Is Mob Justice a New Law of the Land?

[El Sidd]

A) my point was not about statistics per se. It was to show the selective outrage of Secular India.

B) I agree with you to some extent. FYI, do you know how many convictions happened in 2002 riots? Do you know how many convictions happened in 1984 Sikh genocide? Or Genocide of Kashmiri Pandits?

Point is, we have always been violent towards each other. The last 3 years statistically have been less violent than ever before.
Again, this is not my main point. I am only pointing at the obvious elephant in the room, in how Violence by muslims never get's the same attention when compared to violence done on them.



Hindus are constitutionally oppressed.

1. Temples are under govt control. Temple all over India have loads of Muslim & Christian as their head. Mosques & Churches are outside govt control and never had a single Hindu as their head.
2. Right to Education is only applicable to Hindu owned schools. Muslim & Christian owned schools are exempt.

I can go on but you are starting to get the gist I suppose.



What do you mean real?
There is a video of 15 muslim guys brutally molesting 2 dalit girls. All of them have been booked under SC/ST acts as well.

That you make these brutal acts of Muslims as anecdotal references, makes it easy for Hindus to justify their own violence by saying "touché".

Only solution:
Stomp on all acts of violence in the same way. Don't patronize Muslims or Hindus. treat them as equal before the law. Show any act of violence by either side in the same vein in the media.
Start laying down the law and stop pussyfooting and all this nonsense will stop.

@Jacob Martin Please search the name Girija Tickoo. Read what happened to her. I don't want you to discuss what you have read with me. I just want you to ponder the fact that the whole world knows who her killers are & no one is doing anything about it.

Yes I know.
They seem to feel even entitled to special attention.

What is your solution if even the Constitution oppresses you?

 

[salimpheku]

http://www.firstpost.com/india/nare...n-not-confined-to-caste-religion-3762521.html

Just hours before Prime Minister Narendra Modi asked cow vigilantes not to kill people, 1,600 kilometres away, Asgar Ali was lynched in Ramgarh, 60 kilometres from Ranchi in Jharkhand, by a mob of 30 men. His Maruti van, carrying raw meat which was suspected to be beef, was waylaid at a crowded marketplace.

The Telegraph reports that the police had reason to believe they had prior information and that the murder has the hallmarks of premeditation.

HMV television channels celebrated Modi's warning as an indication that the whip had been cracked. They forgot Modi had said the same and in fact, in a more strong language in Delhi and Hyderabad in August 2016, after the flogging of Dalits for skinning dead cattle in Una, Gujarat. Nothing has changed. No state government has prepared a dossier on the cow vigilante groups, hardly any police force cracked the whip which is why in broad daylight, a group could dare to kill Ali and burnt his van.

Representational image. Reuters.

If anyone is a holy cow in India today, it is the gau rakshak.

The law indeed bans cow slaughter in most states in India but the militant version of the cattle class has taken it upon itself to dispense instant justice in its kangaroo courts. With branches of support available in good measure online, Indians have begun to wear their 'Hinduism' on their sleeve resorting to "whataboutery" to defend the bloody acts. It is as if India at 70 has opted to run with the cows and hunt with the gau rakshaks.

In what is the gaumata of all ironies, Modi came under attack for taking on criminals masquerading as cow vigilantes. A twitter handle @Shankhnaad put out a table of events on which Modi was silent and questioned his outburst only on "violence labelled as cow vigilantism''. He tweeted: "Our Secular PM @Narendramodi ji has never spoken on real issues we are facing. But he is quick to please the leftist gang. Has he surrendered?''



Surrender or a political masterstroke? The way I see it, Modi clearly wants to be seen doing his 'rajdharma'. To him, the 'Not In My Name' protests in cities across India — that some lampooned as a lesser crowd than outside a public toilet — is like Atal Bihari Vajpayee in 2002 all over again. Publicly, at no less a sacred platform than Sabarmati Ashram, Modi has conveyed to India that he is on her side.

But is it too little, too late? Reports now suggest that the initial argument that broke out on a Mathura-bound train with 15-year-old Hafiz Junaid and his brothers involved a Delhi Jal board staffer, someone you would not think is a typical gau rakshak. The verbal clash over a seat or perhaps the fact that a game of Ludo was occupying more space on the seat than necessary, swiftly moved into the realm of religion, attire and food habits. The air became thick with hatred, vitriol and rancour. A knife, it would seem, was the only way to slice through it and find closure.

Ab Tak Athaees (28 so far). Junaid.

If this is what Pakistan meant by its policy of inflicting a thousand cuts on India, it is succeeding. Over a period of time, the ability of Pakistan-backed terror groups to use misguided Indian Muslim youth to plant bombs and kill innocent Indians, has succeeded in creating a Hindu-Muslim divide. The notion that while all Muslims are not terrorists, all terrorists are Muslims. Therefore, their patriotism is suspect. So if a Muslim is killed, even if it is a teenager like Junaid or a 42-year-old like Asgar, it deserves no apology or mourning. This is the claustrophobic and depraved India we have become now, no longer the land of Ganga-Jamuna culture.

