Is the JF-17 Really a Tough Sell for China and Pakistan?

[Bratva]

You will get some FICTIONAL story ; he will narrate something which never happened

Fictional story ? How much do you know about JF-17 ?

 

[Alphacharlie]

Kid,

I have never stated that it is cleared for missions at 11 G's----there is no fighter aircraft in the world cleared for that kind of G's. Cleared for and able to are two different things----.

Your stupidity has no limitations-----every current new fighter aircraft manufactured in the last 30 years can DO 11 G's---which does not mean that the pilot can take that number---if the pilot cannot take the 11 G's---then what is the purpose of 11G's----no reason---.

You own LCA would tae 11 G---but will never be cleared for that---it will also have G limiter on it.

Gentlemen -

Let give some more clarity....

a) In Todays warfare when a Heat Seeking or a Radar active Missile is fired you will have no time to show your stunts of Top gun. Either you launch Counter measures, Sharp Banks, inverted U or a do a immelman and run...Max G would be 5....Guess what by the time I would have typed this note Pilot would have been "Dust"

b) If you say 11 Gs - Gentlemen human body with years of massive training cant take over 9 G. Post which recovery time is so long that you are dust.

c) in Todays war fare its shoot and scoot gone are days when dog fights will happen. you shoot from 80 Km and wait...for the "Fish"

D) jf 17 Might be able to do a 12G but for a fraction of second you stretch more your cowlings will deshape, Bomb racks rip off, Fule tank connectors pipes bending, Battries start oozing out, radar slides damaged, ...Your Bird will start developing structural defects which will reduce lifecycle age of Bird, create headache for Ground maintenance crew....

e) In Todays war most jocks do Generally more than 5Gs on Centrifuge, to save A.c WEAR and Tear...The objective is take plat form up fire and bring back so that Routine maintenance time is less so that bird is ready for next sortie at soonest..

Not that Indian Pilots are Gods not that Israeli Pilots are Gods not that Pakistani Pilots are gods...

It all boils down to how much you want to ruin your machine and how fast.

 

[The SC]

Arabs will definitely buy Thunder .....the time they were buying Super Mashaks, that time they also had the money to buy anything from the rest of the world ...Good diplomacy is all Thunder would need ...Pakistan has offered almost every military skills to its Arab allies ....this might become one ground for exporting Thunder to some of them ...its Block-2 variant of course ...again I am stressing its carrier killing ability as well ...and you are right ...It can come par with Block-52 and lesser in price and with no strings attached as well !

The only strings attached for now are the Russian engines. That might not bother Egypt that much, but Saudis and others who are not using any Russian air-tech will prefer a European Engine. Both Egypt and GCC countries, will want western avionics and AESA radars as well for their home made versions, Something Pakistan was struggling to acquire but was denied for some reason or another. Anyhow, The Arab version of the thunder will be more westernized than the actual one; A good thing for Pakistan in the long run too.
I do believe that the actual J-17 version (mostly block 2), with the capabilities of the F-16 block 40, is a superb modern aircraft, with up to date technologies and weapons.
There is a big (huge) niche in the international market of fighter planes comprising replacements for the Mig 21s, the J-7s, the F-5s, etc... And there is no other new fighter being made to replace them, apart from the J-17 thunder, So anyone can deduce any conclusion he wants, the rules of the market say that the potential and possibilities of selling the Thunder are real and quite big.
Any real competition comes from used airplanes, and that is limited in time...and in procurement minds.

 

[SQ8]

Fictional story ? How much do you know about JF-17 ?

Zilch, but to admit something good about it would mean permanent denial of nirvana by the cosmic karma.

 

[Alphacharlie]

Hi,

Why are you telling me that---I already know it----please share it with your colleague.

Janab - I wish they could understand...

 

[Tshering22]

This is indeed intriguing. China has offered the platform with the promise to upgrade the requirements further. Even then, it has not been able to translate the pitch into purchases. Surprisingly, China continues the line of J-7s for African nations, which is itself eating the market for FC-1s.

