'Is Singapore my home, daddy?'

[Audio]

Define "rich"? What you are saying is foreigners less Maid & Construction workers are all rich?? Makes no sense
Total non residents in Singapore are about 1.86 Million, 43% are non PMET which by your statement leaves about 1 Million so called "rich" foreigners. (and almost any rich PMET works in a bank, are you saying 1 Million foreigners all work in Banks?)




What a bunch of BS, Foreigners are good for Singapore but without them our country would still stay strong because our GDP comes from our key strengths which are shipping, oil refining etc, long before foreigners came we were already strong.

Businesses like coming to Singapore where its good to do business, and when the businesses came Foreigners came as well Singapore being so safe your daughter can walk the streets at 3 am or take a taxi without fear of getting raped or something nastier.

Our national reserves at 2007 was 234 Billion, this came from accumulation long before foreigners flooded the country and without so call Oil or natural reserves to contribute. It was all a result of good governance since 1980's.

Personally I don't have any issues with foreigners, and I do enjoy the interaction with my teammates from India, Germany, France and UK (exceptions are some uppity ones that think Singapore owes them for their so called contribution pfft, IMO not happy F*ckoff some other person will take your place in a heartbeat)

Unfortunately Singapore does not have a social welfare net, people listen to LKY and GCT to pick up skills in Uni like engineering to keeps Singapore Core strength up only to find the new government has put emphasis on other industry like finance that pays umpteen times more while opening the floodgates to foreigners in some misguided policy to boost the population. If the government gave social benefits it would be alot different.

Singapore is too good a place to let any Tom dick or harry to stroll in, everyday I get calls from agents looking to place their India, Myanmar, China etc job seekers within the firm.

At the end of the day only a minority of the population are benefiting from the rental income and other income streams of foreigners. The rest of the populace are struggling day to day and that needs to be addressed.

Luckily the government is already taking strong steps in this area by making it harder for business to employ foreigners without placing locals first (like many other countries), but its needs to be stronger. Its the governments fault really for creating this mess which they are now trying to clean up before the 2016 elections.

Good post. I also observed the audacity of the immigrant population claiming they are the reason for success in Europe.
Delusions like, Indians are ruling class in UK and alike.....quite funny.

 

[Anonymous user]

Good post. I also observed the audacity of the immigrant population claiming they are the reason for success in Europe.
Delusions like, Indians are ruling class in UK and alike.....quite funny.

Thankfully I have the good fortune so far of working with decent folks of many nations. In fact the ones I try to help with most with regards to family and other bits is an Indian chap who is fantastic person. Down to earth and really decent.

But I suppose at the end of the day citizens of that nation have the last say, many a time in London/Australia I had people tell me to go back home etc. And though my school fees are way higher, or I pay taxes and what not I am there to benefit from something their country has to offer so its still within their right cause it is their country plain as that.

 

[AADHAAR]

Define "rich"? What you are saying is foreigners less Maid & Construction workers are all rich?? Makes no sense
Total non residents in Singapore are about 1.86 Million, 43% are non PMET which by your statement leaves about 1 Million so called "rich" foreigners. (and almost any rich PMET works in a bank, are you saying 1 Million foreigners all work in Banks?)

What a bunch of BS, Foreigners are good for Singapore but without them our country would still stay strong because our GDP comes from our key strengths which are shipping, oil refining etc, long before foreigners came we were already strong.

What is the total FDI in singapore since last 3 or 4 decades ?

Even the refinery belongs to Shell .. and it is a huge refinery, compared to the oil requirements of Singapore. So, really for exports. Now Shell, needs to employ the best in the world experts to run their costly refinery.

Ditto for all the big investment banks ... they need the best talent in word .. to trade in the 3rd biggest financial center for FX in the world. Billions of dollars are at stake.

And the 12K per month mininum salary hardly worrries the banks ... perhaps, a few entry level analysts may be affected...and those level jobs in banks any way attract the freshly out singapore graduates. Those are jobs where the banks pay to juniors just to "learn" the job. Rising higher is solely on.... well whatever ... capability, luck , politics , go-getter , or even a "big swinging d1ck" ... but whatever it is .. Singaporeans don't get any preference in rising over others, in fray.

