrive in Russia.

I must agree that Russian treats minorities quite well today although Russian conquest of Siberia is very atrocious. All minorities seems to be contend in Russia except for the mad Chechen and Dagestani.

 

[vostok]

I must agree that Russian treats minorities quite well today although Russian conquest of Siberia is very atrocious. All minorities seems to be contend in Russia except for the mad Chechen and Dagestani.

In the Caucasus, Russia has no problems with the local people. There are problems with fools-terrorists funded and trained abroad.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Ended or started (completed)?
in reality Islam has no beginning and no end, in the Koran, Abraham was a Muslim. In nature we can see Islam all over the animal kingdom, everything is fed, everything is being taken care of. In the skies, every planet and every galaxy has it own path and their movements are being taken care of too...
Muslim nations today are neither poor nor backward, to the contrary, most of them are just starting to exploit their human and natural resources, they are making advances in every imaginable field, infrastructure is improving, huge projects are being implemented and Islam is re-surging as the real path to new heights. If the past is garant of the future, than it is the right path to the Muslim's new golden age.
While the chaos we see is real, anyone who has studied advanced physical sciences, knows that there is order in chaos:

Chaos theory

Meaning, that it depends from which angle you see it:

i think you confused my post a bit, i was trying to say that That day Islam was completed, no more addition to the QURAN or HADITH will ever happen which are the basis of Islam

 

[Dubious]

knowing is necessary and feeling proud of past glories is also fine,. what is not acceptable is living in past !

Who was living in the past? You need to broaden your vocabulary with sentences such as reflecting the past or maybe showcasing a glimpse of what happened vs what is happening...

 

[jamahir]

All minorities seems to be contend in Russia except for the mad Chechen and Dagestani.

in which case, i must ask you the name of the president of chechnya.

In the Caucasus, Russia has no problems with the local people. There are problems with fools-terrorists funded and trained abroad.

exactly.

Russian will save Orthodoxy and Christianity in general, although other indigenous religions - Islam and Buddhism will thrive in Russia.

vostok, i believe orthodoxy is closer to early christianity than the roman catholicism of western europe. except for the matter of idols, that is why orthodoxy can live in present russia side by side with leninist socialist and islam. what say you??

 

[Irfan Baloch]

End of every organised religion is inevitable..Religions in its present form are requiring seruous whitewashing of their past stupidities and injustices to stay afloat in midst of modern evolved morality and social norms.

a highly opinionated and subjective judgement which depends on the point of view and perception of every person about what defines

as stupidity , "evolved" Morality and Modern social norms.

I can poke fun at the collective intelligence of people who were conned again and again financially in the ponzi schemes and how very smart people saw that sub-prime market collapse "the morality" about GM food, genetic manipulation, privacy and believing in "big brother" and good intentions of those who are supposed to look after our money and our lives... but I leave it for another thread and another day.
how politicians/ bankers get a slap on their wrist due to an "error of judgement".

in "my" view intelligence and stupidity, morality and vulgarity are ALL subjective. and religion is not their limiting factor.


you whitewash or ban religion... it will be replaced by something else with same features and outcomes which people have fought against. its a nature of the beast

the beast we call Human.