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Is PDM government using FIA and IB to target PTI?

I was thinking same thing.

PDM using by bribing FIA. IB etc to destroy PTI and to defame Army to weaken it. 1 shot 2 kills. Or maybe each one (PDM and Establishment) using each other to destroy common enemy… and the real fight will be after that !
But hard to believe.

Wanted PDF members to look at it from a different angle. Can it be possible Pmln/Pdm is doing this out of revenge by using FIA, IB, Police, dacoits, mafias. We don't really know how powerful FIA and IB are, noone talks about these agencies but only talk about ISI/MI.

Looking at history, the army had to topple Nawaz Sharif government when they could have easily twisted his arm, Musharaff couldn't control CJ iftikhar Chaudary and had to declare emergency and even that failed, Raheel Shareef could not stop PmlN government from going after General Musharaff, Musharaff had to hide in military hospital and then he was forced to go dubai until his death, army had to create military courts to prosecute terrorists when they could have forced the judges to do it? Dawnleaks and anti Raheel Shareef propaganda on Geo? ISI paying millions to Pmln and others to stop PPP from coming to power during 1990s.

It could be possible military is not behind everything but Pmln is playing it dirty to create hatred and division between the 2. PDM knows they're finished so are fighting for survival. Like Rana Sanullah said, its either us or Imran Khan.

I do think Pmln and military will be at each other throats soon. The history is the judge.
 
We all had discussions on many topics but didn't really touch on the role of FIA and IB on targeting PTI, their role in the arrests, propaganda, false cases, blackmail, torture. How exactly powerful are these civilian intelligence agencies, all under the control of PM and interior ministry. One of their mission is to infiltrate political opposition and then destroy/harm them, excuses can be made up ofcourse. Are they powerful enough to act without the orders of the ISI, MI, can they be misused by Military agencies or misused by governments without the influence of ISI, MI.



@Meengla @_NOBODY_ @ghazi52 @VCheng @313ghazi @SaadH @Mirzali Khan @Drexluddin Khan Spiveyzai @Dreamer. @Maula Jatt @Ikbal @khansaheeb @FuturePAF @python-000 @El Sidd @PanzerKiel @truthseeker2010 @SQ8 @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Jango @PakFactor @Pak Nationalist @AsianLion @Path-Finder @The Eagle @The Accountant @LeGenD @RescueRanger @Goenitz @SecularNationalist
PPP zardari crimenals corruption mafia is the key player in PDM & who ever bring PPP in Karachi done a fantastic job & the main role of PPP for collapse of PAKISTAN economy by destroying Karachi what ever PPP mafia doing in Karachi no one care's...
 
.,.,.
Your watchman from the border, more guarding your language and thinking.


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We all had discussions on many topics but didn't really touch on the role of FIA and IB on targeting PTI, their role in the arrests, propaganda, false cases, blackmail, torture. How exactly powerful are these civilian intelligence agencies, all under the control of PM and interior ministry. One of their mission is to infiltrate political opposition and then destroy/harm them, excuses can be made up ofcourse. Are they powerful enough to act without the orders of the ISI, MI, can they be misused by Military agencies or misused by governments without the influence of ISI, MI.



@Meengla @_NOBODY_ @ghazi52 @VCheng @313ghazi @SaadH @Mirzali Khan @Drexluddin Khan Spiveyzai @Dreamer. @Maula Jatt @Ikbal @khansaheeb @FuturePAF @python-000 @El Sidd @PanzerKiel @truthseeker2010 @SQ8 @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Jango @PakFactor @Pak Nationalist @AsianLion @Path-Finder @The Eagle @The Accountant @LeGenD @RescueRanger @Goenitz @SecularNationalist

Principally - FIA and IB should not be answerable to ISI and MI but to Interior Ministry and Courts. There can be a system in place to allow these organizations to exchange information for COIN and nabbing most wanted individuals if necessary.

Unfortunately - When individuals in authoritative positions decide to misuse their options, what can be done? This is where judiciary comes into play.

But PTI-led government was busy undermining judiciary as well. Remember the Faez Isa episode?

Judiciary provides checks and balances in the system.
 
For sure, this is the worst form of State repression I have seen in Pakistan since Zia's suppression of PPP between 1977-79+.
But don't ask me if I am the least bit sympathetic to Imran Khan as a person! My opinion about him changed overnight after his Speaker threw out the NCM in April 2022 and I have seen nothing since then to change my changed-views!!
And I think I am generally correct about most things! (Half joking!).
 
But PTI-led government was busy undermining judiciary as well. Remember the Faez Isa episode?