It does not mean all Hindus have succumbed to the bloodlust. But what should worry is that a significant number does not feel the burden on his conscience if a non-Hindu is killed. It is almost as if "he deserved it''. The Hindustani has a "so what?'' reaction when the blood of a Muslim or a Dalit is spilled. "Where were you in 1984?'' "Where were you when Muzaffarnagar happened?'' "Where were you when Kashmiri Pundits were thrown out?'' are by now, familiar tactics to shift the focus from the lynchings of today. It is as if 1984 is used to justify 2017. Failure to make enough noise in 2013 is used to put the label of an anti-BJP activist on you. It is not Asgar alone who was lynched, anyone who makes a point that suggests harmony, is lynched online. A bit like "tumhare smartphone me ghus kar marenge''. (We will smash you inside your smartphone).

The counter to such a narrative is necessary but it cannot be a 'Not in My Name' that talks only about the Muslims because that is being narrow in its outlook. Already there is criticism that most of those who assembled were the elite intelligentsia, in whose presence a journalist wrote "you could smell hand sanitiser in the air". That they did not come out when Una happened because that concerned Dalits but are in protest mode now, because Muslim is a better stick to indulge in BJP-bashing.

What the Left liberals do not realise is every time they use the Muslim card to beat the BJP with, it only helps the ruling party because Muslims aren't its constituency in any case. In today's India, it only leads to reverse consolidation of Hindus, cutting across caste lines, in the BJP's favour.

Does it mean there should be no protests? No. But for any protest to be successful, it needs to ensure it does not bind itself in boundaries of caste and religion. 'Not in My Name' erred by talking only of lynch mobs targeting Muslims. The moment it did so, it provoked a "who cares'' reaction. The protest should have ideally spoken about Indians without getting caught in the labels of Muslim, Christian, Dalit or Hindu. Any attempt to make India a more sane and less violent nation can only happen if those who raise a banner of protest carry a large umbrella. In a divided nation, unity of purpose is the only insurance.

***

Points to the crux of the issue. Protest all lynching's and I will join in and we will fight the evil side by side.

 

[Jacob Martin]

Yes I know.
They seem to feel even entitled to special attention.

What is your solution if even the Constitution oppresses you?

I have ignored that tool so cannot see his post but I can easily guess what he has to say.

What you mentioned about a list of economic grievances is actually correct to a large extent. Because the state has not been able to provide education and economic opportunities for everyone, the process of social justice has bred massive resentment among the traditional elite as well as the aspirational classes.

The lack of sufficient opportunities to better one's life has led to a zero-sum approach towards affirmative action of any sort, reflected in the reaction to the caste politics and reservation policy for less advantaged castes. It is invariably looked as something that deprives the deserving, and not the actual issue of state failure that has lead to the current situation where opportunities for one means that another will be left out.

There has been very little challenge to this narrative, and the more relevant questions, such as why the state, after 70 years of independence, has still not been able to secure free, quality universal education for all, are hardly discussed.

Indian Muslims are also part of this churn. Organized studies do show that Muslims in India suffer from educational and economic deprivation and its attendant problems. However, in the current scenario where there is in any case such a clamour for scarce resources, that issue has little hope of redressal.

There is a great dissonance in understanding where the pernicious effects of such chronic deprivation suffered by vast sections of society are not recognized as the primary reason why the nation as a whole has been held back.

And for that failure, I cannot blame the people with their set of grievances. They are reacting to the reality of their lives, not aware that there is a class that is even more deprived and unfairly treated than they are. To each of them personally, the effects of this situation does not matter in their own daily lives. What they understand is that they did not individually create the circumstances that have resulted in this situation, for which they are being forced to pay a price as well. This has manifested itself in an intransigent denial that these circumstances even exist.

 

[salimpheku]

The lack of sufficient opportunities to better one's life has led to a zero-sum approach towards affirmative action of any sort, reflected in the reaction to the caste politics and reservation policy for less advantaged castes.

Do you even understand what affirmative action is and when it is given to sections of society?

Organized studies do show that Muslims in India suffer from educational and economic deprivation and its attendant problems. However, in the current scenario where there is in any case such a clamour for scarce resources, that issue has little hope of redressal.

Whose fault is that? Who forced them to go to Madrassas to study? Why do Muslims insist on putting their kinds in Madrassas?
What redressal? I am all for it if you can explain on what basis a poor/marginalized Muslim should be under affirmative action over a poor/marginalized Bramhin?

 

[VCheng]

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Have never heard your views on what is happening in India. Your terse one-liners are very much required in this context as well.

India is not my primary interest, that is why, although suffice to say here that what is happening in India has more to do with pandering to the rabid right to make up for the failure to achieve economic lift-off that was promised.

