Is Rifled gun on Arjun tank a mistake?

[Omega007]

i have heard that DRDO is developing the smoothbore gun to be incorporated into the Karan MBT(popularly known as the FMBT) but not in arjun 2.But i need clarification about the loader.in the arjun we use the russian type loader which is manual.The world has moved to automatic loader.is that why we need 4 crew compared to its counterparts like Type 99 which does with 3???

Bro,you need to get your facts correct.
First of all,Arjun doesn't use Russian type loader.Arjun uses German/American/British type loader or Human loader or Manual loader.

Secondly,Russians are the 1st who started to use automatic loaders in their tanks like T 64,T 72,T 90 etc.
There are two different kinds of autoloader.One is the CAROUSEL developed by Soviets and used on all Chinese (ZTZ 96,ZTZ 99 etc),Russian,Ukrainian,Pakistani and former Warsaw pact nation developed tanks.There is also two sub classes of CAROUSEL loader.

The other class of auto loader is a newer system developped by GIAT of France for their Leclerc tank.A version of this autoloader is also fitted on South Korean K 2 Black Panther mbt.

I shall describe the different autoloaders and their respective pros and cons later.

 

[DARKY]

SORRY but I couldn't get your point.Can you PLEASE clarify a bit.
THANX. . . . . . .

MB29A3 is fired at a muzzle speed of 1500m/s and still penetrates 800mm at 2000m... Although It has very highly energetic propellant charge as compared to older rounds which have archived 1700-1800m/s.

200m/s of extra speed does not matter If one have a better round working.

 

[ptltejas]

Recently india has tested BUSK. BUSK means BMP Urban Survival Kit. It hasBMP-2 Vehicle having special Net cover built bWith Composite materials. Can somebody add photo of it. I cant do it. I read it in safari-india science magazine. But not find photo of same on net.

 

[Omega007]

MB29A3 is fired at a muzzle speed of 1500m/s and still penetrates 800mm at 2000m... Although It has very highly energetic propellant charge as compared to older rounds which have archived 1700-1800m/s.

200m/s of extra speed does not matter If one have a better round working.

That means you have mixed up things mate.
First of all,you should have told not fired at Maximum 'CHAMBER PRESSURE' and not 'Vellocity'.Because the round is fired at the maximum vellocity possible in that particular range of chamber pressure.

Secondly,DM 53/63 aren't fired at lesser vellocities;their mussel vellocity is 1750 meter/sec and 1700 meter/sec respectively when fired from Rheinmetall L55.

And your last sentence is also not correct.If we assume it to be correct,then we have to assume that the ultimate vellocity of M 829A3 which has heaviest penetrator should be around 3000 meter/sec and that too when fired from that L44 gun!!
Hope you got my point. . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[DARKY]

And your last sentence is also not correct.If we assume it to be correct,then we have to assume that the ultimate vellocity of M 829A3 which has heaviest penetrator should be around 3000 meter/sec and that too when fired from that L44 gun!!
Hope you got my point. . . . . . . . . . . .

The M829A3 cartridge has a total weight of 22.3 kg and length of 892mm. It uses 8.1 kg of RPD-380 stick propellant, accelerating a 10kg projectile to a muzzle velocity of 1,555m/sec. The penetrator uses depleted uranium; the sabot is built of composite materials.

120mm Tank Gun KE Ammunition

3000m/s would blow off the gun... can L44 stand such pressure.

 

[Omega007]

120mm Tank Gun KE Ammunition

3000m/s would blow off the gun... can L44 stand such pressure.

My friend,it seems you didn't read my post before replying.I never told the mussel vellocity of M 829A3 is 3000 meter/sec,I'm not insane.
I was actually replying to one of your posts.There you wrote:
'Rather they are just a little more than half of it in case of American M829A3'.
Now tell me what one has to get from that statement.With my little brain,it seemed to me that you were trying to say that,the M 829A3 can be fired at almost double its current vellocity of 1550 meter/sec which means close to 3000 meter/sec!!If you take a look at my post,you will get to see that I already told it was impossible.

So as you can see,I was just replying to your post. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[Broccoli]

That is my question also , Even Challenger is moving towards incorporating Smoothbore why not Arjun ?

Why Challenger 2 will not use smoothbore.
British Army Challenger 2 Tank - Why it is not using the Leopard 2 L55 Smoothbore - YouTube

 

[ptltejas]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/fcs-2006.jpg

 

[IND151]

Let me try to answer your doubt.
The rifled gun is indeed problematic not due to lack of power but more due to its shorter longevity as the grooves wear out very rapidly and has to be changed more frequently than smooth barrel guns.
But rifling doesn't impact the performance of FSAPDS rounds (much) if you can properly design the sabot.Actually,FSAPDS rounds don't spin (or not let to spin) even when fired from rifled guns.Why??Because we use bearings into the sabots,so when the round is fired from the gun the sabot around the penetrator rod start to spin but the rod itself doesn't spin and remains as linear as if would have been fired from a smooth bore gun.

Now,coming to ARDE L/52 rifled gun.According to the official website of ARDE,this gun can withstand maximum chamber pressure of 840 mpa or 8400 Bar which is beyond the capability of even the all powerful Rheinmetall L/55 which can withstand upto 7500 bar.And the present ARDE unitary longrod FSAPDS rounds are fired at chamber pressure of 620 mpa as per official website which is much higher than the latest Rheinmetall DM 63 (500 MPa).
Now,the ARDE MkI FSAPDS rounds are fitted with a 780mm long 8 kg penetrator which is fired at 1700 meter/sec according to the OFB site.So you can see that the Arjun's gun has got almost the same initial mussel velocity of Rheinmetall L/55 (1750 m/sec).So it's not true that ARDE L/52 can't generate enough power.
Now coming to HEAT part-a CL 20 based HEAT round for Arjun is already under development.
Now coming to use of international ammo part-well,standard NATO FSAPDS rounds can't be directly fired from ARDE L/52 but the penetrators can be imported and then fit them with indigenous sabots and charges and you can have what you wanted.But current penetrators are well upto the job and a new self sharpening round is now under testing (not published in media yet but you can count on my words as my dad works in PXE,Balashore).

please give link for the concerned claim