Undermining the Judiciary?? It was more than just that. Imran was a Fascist and arrogant person as a cricketer as we knew him from the 1970s and 80s and him becoming the PM showed he had not changed one-bit. A leopard cant change its ... so why would a 70-year old change his ways? Judiciary is just the tip of the ice-berg of we know as Imran's over-reaches. Anyone remembers how 13 kg of Heroin was put in Rana Sanaullah car's trunk? EVEN Fawad Chaudhry had called that wrong!!

But of course Imran's blind admirers would white-wash all his crimes and follies. In their hatred for PDM they are rooting for an utterly morally bankrupt, self-absorbed, Narcissist fool. Have they considered the old Urdu saying: 'Nadaan dost se Dana Dushmen Behter'?

Imran was all about power and 'image' building. But then this fool, adding to his follies, tried to perpetuate power, while in decline, by challenging the Establishment over the appointments of some topmost slots in the military. Had Imran done that for some 'Civilian Supremacy' motives then I'd understand that and even support that. But this was all about Imran's greed for power.
The rest is history unfolding in front of us....
 
It could be possible military is not behind everything but Pmln is playing it dirty to create hatred and division between the 2. PDM knows they're finished so are fighting for survival. Like Rana Sanullah said, its either us or Imran Khan.

I do think Pmln and military will be at each other throats soon. The history is the judge.

Although IB and FIA are powerful, but no one has enough balls within these organizations to stand up in front of a High Court judge and give him BS, unless they are given some assurances by those that actually run the country.

Actually, FIA does do some good work, barring their politically motivated actions.
 
Principally - FIA and IB should not be answerable to ISI and MI but to Interior Ministry and Courts. There can be a system in place to allow these organizations to exchange information for COIN and nabbing most wanted individuals if necessary.

Unfortunately - When individuals in authoritative positions decide to misuse their options, what can be done? This is where judiciary comes into play.

But PTI-led government was busy undermining judiciary as well. Remember the Faez Isa episode?

Judiciary provides checks and balances in the system.

It would be good if actually PM and Interior ministry has total control of FIA and IB, but as usual this will make the sitting government very powerful, in Pakistan its a culture to be sold to the highest bidder, these powerful guys must be making millions for doing favours, targeting opposition etc. What can we do? Cannot trust the establishment and also civilian governments.

I remember Faez Isa episode, didnt really took too much notice of it but IK admitted it was a mistake, but it shows the government does have the power to do alot, Rana Sanullah case is another one, guilty or not guilty but he must 100% want to humiliate PTI, we can sense the hatred in the press conferences, Nawaz Sharif is also furious because he believes IK was used by establishment to remove him as PM.

One point on TLP is they were declared as terrorists by PTI government and banned, leader was arrested for 6 months without any charge, social media activitist were targeted, youtube, twitter, Facebook account removed, ofcourse the excuse was he is trying to destabilise Pakistan and cause fitna, another excuse was Indian agents were on twitter trying to light the fire, Pti somehow found proof. Exactly the same tactics are being used against PTI but now PDM is saying Pti is trying to destabilise Pakistan and foreign hands are involved, twitter, YouTube propaganda is the same. All aimed at institutes.

Back in 2010s we talked about 5th generation warfare, how the enemies will somehow turn the people against the judiciary and army, and then spread hatred and disinformation to destabilise the nation, then slowly bring it down and then destruction will follow. I would never imagine it would actually happen, even if PTI is correct and establishment is evil, the fact is that 5th generation warfare is in full effect.

I always thought PTI and Dr Tahir ul Qadri are perfect to destroy 5th generation warfare against Pakistan, both pro Pakistan politicians, educated and have the youth support, want to unite Pakistanis and Pakistan zindabad slogans chanted all over Pakistan, fouj zindabad slogans chanted but look at where we are now. Complete disbelieve.

When Iraq was attacked we all knew Syria is next on the hitlist, I thought Usa will invade but slowly they used social media, government mistakes to start a civil war, the rebels are heavily trained and funded by foreign powers. Whether right or or wrong, the end result was Syria is destroyed.

For sure, this is the worst form of State repression I have seen in Pakistan since Zia's suppression of PPP between 1977-79+.
But don't ask me if I am the least bit sympathetic to Imran Khan as a person! My opinion about him changed overnight after his Speaker threw out the NCM in April 2022 and I have seen nothing since then to change my changed-views!!
And I think I am generally correct about most things! (Half joking!).

Thank you for your valuable comment, its always easy to support the government blindly against the opposition whom we may dislike but being honest, being just needs high values and morals. The state action against the innocent, kidnappings, false cases, propaganda, video, threats is unacceptable.
 
