Is Pakistan Army the target?

[AlKardai]

I always held this position, in fact I would prefer a competent nationalist dictatorship similar to China's.

This love for dEmOcrAcY is entirely a product of the western environment, the love for democracy and free speech is to prep a society, essentially lotion it, to make it easy to push in your intelligence apparatus for destabilisation and anti-state elements, influence public opinion and sentiment.

It is easy for a country who sits at the top of the hierarchy to use such a system, but poor and unstable nations like Pakistan will struggle with combating the information warfare, it's not worth it.

Although this is directly against Jinnah's dream, I feel that it is the only possible way for Pakistan to stand.

Democratic ideals, whilst being good for the individual, aren't really the right way to be able to sustain a society for long-term gains, as seen with the fall of the Late Roman Republic and the formation of the Roman Empire.

It's very clear that non-democratic states and empires altogether last a lot longer than democratic states, because they are free from ideological ideas being placed into their society.

Always remember that as humans in society you are never free of influence, it's always present, I would rather that influence be from my own nationalist compatriots than foreigners who are covertly hostile.

Absolutely.

The Chinese don't realise how lucky they are.

I'm currently compiling some information but I'm going to be opening a thread on the NGOs, their connection with terror networks, operating in Pakistan with the singular goal of destabilising society and the economy.

I'll be waiting to see this, as well as the fact that I will be contributing to it once I have a list of names. (I am able to do slightly more research than your average joe)

 

[Olympus81]

Pakistan army is and should not be the target.

Anyone targeting the army has no idea what they’re talking about.

Its the upper echelon the establishment which needs to course correct. Only then a proper equilibrium can be found that would result in harmony and stability.

 

[TheSolution]

Although this is directly against Jinnah's dream, I feel that it is the only possible way for Pakistan to stand.

Democratic ideals, whilst being good for the individual, aren't really the right way to be able to sustain a society for long-term gains, as seen with the fall of the Late Roman Republic and the formation of the Roman Empire.

It's very clear that non-democratic states and empires altogether last a lot longer than democratic states, because they are free from ideological ideas being placed into their society.

As long as we keep Jinnah's core vision alive we are doing him justice, there is no other option as this is a matter of national security.

Regardless the best way to do this is through covert means, you can have a dictatorship that seems like a democracy, and you can have a 'free society' with your main ideology being propagated in 85% of the social space.

Best example is the west itself, they drown out non-liberal voices using suppression tactics, maligning their character, labelling them as bad people or "radicals", they indirectly shut them out of society unless they submit to their ideology. It leaves them with no choice. It reduces them to fringe elements.

Pakistan needs to intelligently leverage this for it's own context. And we have the most powerful tool to do so; Islam, religion, alongside with some well respected and loved national figures in certain departments pushing your narrative. All other ideologies will become fringe elements, lost in the wind.

Choose a political person, choose a molvi, choose a general. They peddle the state narrative with a large following. That's your societal influence and anyone who goes against it can be met with the same attitude as anti-liberals in the west.

Pakistan army is and should not be the target.

Anyone targeting the army has no idea what they’re talking about.

Its the upper echelon the establishment which needs to course correct. Only then a proper equilibrium can be found that would result in harmony and stability.

Everyone must remember, our critique of our army does not imply hate and neither is our critique greater than our reverence for it.

Quite literally at this point in time it's only the army which is the last line of defence against anti-state plans currently.

By turning our army into an enemy we are simply hurting ourselves. We must convey our criticism in a proper manner, and the army must have an appropriate channel to address it.

There must never be allowed a gap to be built between the people and our army.

 

[AlKardai]

As long as we keep Jinnah's core vision alive we are doing him justice, there is no other option as this is a matter of national security.

Regardless the best way to do this is through covert means, you can have a dictatorship that seems like a democracy, and you can have a 'free society' with your main ideology being propagated in 85% of the social space.