If the Chinese cease the production of J-7s, the FC-1 can take control of the export market.

 

[MastanKhan]

Janab - I wish they could understand...

I understand my brother---. It is like my kids---they say similar things----make me want to tear my hair out---.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

I don't see any sense in this article but not understanding the international arms sales scenario. Egypt SiSi has to fulfil his obligation against the support they have provided to establish his government so we have no idea where actually these deals has been finalised and on Monday only mock exercise is gonna be done.
Egypt economically doesn't seems strong enough to carry such expensive weaponry and ME is going to fund them to buy these but what about lifecycle cost ? French are trapping them in an expensive game as we all know how insanely expensive their offerings and there spares are.
About JFT, above all it's meant to fulfil our need first then others will be considered. Mean while this platform will be matured and more options would be available in configurations.

 

[Su-11]

You realize majority of the 4th gen platforms have the ability to go 11G's? USAF F-16 pilots routinely test fly and go around 9.5 - 10 's (for fun, not instructed to do so for any missions). The G limit is really due to the limitations of the human body. Not because the airframe can't take 10 or 11 g's.

Did you know that a 747 can go super sonic? and can also do limited rolls sub sonic? BUT....after a few attempts, good luck flying it as you'd have compromised the structural integrity of the plane. Similarly, in fighter jets (4th gen or above), you'd put pilot's brain /body integrity at risk if you tried 11G's. But the aircraft itself is capable of doing it.

In 1985, an F-15 was tested to go beyond 30 G's, the airframe was so bent and the wing skin was wrinkled up badly (that's all metal and composites). So ability is one thing, flying at safe, optimal performance is a whole different issue, and that's what's instructed in flight schools.

Plus, every mission and fuel / weapons' configuration has its own G recommended limits so pilots have to see their manuals pre-flight to understand mission configuration for optimal and safe flight maneuvers.

Kid,

I have never stated that it is cleared for missions at 11 G's----there is no fighter aircraft in the world cleared for that kind of G's. Cleared for and able to are two different things----.

Your stupidity has no limitations-----every current new fighter aircraft manufactured in the last 30 years can DO 11 G's---which does not mean that the pilot can take that number---if the pilot cannot take the 11 G's---then what is the purpose of 11G's----no reason---.

You own LCA would tae 11 G---but will never be cleared for that---it will also have G limiter on it.

I dont need parallels and half stories about what fighters can or cannot do, i need links for a fighter called JF-17s and its 9Gs limit which is claimed. A MiG-25 can also do a 10Gs although it was cleared for just 4, but the interceptor is practically dead after that or needs a lot of replacing to do if its lucky enough to land. There is a reason manufacturers give ratings, and if the ratings are LESSER than the pilot tolerance of 9Gs, then it means the fighter is not cleared for 9Gs..plain and simple. If it says 9Gs, yes then it means it is either cleared for the 9Gs or even more than that and is limited by 9G limits imposed by the FBW. But if it cant EVEN REACH the general pilot tolerance level of ratings then be careful when you pull that stick in this compromise of a plane.

Oh.. and just because fighters made by other countries who spend billions on R&D for their fighters to be the best, has 9Gs, doesnt mean all fighters made will reach that figure. All the 9Gs ratings which you see, isnt achieved by magic or a born right of every fighter, its hard work and hard money which brings forth that.

 

[MastanKhan]

I dont need parallels and half stories about what fighters can or cannot do, i need links for a fighter called JF-17s and its 9Gs limit which is claimed. A MiG-25 can also do a 10Gs although it was cleared for just 4, but the interceptor is practically dead after that or needs a lot of replacing to do if its lucky enough to land. There is a reason manufacturers give ratings, and if the ratings are LESSER than the pilot tolerance of 9Gs, then it means the fighter is not cleared for 9Gs..plain and simple. If it says 9Gs, yes then it means it is either cleared for the 9Gs or even more than that and is limited by 9G limits imposed by the FBW. But if it cant EVEN REACH the general pilot tolerance level of ratings then be careful when you pull that stick in this compromise of a plane.