But let's say, if Singapore were to impose only singaporeans rule ... the banks will be the first to fly out.

It makes no sense to trade billions of dollars with anything less than the best .. and there are perhaps less than 10% of these positions where Singaporeans would qualify to be the "best in the world". (just look at ratio of singaporeans to world population ... and there is no reason to belive that singaporeans are particularly "gifted" over rest of the world in talent).

And not to add, even those "best in the world" Singaporeans may actually want to work in investment banks in London or New York .... so, immediately you get into trouble into filling even 10% of those seriously sensitive jobs with singaporeans.

But then, the salaries on these jobs are paid by global revenues of the banks (.. singapore market itself, isn't that large to support so much staff at such salaries). And the clients are also spread out across Asia ... in Indonesia, India, China, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam... Africa, Latam .. even Europe and US.

Pretty stupid to close the banks .. by stupid "protectionism". That's what made singapore different.

Though, the key fact still remains that Singapore can't be compared to India or China ... it's small enough that quite a few rich people can come over and make it rich. For India and China, there are not sufficient rich people to fill these countries with riches. They are just too big.

 

[Lightningbolt]

Indians are the main troublemakers in Singapore. I've visited that country and when I visited a place called 'little India', it was very dirty compared to other places. Indians live in that area and it stinks of curry, rubbish on the floor, unclean, extremely noisy, typically arrogant Indians running the shops.

I'll be blunt here whether anyone likes or or not, Indians are a cancer on this planet. They bring all the bad things that humans possess.

Sure there is the odd Chinese and others that cause problems, but I can assure you that Indians are problematic as a whole with very few exceptions.

Most non-Indian Singaporeans look down on Indians as very low class people even though they don't say it out loud because its too controversial. They have the same opinion of Indians that we have here in China.

 

[AADHAAR]

Indians are the main troublemakers in Singapore. I've visited that country and when I visited a place called 'little India', it was very dirty compared to other places. Indians live in that area and it stinks of curry, rubbish on the floor, unclean, extremely noisy, typically arrogant Indians running the shops.

well, visit chinatown .... good for you, perhaps.

albeit it isn't as clean as marina bay sands, either.

I'll be blunt here whether anyone likes or or not, Indians are a cancer on this planet. They bring all the bad things that humans possess.

In singapore, if I ask someone, "Can you help me with -this- or -that- ?".. they reply, "Can, Sir".
[btw.. funny singlish, but they don't say "yes, please"]

It's this "Can, Sir" not the one you said.

You need to be good at English, if you want to be in singapore.

If you speak "Can, Sir" .. you are in .. if you say "cancer" ... you'll get deported.

(and btw, not me. Singaporeans will deport you).

A few of your bus driver friends met that fate, a few months back. Albeit one of them is still in singapore jails.

Sure there is the odd Chinese and others that cause problems, but I can assure you that Indians are problematic as a whole with very few exceptions.

Most non-Indian Singaporeans look down on Indians as very low class people even though they don't say it out loud because its too controversial. They have the same opinion of Indians that we have here in China.

this is quite why singaporeans (of chinese background) call themselves singaporeans, not chinese.

they are different from the kind of your like.

quite same is true about singaporeans of indian or malay background; they call themselves singaporean too.

 

[Anonymous user]

What is the total FDI in singapore since last 3 or 4 decades ?

Even the refinery belongs to Shell .. and it is a huge refinery, compared to the oil requirements of Singapore. So, really for exports. Now Shell, needs to employ the best in the world experts to run their costly refinery.

Ditto for all the big investment banks ... they need the best talent in word .. to trade in the 3rd biggest financial center for FX in the world. Billions of dollars are at stake.

And the 12K per month mininum salary hardly worrries the banks ... perhaps, a few entry level analysts may be affected...and those level jobs in banks any way attract the freshly out singapore graduates. Those are jobs where the banks pay to juniors just to "learn" the job. Rising higher is solely on.... well whatever ... capability, luck , politics , go-getter , or even a "big swinging d1ck" ... but whatever it is .. Singaporeans don't get any preference in rising over others, in fray.

