Is the JF-17 Really a Tough Sell for China and Pakistan?

[Manticore]

Without IFR probe and dual seater, jf-17 would face difficulties in getting buyers while exporting it with rd93.

The 'cheap' slogan associated with jf-17 ..e.g you can buy 3 jft in the price of an f16 didnt help either. It was a stupid way of marketing a fighter aircraft. While selling a war machine you first tell its capability so that the potential buyers know the weapon is capable enough.

The fighter should have been shown only to select countries once blk2 dual seater was operational. Unveiling it to the open market was perhaps premature.

However it has the potential to go a long way as its production is backed by gov/paf which is not a private entity and its r&d cost is low as it has the same team at cac which has been working on j10.

Seams like the arabs dont feel that ToT / production line development is important for creating a strong aviation base in their country.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Without IFR probe and dual seater, jf-17 would face difficulties in getting buyers while exporting it with rd93.

The 'cheap' slogan associated with jf-17 ..e.g you can buy 3 jft in the price of an f16 didnt help either

The fighter should have been shown only to select countries once blk2 dual seater was operational. Unveiling it to the open market was perhaps premature.

However it has the potential to go a long way as its production is backed by gov/paf and its r&d cost is low as it has the same team at cac which has been working on j10.

True that. !!! And what is the cost of j10 ?

 

[MilSpec]

Why doesn't china market the FC20, it might have better luck as it is more comparable to f16 and Mig29's, along with them making some headway with the AL31's local replacement.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

why Egypt choosing second hand mirage or 2nd F16 for more money than JF17 which is 15 mil $ ?

Egypt faces threats from Zionazi entity and needs proven fighters that will be paid by oil rich Arab states. They did buy 118 K-8 Karakorum trainers from Pakistan/China.

 

[rockstarIN]

Purchasing mirage 2000 + 20 rafale make sense a good and deadly combination and the weapons are same.

 

[Khalid Newazi]

See the recent updates about the Pak-Afghan relations ....Ashraf Ghani is being liked in Islamabad ....JF-17 can't replace a Mig-29 ...but sure it can offer you everything for a homeland defense ....do not forget its carrier killing abilities as well ...!

Whatever the relations are it is still faraway from friendly relations between the two. Also given Afghanistan's alliance with India, Pakistan will not want its top technologies falling into Indian hands.

 

[Kompromat]

Pakistan will perhaps build ~ 300 units for PAF and PN. With China recently testing its own newly built prototype, it becomes likely that PLAAF might opt for Block-III option to replace its old F-7s and A-5s. Egypt will lose by buying used Mirages, Rafales and Migs because they won't be building them at home which means foreign dependence as always. Talks with Saudis are still ongoing, they wanted a version powered by EJ-200 to have engine commonality with their Typhoons.

 

[Manticore]

Personally I think if egypt gets rafale, paf might be able to exercise against it. Right now we have the saudi delta canard eurofighters and chinese su30s

I dont think its a good move by egypt - they need to grow their industry keeping in view that they have a big military. 5th gen fighter options would be few and not all countries could buy the one they want .. politically or economically speaking. At that time most of the 4th gen production lines would close as well. It would be difficult for the arabs to build a 5th/6th gen fighter right off the bat and that too without co-production with a non arab country. Not many countries offer ToT and production line for a 4/4+ gen fighter so easily.

 

[Sage]

Mind you Modern day Mig 21 is the complete as far as am concern. Even is Tejas can achieve what Mig 21 did for these years it will be a great success for Single engined light fighters like Jf 17/ Tejas / Gripin . More over JF -17 is the advanced variant of J-7 project of Chinese. JF -17 is the export variant with new multi role and added fire power for today's scenarios

And exactly if Egypt can afford Rafale then they can well go for it. It's a beast for any air force . But if they choose mirage 2000 / F16s at the same price tag of 15 mil then it will be considered as blow for export prospective. As lots of second hand Mirage are freely available in the market. China can boost it's sale by inducting few Jf 17 a squadron or so. It can boost the confidence of the fighter. As it's new to the scene. Where as Mirage and f16 are combat proven for many decades

Modern planes can deliver as good as Mig-21 ....probably better because of the new tech available ...Mig 21 was a USSR project ...available to it's allies and everyone else after it broke down ...It got lucky as well because it saw many wars as well ...compare the specs and different roles of JF-17 with Mig-21 and you can see how advanced it has gone over Mig-21 ....JF-17 was the advanced variant of J-7 ...not anymore ...it has taken the shape of a full fledged platform now ...The Block-2 is going to attract a lot more customers I tell you ....PAF itself is interested in the Block-2 that means to say that PAF means to add a real punch to it .....Rafale cannot be compared to Thunder ...It all depends upon your need ...and I feel going for a new Thunder is far better than going for a 2nd hand Mirage ....The frequent carrying out of Exercises around the world can easily fill the gap between those who are combat proven and those who have flown in the simulated combats which are close to real combat scenarios ...thanks to the previous wars ...!

Pakistan will perhaps build ~ 300 units for PAF and PN. With China recently testing its own newly built prototype, it becomes likely that PLAAF might opt for Block-III option to replace its old F-7s and A-5s. Egypt will lose by buying used Mirages, Rafales and Migs because they won't be building them at home which means foreign dependence as always. Talks with Saudis are still ongoing, they wanted a version powered by EJ-200 to have engine commonality with their Typhoons.