Oh.. and just because fighters made by other countries who spend billions on R&D for their fighters to be the best, has 9Gs, doesnt mean all fighters made will reach that figure. All the 9Gs ratings which you see, isnt achieved by magic or a born right of every fighter, its hard work and hard money which brings forth that.

 

[Viper0011.]

I dont need parallels and half stories about what fighters can or cannot do, i need links for a fighter called JF-17s and its 9Gs limit which is claimed. A MiG-25 can also do a 10Gs although it was cleared for just 4, but the interceptor is practically dead after that or needs a lot of replacing to do if its lucky enough to land. There is a reason manufacturers give ratings, and if the ratings are LESSER than the pilot tolerance of 9Gs, then it means the fighter is not cleared for 9Gs..plain and simple.

Oh.. and just because fighters made by other countries who spend billions on R&D for their fighters to be the best, has 9Gs, doesnt mean all fighters made will reach that figure. All the 9Gs ratings which you see, isnt achieved by magic or a born right of every fighter, its hard work and hard money which brings forth that.

Just some friendly advise, you are making a fool out of yourself by writing these utterly none sense posts. The JFT from its airframe, looks like a cross between the -18 and the -16 and if you see it's aerobatics on YouTube, you'll easily find out that it can do 9 g's.

 

[wiseone2]

1# China
2# Myanmar
3# Azerbaijan
4# Zimbabwe
5# Turkey
6# Serbia
7# Egypt
8# Saudi Arabia
9# Sri Lanka
10# Nigeria

Did I miss anyone? Now that's a long list of failures. These deals were either "in the final stages of the deal" or were "genuinely interested" or fight trials took place in the countries and lost the tender, and some in the list hilariously claimed that the deal was signed.

Now an even longer list of countries who were "interested" in the JF-17.

Indonesia
Bangladesh
Syria
Bolivia
Ethiopia
Morocco
Venezuela
Iran
Lebanon
Albania
Malaysia
North Korea
Sudan
Congo
#Argentina
Tanzania
Thailand
Eritrea

So much for selling like "hot cakes" which was predicted in 2003 by the PAF airchief Saadat(IIRC).


Keen?? People are dying for a limited air war here. Every one dreams of MiGs and Sukhois shooting down Junk fighters.

I am sure all of them looked into the aircraft. China lack of deployment is number one red flag.

 

[killerx]

its really a big debate its if other country's are buying JF17 or not, it its full filling complete requirements of PAF, and Block 2 under construction, its just start of JF17 program, now the important part of the entire sales story is 3 country request transfer of technology for JF17 now that explains the interest in the program its self, of course theirs not big $$$ for Pakistan and china.

 

[Dalit]

Kid,

I have never stated that it is cleared for missions at 11 G's----there is no fighter aircraft in the world cleared for that kind of G's. Cleared for and able to are two different things----.

Your stupidity has no limitations-----every current new fighter aircraft manufactured in the last 30 years can DO 11 G's---which does not mean that the pilot can take that number---if the pilot cannot take the 11 G's---then what is the purpose of 11G's----no reason---.

You own LCA would tae 11 G---but will never be cleared for that---it will also have G limiter on it.

LMAO owned him. Spot on bro.

 

[MastanKhan]

This is from another forum:---enjoy the read

" Why this obsession about making exports ? The JF-17 Thunder has already served its main purposes. Which is to provide the PAF with an affordable replacement for its large fleet of Mirage III, Mirage 5, Chengdu J-7 and Nanchang Q-5's. And also to give Pakistan's aerospace industry a shot in the arm and push it to a new plateau. Export should be a extra that comes with it. But now at least on the internet it has become the main issue---Franklin