But let's say, if Singapore were to impose only singaporeans rule ... the banks will be the first to fly out.

It makes no sense to trade billions of dollars with anything less than the best .. and there are perhaps less than 10% of these positions where Singaporeans would qualify to be the "best in the world". (just look at ratio of singaporeans to world population ... and there is no reason to belive that singaporeans are particularly "gifted" over rest of the world in talent).

And not to add, even those "best in the world" Singaporeans may actually want to work in investment banks in London or New York .... so, immediately you get into trouble into filling even 10% of those seriously sensitive jobs with singaporeans.

But then, the salaries on these jobs are paid by global revenues of the banks (.. singapore market itself, isn't that large to support so much staff at such salaries). And the clients are also spread out across Asia ... in Indonesia, India, China, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam... Africa, Latam .. even Europe and US.

Pretty stupid to close the banks .. by stupid "protectionism". That's what made singapore different.

Though, the key fact still remains that Singapore can't be compared to India or China ... it's small enough that quite a few rich people can come over and make it rich. For India and China, there are not sufficient rich people to fill these countries with riches. They are just too big.

So what if Shell pumped in FDI, would they have done so if the Singapore government was unstable? They could have choose Malaysia or Indonesia no? They needed a location in ASEAN and Singapore was the ideal choice quid pro quo. China also benefitted from FDI and so did India, are you saying without foreigners your country would have never made it?
Singapore local banks have been rated the strongest Banks in Asia, OCBC is rated 3rd strongest balance sheet (not bad for a small nation) The Asian Banker | AB500 - Asia Pacific's Strongest Balance Sheet

Singapore has been a wealth base and always has been, investment bank profit centres in Asian markets are strongest in HK, we are wealth base because of Malaysia and Indonesia corruption which we “assist” in parking funds (why else do you think we have a 10,000 bill). We have government stability and hence the funds come here. We owe more to Malaysia and Indonesia then any so call investment banks (in fact local banks pay more now then foreign banks).

Now majority of the foreign PMETS are basically running operations in Singapore which support Investment banking operations in profit centre locations like HK, London etc. Although Ops they are still paid a shitload of money but sooner or later the jobs will be routed to lower cost locations like India or Philippines once enough automation goes in. (I should know I lead one of the first BPO outsourcing initiatives for the European banks back in 2000)

Government policies should always protect its citizens (not to mention we have no welfare system), the previous rules were way too lax and no one is saying to force out all foreigners and make things hard for business. But if they implement some rules to put citizens first and big business can’t handle it then best they move out, hell they can fly out for all I care really. Which country puts foreigners in front of citizens anyway can you name one?

Anyway I think you’re too worked up, majority of the populace are concerned about foreign PMETs taking jobs in sectors like engineering, construction etc which is really bread and butter industry. Finance plays a less than 10% contribution to Singapore’s GDP. I decided to reply back because of your arrogance about Singapore collapsing without foreign contribution which is total and utter BS, yes we took in FDI (which developing country didn’t in the 80’s) but to get here was purely off the backs of the working locals.

To Sum it up the government better get their act together before the next GE, if banks wanna fly out so be it. Investment banks are fly by night businesses anyway, Singapore would be better off with some real industries that make a solid investments in the country.

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

I was thinking of joining some biotech firms in Singapore.... but it seems India is OK for me...

 

[Anonymous user]

I was thinking of joining some biotech firms in Singapore.... but it seems India is OK for me...

Truth be told I am not sure how the biotech industry here is doing, alot of rah rah and investment by the government at one point but a friend of mine went in the industry found the prospects and pay quite low and decided to work in the US.

Anyway dun let the sentiments distract ya, Singapore is still one of the more welcoming countries (i.e you can find friends and feel at home immediately). Of course having a good attitude and being more open minded is a definite plus.

Singapore government just need to strike a balance and strike it soon, we cannot have foreigners coming in by the dozen while the populace themselves either cannot find work or get replaced by them. In any country that's a recipe for disaster.