Sir jee, a Squadron of J-11 for PN may not be a bad option too

Whatever the relations are it is still faraway from friendly relations between the two. Also given Afghanistan's alliance with India, Pakistan will not want its top technologies falling into Indian hands.

The Indians influence is to be vanished soon ....but I do agree to the part where some Afghani Pilot could deflect with a Thunder all the way to Farkhor AFB ....Block-1 was the realization of a dream project I must say ....Block-2 shall have some real customers ....!

 

[Ind4Ever]

Modern planes can deliver as good as Mig-21 ....probably better because of the new tech available ...Mig 21 was a USSR project ...available to it's allies and everyone else after it broke down ...It got lucky as well because it saw many wars as well ...compare the specs and different roles of JF-17 with Mig-21 and you can see how advanced it has gone over Mig-21 ....JF-17 was the advanced variant of J-7 ...not anymore ...it has taken the shape of a full fledged platform now ...The Block-2 is going to attract a lot more customers I tell you ....PAF itself is interested in the Block-2 that means to say that PAF means to add a real punch to it .....Rafale cannot be compared to Thunder ...It all depends upon your need ...and I feel going for a new Thunder is far better than going for a 2nd hand Mirage ....The frequent carrying out of Exercises around the world can easily fill the gap between those who are combat proven and those who have flown in the simulated combats which are close to real combat scenarios ...thanks to the previous wars ...!


Sir jee, a Squadron of J-11 for PN may not be a bad option too

That's Wat exactly my point . And Mig 21 not lucky because of conflicts it had to fight but because of pure capability which lived till now. And going for second hand mirage for jf 17 price is not going to help future deals .

And any idea on price of J10, j11 and block 2 Jf17 ?

 

[Sage]

That's Wat exactly my point . And Mig 21 not lucky because of conflicts it had to fight but because of pure capability which lived till now. And going for second hand mirage for jf 17 price is not going to help future deals .

And any idea on price of J10, j11 and block 2 Jf17 ?

Every plane has a political background ...Mig-21 also have one apart from the fact that what it is capable of ....Ref#Arab-Israel Wars ...Vietnam War ...Indo-Pak War ...all these wars were fought within a span of 2 decades ! ....Block-2 price is yet to surface along its enhanced abilities as well ...but why are you asking the prices of J-10 and J-11 ? By the time they will have their own upgrades and would be expensive as compared to JF-17 Block-2 ?

 

[rockstar08]

Pakistan is itself short of at least 30 JF-17's , we must have at least 70-80 birds till now ... and block 2 is still in the cover of Mysteries , but we know it will have a Refueling system , and increase tons of weapon package ...
i dont think any Arab country will think about JFs because they got what world wants , Cash they can buy any bird they want ... look at the RSAF , they got so many birds but all are exported but they didnt got any project to build their own ... aka foreign dependence ..
its ok if we dont get any buyers , but this plane must satisfy the needs of PAF .. and with time it will mature anyway , so many planes are flying today which are not battle proven ... as Pakistan economy improves , we can put more cash in R&D in this project , buy French EW suites for thunder , and it will come close or ever par with F-16' blk 52's ... but the thing is we need to have it in numbers ,since 2007 , we only made 50 blk 1 Jf-17s which is very slow production ..

 

[karan.1970]

Pakistan is itself short of at least 30 JF-17's , we must have at least 70-80 birds till now ... and block 2 is still in the cover of Mysteries , but we know it will have a Refueling system , and increase tons of weapon package ...
i dont think any Arab country will think about JFs because they got what world wants , Cash they can buy any bird they want ... look at the RSAF , they got so many birds but all are exported but they didnt got any project to build their own ... aka foreign dependence ..
its ok if we dont get any buyers , but this plane must satisfy the needs of PAF .. and with time it will mature anyway , so many planes are flying today which are not battle proven ... as Pakistan economy improves , we can put more cash in R&D in this project , buy French EW suites for thunder , and it will come close or ever par with F-16' blk 52's ... but the thing is we need to have it in numbers ,since 2007 , we only made 50 blk 1 Jf-17s which is very slow production ..

Last we heard, it was 50 birds till date and 2 squads. the 3rd squad was still under consideration. Are you sure of this 70-80 number. That is enough to have 4 squadrons of JF 17 and not 2

 

[Ind4Ever]

Every plane has a political background ...Mig-21 also have one apart from the fact that what it is capable of ....Ref#Arab-Israel Wars ...Vietnam War ...Indo-Pak War ...all these wars were fought within a span of 2 decades ! ....Block-2 price is yet to surface along its enhanced abilities as well ...but why are you asking the prices of J-10 and J-11 ? By the time they will have their own upgrades and would be expensive as compared to JF-17 Block-2 ?

Just asking for price ... I don't know. As it can well be in the range of 20 mil for j10 and 30 mil for j11 ?

 

[rockstar08]

Last we heard, it was 50 birds till date and 2 squads. the 3rd squad was still under consideration. Are you sure of this 70-80 number. That is enough to have 4 squadrons of JF 17 and not 2

i say " we must have 70-80 birds by now " .... our production rate is slow ...actually very slow