Is There A Clash Of Civilizations?

[INDIC]

you have "shahi farman" from Maharaja? written in punjabi?
There are several written in Persian aka Farsi in Lahore museum.

Not starting a farsi-punjabi war. Just stating the facts.

Thank you

Farsi was used as a court language but it was never common man's language. That's why Urdu got originated.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Farsi was used as a court language but it was never common man's language. That's why Urdu got originated.

Oh Baba,

You don't have to start chasing me down Bihari i-style.

You didn't study anything and just keep on repeating stuff even if my post was a specific answer to Jutt sahib. And he was saying Punjabi was all over the place in Maharajas time. I just asked him for a proof of a shahi farman.

You say urdu urdu urdu.

But urdu is kind of a new kid on the block, becoming mainstream becoming popular only towards the last minutes of Mughal empire.

Ghalib preferred his poetry in Persian than in Urdu.

Then who do you think he was singing his poetry? only in the court?

Heck no!

Ghalib's listner was a commong UPites and Delhite who had a good command of Persian.

But you won't accept it. Just because your small village in Bihar didn't speak Persian.

peace to you my man, peace to you

 

[INDIC]

But urdu is kind of a new kid on the block, becoming mainstream becoming popular only towards the last minutes of Mughal empire.

Ghalib preferred his poetry in Persian than in Urdu.

Then who do you think he was singing his poetry? only in the court?

Heck no!

Ghalib's listner was a commong UPites and Delhite who had a good command of Persian.

You are wrong Bihari babu, only the elites could speak Persian language in those days.

 

[RKhan]

It should be ,
1- Qaid e azam misile or simply jinnah misile
2- Allama iqbal misile or simply iqbal misile
3- Liaqat ali khan misile or simply liaqat misile
4- Nishtar misile (cool name)
5- Chaudry rehmat ali misile or simply chaudry misile
6- sir syed misile
7- Sir agha khan misile

As long as it's a nationalistic name or scientific one I wouldn't mind.
I'd like to see an kalam missile too.

 

[Rig Vedic]

On the second point, the Indians are also denying reality. The fact is that the biggest draw for Islam was liberation from the local caste-based society. That is why Buddhists in Sindh backed MBQ over the local Hindu king, and why many south Asians converted to Islam. While it may be uncomfortable for Indians to admit this fact, we can see it happening even in modern day India where Christian missionaries allegedly have the most success amongst the dalits and lower caste Hindus.

No - Islam has never spread anywhere without political power. Always it was the rulers who were defeated / converted first, and only after that did the Sufis swoop in.

So it had more to do with military / political power equations than any caste issues.

It is true that missionaries are have had some success among disadvantaged groups in India. Generally Abrahamic religions appeal to disadvantaged people ... whereas the educated elites who are more philosophically inclined tend to be drawn towards Dharmic ideas. You see the same trend in the USA for example.

 

[RangerPK]

There is no religion except Islam which is acceptable to God.
People who worship idols and die doing so will go to hell for eternity.
If these people know what is better for them, then it would be better if they leave idol worship and take the Shahada, and if Allah willing, He would bless them with His mercy and send them to enter paradise where they will live for eternity in peace, with all their desires full filled.

Allah guides who ever he wills.

 

[Developereo]

No - Islam has never spread anywhere without political power. Always it was the rulers who were defeated / converted first, and only after that did the Sufis swoop in.

Islam was in south India and other non-Mughal parts of the subcontinent where no conquest had occurred.

the educated elites who are more philosophically inclined tend to be drawn towards Dharmic ideas. You see the same trend in the USA for example.

Most of these people in the West tend to be entertainment celebrities, and they are notoriously fad-driven. They follow anything which is perceived as "mysterious". These people also follow Kabalah and other mystical aspects of Abrahamic faiths. If they lived in the East, they would follow some obscure African system, just to be fashionably different from the masses.

Few people would describe them as philosophical or intellectual.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Islam was in south India and other non-Mughal parts of the subcontinent where no conquest had occurred.

Most of these people in the West tend to be entertainment celebrities, and they are notoriously fad-driven. They follow anything which is perceived as "mysterious". These people also follow Kabalah and other mystical aspects of Abrahamic faiths. If they lived in the East, they would follow some obscure African system, just to be fashionably different from the masses.

Few people would describe them as philosophical or intellectual.

There have been cases of a few people in a nation accepting Islam without Islamic rule - but they remained at the margins.

In every case where a nation became a Muslim majority nation, the ruler was always defeated / converted first. This is the case even in Indonesia and Malaysia - Muslims remained a very small minority until the ruler was converted.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Pakistanis see themselves as a representation of Islamic civilization, which India doesn't agree upon.

and India doesn't represent the Hindu civilization as its a secular nation.

 

[Developereo]

In every case where a nation became a Muslim majority nation, the ruler was always defeated / converted first. This is the case even in Indonesia and Malaysia - Muslims remained a very small minority until the ruler was converted.

That is true of all religions in the ancient world.

Buddhism spread throughout China, and Christianity in Europe, because of imperial mandate.
Same for Zoroastrianism in Iran.
The Vedas are full of military conquests of Vedic gods over nonbelievers, and India's history is replete with military conquests back and forth.
Hinduism spread to the Far East with the Cholas' military might.

 

[BeyondHeretic]

definitely not , there were minor clashes in the 90s and that was trolling

 

[bronxbull]

Pakistanis see themselves as a representation of Islamic civilization, which India doesn't agree upon.

and India doesn't represent the Hindu civilization as its a secular nation.

Syama,Talk for yourself and dont talk for everyone.

India is a Hindu Majority and thus,Hindu country as much as Pakistan is a Muslim country.

 

[Ayush]

Syama,Talk for yourself and dont talk for everyone.

India is a Hindu Majority and thus,Hindu country as much as Pakistan is a Muslim country.

u are wrong...

 

[anyrandom]

u are wrong...

No he is right. Secularism doesn't mean to reject this apparent truth. India may not be a hindu country in the sense that hindus need to get preferential treatment as muslims get in pakistan.

But there is no doubt that hinduism as a culture unites the republic of india with diverse peoples,languages and beliefs. Hinduism is the core identity of India. Without Hinduism, India CANNOT exist.