Hope you find your calling.

 

[AADHAAR]

@ Anonymous user ... where in the world did you find me "arrogant" !!!!!

And needless to even add .. when have I said anything against singapore. I find it a very reasonable country.

 

[Anonymous user]

Read your sentence below, clearly you have a few things on your mind
1. Just because you pay low low taxes, and rental to your landlord and pay GST you feel that your contribution to the nation is more than enough that the 80% of the local populace who do not benefit from your rental or government welfare should keep quiet about what the government is doing.

2. You clearly express a wish to go back to India (since your taxes should benefit India instead) yet choose to work here cause its Singapore that wants you not the other way round.

3. You company needs you in Singapore, begged you to work here so you can transfer their European earning to benefit Singapore. Clearly Your the man.

4. Last one this one makes me laugh, without Foreigners Singapore will be no improvement over Indonesia and Malaysia (both are great countries btw with "huge populations"). Where you even in this region during the 80's & 90's. Heck Malaysia today is even a much better improvement compared to India, least their highways are superb and been there since the the 90's and they are busy building a better rail system.

Even @Audio gets what I mean about you claiming that all Singapore greatness is due to foreign influence. (see Audio's post). Is that not called arrogance?

@ Anonymous user ... where in the world did you find me "arrogant" !!!!!

And needless to even add .. when have I said anything against singapore. I find it a very reasonable country.

Foreigners are good for Singapore .. without them Singapore could have been same as Malaysia or Indonesia... perhaps worse, it doesn't hvae oil.

Yes, some singaporeans may feel low ... if they are unable to buy a $ 2,500 ladies purse in Marina Bay Sands ... It's just a matter of expectations. .and comparing yourself to super-rich.

I pay tax to the Singpaore govt, which is slightly less than the annual per capita income of singapore.
(natually, I would have liked Indian govt to earn those taxes of my hard work, since they paid for my education / growing up !!)

A singapore family enjoys on the rent I pay them, which again totals slightly less than the per capita income. The landlord does not work .. just enjoys on the rent !!! -- otherwise a real estate agent (perhaps, for namesake) .. real estate agents can only be singaporeans.

Then, whatever I buy .. atleast my living expenses ... Singapore govt earns a 7% GST, and the shopowners their profit margin.

---- Add all these items, I am nothing but an agent transferring money from Europe to Singapore .. since my employer who eventually pays for everything which I pay for (thru my salary) is a European bank and serving clients mostly outside Singapore.

It's a funny world ... I want my tax money to go to Indian govt, I don't want to pay exhorbitant rent in a costly city, where spoilt landlord makes merry on the rent and does no work, and you buy everything $hit costly in the stores. And I still do it, because my savings would be somewhat higher than what I could save in Mumbai doing a similar damn job.

The the funny thing is that. .I think I am doing singaporeans a favour. .and the singaporeans think they are doing me a favour. :shrug:

 

[AADHAAR]

Read your sentence below, clearly you have a few things on your mind
1. Just because you pay low low taxes, and rental to your landlord and pay GST you feel that your contribution to the nation is more than enough that the 80% of the local populace who do not benefit from your rental or government welfare should keep quiet about what the government is doing.

2. You clearly express a wish to go back to India (since your taxes should benefit India instead) yet choose to work here cause its Singapore that wants you not the other way round.

3. You company needs you in Singapore, begged you to work here so you can transfer their European earning to benefit Singapore. Clearly Your the man.

4. Last one this one makes me laugh, without Foreigners Singapore will be no improvement over Indonesia and Malaysia (both are great countries btw with "huge populations"). Where you even in this region during the 80's & 90's. Heck Malaysia today is even a much better improvement compared to India, least their highways are superb and been there since the the 90's and they are busy building a better rail system.

Even @Audio gets what I mean about you claiming that all Singapore greatness is due to foreign influence. (see Audio's post). Is that not called arrogance?

If you are level headed, you response clearly smacks of your own arrogance.

Holding a different view, is not equal to "arrogance".

As for charity, nobody is doing a charity here.... neither me; nor my employer nor singapore.