Well, that's what we actually had until Imran Khan brought people out of it

Best example is the west itself, they drown out non-liberal voices using suppression tactics, maligning their character, labelling them as bad people or "radicals", they indirectly shut them out of society unless they submit to their ideology. It leaves them with no choice. It reduces them to fringe elements.

Pakistan needs to intelligently leverage this for it's own context. And we have the most powerful tool to do so; Islam, religion, alongside with some well respected and loved national figures in certain departments pushing your narrative. All other ideologies will become fringe elements, lost in the wind.

Choose a political person, choose a molvi, choose a general. They peddle the state narrative with a large following. That's your societal influence and anyone who goes against it can be met with the same attitude as anti-liberals in the west.

This is why I don't understand why the estab is so dead against Imran Khan.

They had the perfect game going with Imran Khan as the posterboy and the army pulling the strings, but I'm guessing Bajwa's decision to boot out IK was the mistake that they're trying their best not to acceopt

Everyone must remember, our critique of our army does not imply hate and neither is our critique greater than our reverence for it.

Quite literally at this point in time it's only the army which is the last line of defence against anti-state plans currently.

By turning our army into an enemy we are simply hurting ourselves. We must convey our criticism in a proper manner, and the army must have an appropriate channel to address it.

I am very sure that the Pak army does a lot more than meets the eye in terms of defending Pakistan. I believe that they are practically the only reason that Pakistan hasn't dissolved due to Indian or Afghan Influence, by hemming in all of Pakistan and refusing the entire country and room to move, which may damage it.

In the short term, it's a necessary evil.

In the long-term, it's a greater good.

There must never be allowed a gap to be built between the people and our army.

And what do we have at the moment? A large gap between the establishment and the people, most likely peddled by anti-state elements unbeknownst to us

 

[Sinnerman108]

I always held this position, in fact I would prefer a competent nationalist dictatorship similar to China's.

This love for dEmOcrAcY is entirely a product of the western environment, the love for democracy and free speech is to prep a society, essentially lotion it, to make it easy to push in your intelligence apparatus for destabilisation and anti-state elements, influence public opinion and sentiment.

It is easy for a country who sits at the top of the hierarchy to use such a system, but poor and unstable nations like Pakistan will struggle with combating the information warfare, it's not worth it.

Always remember that as humans in society you are never free of influence, it's always present, I would rather that influence be from my own nationalist compatriots than foreigners who are covertly hostile.

The Chinese don't realise how lucky they are.

I'm currently compiling some information but I'm going to be opening a thread on the NGOs, their connection with terror networks, operating in Pakistan with the singular goal of destabilising society and the economy.

Nopes,
China doesn't have a nationalist dictatorship. Not at all.
what they have a single party system, which is portrayed as a dictatorship.
and the reason it is demonized is because the west can't manipulate that system.


China has the best and most efficient system of governance on the planet if you look at it
from a neutral non western capitalist lens.

The Chinese invented the modern form of governance. Here spend some time reading about this fellow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius


Pakistan needs the same.
Single vision,
single philosophy
single approach.
only for Pakistan and nothing else.

 

[SD 10]

Still playing the "target" card?

 

[TheSolution]

Nopes,
China doesn't have a nationalist dictatorship. Not at all.
what they have a single party system, which is portrayed as a dictatorship.
and the reason it is demonized is because the west can't manipulate that system.


China has the best and most efficient system of governance on the planet if you look at it
from a neutral non western capitalist lens.

The Chinese invented the modern form of governance. Here spend some time reading about this fellow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius


Pakistan needs the same.
Single vision,
single philosophy
single approach.
only for Pakistan and nothing else.

I'm in agreement with you bro, and yes I want that too.

I see China as being a state run by nationalists who put national interests first and have a system based on pure meritocracy in place. It is seen as a "dictatorship" due to the CCP having ultimate control.

I want a similar thing too

 

[Riz]

Still playing the "target" card?