Nawaz Sharif is also furious because he believes IK was used by establishment to remove him as PM.

How exactly? Nawaz Sharif was long gone before IK came into the picture.
 
I dislike afghans but I respect that man who have shown bajwa his true aukaat in a foreign land where he cannot act like a firoun.

We all had discussions on many topics but didn't really touch on the role of FIA and IB on targeting PTI, their role in the arrests, propaganda, false cases, blackmail, torture. How exactly powerful are these civilian intelligence agencies, all under the control of PM and interior ministry. One of their mission is to infiltrate political opposition and then destroy/harm them, excuses can be made up ofcourse. Are they powerful enough to act without the orders of the ISI, MI, can they be misused by Military agencies or misused by governments without the influence of ISI, MI.



@Meengla @_NOBODY_ @ghazi52 @VCheng @313ghazi @SaadH @Mirzali Khan @Drexluddin Khan Spiveyzai @Dreamer. @Maula Jatt @Ikbal @khansaheeb @FuturePAF @python-000 @El Sidd @PanzerKiel @truthseeker2010 @SQ8 @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Jango @PakFactor @Pak Nationalist @AsianLion @Path-Finder @The Eagle @The Accountant @LeGenD @RescueRanger @Goenitz @SecularNationalist
These agencies were created to protect and represent the common citizen of Pakistan. Since they have gone astray they need to replaced with something that represent the people of Pakistan. And of course that's not possible without the armed revolution.
 
We all had discussions on many topics but didn't really touch on the role of FIA and IB on targeting PTI, their role in the arrests, propaganda, false cases, blackmail, torture. How exactly powerful are these civilian intelligence agencies, all under the control of PM and interior ministry. One of their mission is to infiltrate political opposition and then destroy/harm them, excuses can be made up ofcourse. Are they powerful enough to act without the orders of the ISI, MI, can they be misused by Military agencies or misused by governments without the influence of ISI, MI.



@Meengla @_NOBODY_ @ghazi52 @VCheng @313ghazi @SaadH @Mirzali Khan @Drexluddin Khan Spiveyzai @Dreamer. @Maula Jatt @Ikbal @khansaheeb @FuturePAF @python-000 @El Sidd @PanzerKiel @truthseeker2010 @SQ8 @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Jango @PakFactor @Pak Nationalist @AsianLion @Path-Finder @The Eagle @The Accountant @LeGenD @RescueRanger @Goenitz @SecularNationalist
I swear ISI, GHQ etc got the idea of 9 May from CIA and FBI. The way they did that show of storming the capital building in yankee'ville. almost the same script has been played here in Pakistan.
 
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Although IB and FIA are powerful, but no one has enough balls within these organizations to stand up in front of a High Court judge and give him BS, unless they are given some assurances by those that actually run the country.

Actually, FIA does do some good work, barring their politically motivated actions.

Yes. But to @PakAlp 's take, it is primarily FIA personnel doing the dirty deeds at a local level with IB assisting them if needed.

ISI doesn't have enough manpower to do everything. They just need to call their counterpart in IB, who calls someone in FIA saying "go ahead".

Telecom companies can record any voice call. NADRA can provide the information.



Also, not everything has to be signed off by DG ISI, COAS or PM. It's like COAS okays napping of Imran. DG ISI adds a couple of other senior members, PM adds a few more to the list .... Rana Sana adds another couple... By the time the list comes down to the Inspector, he adds a few personal grudges of his own to the now 40 people list and you get what we are seeing ! Halwa!
 
Telecom companies can record any voice call. NADRA can provide the information.

Each telecom company has an ofice jdhr aik civil kapron main 'Government relations officer' ata hai subah tie suit pehn kar, and he is a serving Maj. Agay aap samajhdar ho.

Reminds me of the days that a Kaptaan sahab was deputed to the COVID ward of PIMS.
 
But PTI-led government was busy undermining judiciary as well. Remember the Faez Isa episode?

I usually do not reply to political debate but you might have missed the IK's side of story. According of IK's narrative, reference against Qazi Faiz Essa was advised by Farough Naseem who was law minister at that time. Now we now that even MQM has disowned Farough Nassem as one of their own as he was planted in government by GHQ (he was also lawyer Musharraf). GHQ was conducting their own Vendetta against Qazi Essa using Farough Naseem.

Just like GHQ used ANF's General to settle score with Rana Sana Ullah. Shehryar Afridi has stated that he did the press conference on the request of ANF's General. Many journalist were also briefed by ANF/ISPR to lobby against Sana Ullah at that time.

There is a reason why GHQ loves a hung parliament & weak coalition government, and that is why they introduced united MQM, IPP and Tareen now.
 
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