It's plain business ... suits everybody, else everybody here is free to go his own way.

I just opined that it doesn't make sense for singapore to kick the foreigners and foreign companies out -- they are not here for charity; they are here to make money; and they earn money for singapore in the process.

It doesn't make sense to me for singpaore to close the doors to competiotion; become less competitive; become a "welfare" state -- in other words become more like the other less open countries. And this is my opinion, not "arrogance".

If you are intolerant towards different points of view, it's your problem not other people's "arrogance".

If singapore were to say that only foreigners allowed must have a salary of atleast 20k dollars a month; it's not that singaporeans enmasse will move into the jobs going at 10-20k per month. What will happen is that those jobs will move out of singapore. It would singapore's "arrogance" if it cares a $hit to those who are bringing money into singapore.

And trust me, drop by drop even a filled tumbler can go empty. I haven't got much personally to lose.. really. I was employed in NYC for some time before with not this great job, and even mumbai with overall personal satisfaction not too less than here.

And with a xenophobia (for which singapore isn't currently known for), singapore would be overall be a lower option, to what I could otherwise have. Perhaps, singapore govt is better informed of global realities than yourself.

 

[Anonymous user]

No offence but your views are BS, Singapore was strong due to a strong government which created a stable nation and attracting FDI which hired many locals which in turn built this nation. And this was way before investment bank ever came into the picture. Your statement reminds me of some other people who says that without British colonization India would have never amounted to anything (is that true? you tell me)

Of course no one is here for a charity you got that right, and I never said to kick out all foreigners (quote the part that made you think so?) I said government policies were to lax and they must place citizens first. Either you misunderstood that or you think that its not acceptable??

As you said this is no charity case, companies located here because this is a world class city state, good infra, water, electric etc at a rate cheaper than equivalent cities like New York or London. Hell contractors taken on board in Singapore (foreigners included) work pass 10 - 12 hours daily no complaints. In UK contractors work 8 hours which means 8 hours and that's at a 1500 - 5000 GBP daily going rate (I know cause I work with them). Banks are not stupid, a simple manpower change is not going to change things for them unless it was extremely drastic (i.e only hire locals). They look at other things as well like our weak manpower laws (in UK not a week goes by without some lawsuit), and reputation, location etc. If another city had all these factors they would be there already, why move to a city halfway round the world when Glasgow or Poland serves as a equally good platform? India is out as I am well aware of the various strikes/blackouts/floods/protest etc which hamper my Wipro operations quite frequently

As for the people Singapore is unique ultimately the government here decides and plan what they want the populace to study by allocated quotas in certain industry they deemed good for the nation. Imagine a government that made it hard for you to study anything but engineering and later sells you out by opening the engineering market to foreigners. That's ridiculous, least if people were given choices of what they wanted to do in life then they might not be so unhappy.

Our government is actually very very authoritarian and in some places have less freedom compared to China but people laud the SG govt yet frown on China's one because one benefits them and another doesn't convenient don't you think?

This is not xenophobia, this is a demand for the government to put the citizens first the same people who heeded the governments call for building the nation and then get sold out. LKY and GCT would have not allowed this to happen in their watch.

Ironically my family makes up the top 0.5% of the Singaporean HNI and we actually gained a lot from our land banks bought by my forefathers due to this foreigner influx and property boom. But money is not everything, the people of the nation should be happy and benefit as a whole.

Luckily change is happening, should be fun to watch.

If you are level headed, you response clearly smacks of your own arrogance.

Holding a different view, is not equal to "arrogance".

As for charity, nobody is doing a charity here.... neither me; nor my employer nor singapore.

It's plain business ... suits everybody, else everybody here is free to go his own way.

I just opined that it doesn't make sense for singapore to kick the foreigners and foreign companies out -- they are not here for charity; they are here to make money; and they earn money for singapore in the process.

It doesn't make sense to me for singpaore to close the doors to competiotion; become less competitive; become a "welfare" state -- in other words become more like the other less open countries. And this is my opinion, not "arrogance".

If you are intolerant towards different points of view, it's your problem not other people's "arrogance".

If singapore were to say that only foreigners allowed must have a salary of atleast 20k dollars a month; it's not that singaporeans enmasse will move into the jobs going at 10-20k per month. What will happen is that those jobs will move out of singapore. It would singapore's "arrogance" if it cares a $hit to those who are bringing money into singapore.

And trust me, drop by drop even a filled tumbler can go empty. I haven't got much personally to lose.. really. I was employed in NYC for some time before with not this great job, and even mumbai with overall personal satisfaction not too less than here.

And with a xenophobia (for which singapore isn't currently known for), singapore would be overall be a lower option, to what I could otherwise have. Perhaps, singapore govt is better informed of global realities than yourself.

 

[AADHAAR]

^^^ other things apart, the chinese lizard gives a "racist" angle to even this (by "thanking" not the issue being discussed, but his twisted racist thoughts) .. even without knowing anonymous user is a singaporean of whichever ethnicity - indian, chinese or malay.

don't know if anonymous user is a typical singaporean or not --- but almost all singaporeans (of any ethnic background), invariably call themselves singaporean, not indian, chinese or malay.

even "PRC" chinese are foreigners here .. as as "Indian" Indians !!!! --- my friend once asked an "indian looking person": are you indian? (with the intention of further asking for indian restaurant), he replied, "no, singaporean". but yes, he could guide us to indian restaurants which he very well knew. ditto same experience with my condo-neighbour, " are you chinese?" reply- "no, singaporean".

And they are right, if they live here, this is their country and home.

 

[Anonymous user]

I try not to discriminate (ultimately everyone at some level does), Singaporeans can be an odd lot I have seen racist terms used on Indians, Pinoys and other nationality by the Singaporean Chinese which makes me uncomfortable and this is not what Singapore represents. On the other I once seen a coffee shop Auntie (Singaporean Chinese) cracking jokes with a Bangladesh construction worker buying coffee teaching him the coffee shop lingo. Good and Bad its all there

Our government is trying to strike up a balance between foreigners and locals, but the locals were made to jumps hoops since young especially those without resources and if the government should take all steps to help them besides giving them dead end offers like being taxi drivers etc (I am referring to unemployed PMETs here), even government organization don't prioritize on hiring locals says a lot. Some taxi drivers with cancer driver their cabs up to the last day they drop dead.

The main things the government should assist with are local firms hiring locals people in bread and butter sectors (manufacturing/engineering etc). Industry like finance and biotech firms run by MNC's should be cut some slack since as you rightly said they bring in the people with the skill sets which the locals do not otherwise possess (Evident from my day to day interaction with locals vs foreigners in the firm).

Anyway if the government does not find a balance soon it will just be detrimental to nation as a whole.

Ps I'm probably not a typical Sinkie, most Singaporeans have a less pragmatic look on the situation. I just think we have to strike some balance before the pot bubbles over.

^^^ other things apart, the chinese lizard gives a "racist" angle to even this (by "thanking" not the issue being discussed, but his twisted racist thoughts) .. even without knowing anonymous user is a singaporean of whichever ethnicity - indian, chinese or malay.

don't know if anonymous user is a typical singaporean or not --- but almost all singaporeans (of any ethnic background), invariably call themselves singaporean, not indian, chinese or malay.

even "PRC" chinese are foreigners here .. as as "Indian" Indians !!!! --- my friend once asked an "indian looking person": are you indian? (with the intention of further asking for indian restaurant), he replied, "no, singaporean". but yes, he could guide us to indian restaurants which he very well knew. ditto same experience with my condo-neighbour, " are you chinese?" reply- "no, singaporean".

And they are right, if they live here, this is their country and home.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Thankfully I have the good fortune so far of working with decent folks of many nations. In fact the ones I try to help with most with regards to family and other bits is an Indian chap who is fantastic person. Down to earth and really decent.

But I suppose at the end of the day citizens of that nation have the last say, many a time in London/Australia I had people tell me to go back home etc. And though my school fees are way higher, or I pay taxes and what not I am there to benefit from something their country has to offer so its still within their right cause it is their country plain as that.

Aren't you of indian origin yourself...