 

[Jacob Martin]

India is not my primary interest, that is why, although suffice to say here that what is happening in India has more to do with pandering to the rabid right to make up for the failure to achieve economic lift-off that was promised.

I absolutely agree on the point you make about economic lift-off. I wanted to ask you a question in a more general context. Do you see an increasing trend in many countries where the government has co-opted the aspirational classes into the business of conjuring optics of economic well-being? It seems to me that in way too many countries with popular strongmen at the helm, there are legions of keyboard warriors who are willing to free-lance as propagandists on behalf of the government.

 

[hassamun]

Unfortunately lynching and Mob Justice incidents shall rise due to a lack of accountability...
Perhaps India should really become Republic of India instead of United Provinces of India...Maybe more Centralized Laws can further Unite India instead of every state having different (special) laws...

 

[VCheng]

I absolutely agree on the point you make about economic lift-off. I wanted to ask you a question in a more general context. Do you see an increasing trend in many countries where the government has co-opted the aspirational classes into the business of conjuring optics of economic well-being? It seems to me that in way too many countries with popular strongmen at the helm, there are legions of keyboard warriors who are willing to free-lance as propagandists on behalf of the government.

That tradition of spinning facts to make them palatable and rosier to sell to the gullible public goes back a long way in history, Sir, nothing new, except for the online aspects of it, obviously.

 

[ashok321]

ICSE board caught 'promoting' Islamophobia, Class VI book blames Azaan and mosque for noise pollution jantakareporter.com/india/icse-boa…

 

[Jacob Martin]

That tradition of spinning facts to make them palatable and rosier to sell to the gullible public goes back a long way in history, Sir, nothing new, except for the online aspects of it, obviously.

Aah...like I often say, there is nothing about propaganda that Joseph Goebbels did not know. Social media has made it a collaborative process. Suddenly, the world is full of nations whose vocal online communities seem to have no complains with the state. Russia, Turkey, India, and now even the US; and this cannot be paid for simply because there are too many of them. I think it results from a conclusion that image is everything - if the world can be convinced you are doing well, that is the same as actually doing so.

 

[VCheng]

Aah...like I often say, there is nothing about propaganda that Joseph Goebbels did not know. Social media has made it a collaborative process. Suddenly, the world is full of nations whose vocal online communities seem to have no complains with the state. Russia, Turkey, India, and now even the US; and this cannot be paid for simply because there are too many of them. I think it results from a conclusion that image is everything - if the world can be convinced you are doing well, that is the same as actually doing so.

Image matters, but reality wins. Always.

 

[halupridol]

Mob justice has always been the law of the land. It's nothing new now, just the ability of more coverage due to social media and raw footage.

Mob justice is very much prevalent in northeast india where institutions have failed to establish law n order.
Its just that beef killings gets more trp for news channels.
Just a couple of months ago 2 persons were beaten to death by villagers here,,,coz they practiced "black magic",,,i bet nobody heard abt it

 

[hassamun]

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[Jacob Martin]

Unfortunately lynching and Mob Justice incidents shall rise due to a lack of accountability...
Perhaps India should really become Republic of India instead of United Provinces of India...Maybe more Centralized Laws can further Unite India instead of every state having different (special) laws...

The Federal nature of our republic is part of the basic structure of the Constitution and cannot be changed. Federalism was the negotiation chip at the time of India's formation - it convinced disparate states to agree to the Union in the first place.

Having said that, the idea of unified laws is not repugnant in itself. It is just a matter of who makes these laws. Is all of India willing to be subject to every law being legislated by the government in power?

ICSE board caught 'promoting' Islamophobia, Class VI book blames Azaan and mosque for noise pollution jantakareporter.com/india/icse-boa…

Yeah this is how it starts. Catch them young and watch them grow. Pretty soon the project will bear fruit. We already have a plethora of Hindutva-backed, so-called Vedic schools. I wonder what they teach in these schools?

Mob justice is very much prevalent in northeast india where institutions have failed to establish law n order.
Its just that beef killings gets more trp for news channels.
Just a couple of months ago 2 persons were beaten to death by villagers here,,,coz they practiced "black magic",,,i bet nobody heard abt it

I am all for any discussion. If a person feels uncomfortable discussing beef politics that is fine by me. We are all free to choose our priorities. So long as we acknowledge and debate issues, like institutional failure, breakdown of rule of law.

What I am sick of is this unceasing, partisan pretence that in 2014 everything suddenly became fine. I can understand a view that things remain as before, that they were always this bad.

 

[salarsikander]

Hi,

Thanks for tagging and considering me worthy enough. I usually avoid making any statement in regards to such mob violence. The whole wretched region gripped is gripped in terror. All it takes is little spark and watch it how it lits the fire in the name of religion, nationalism and what not.

Just recently the death of a student in uni sparked quite a controversy, only upon investigating the matter it came to light, that poor child was victimized in the name of blasphemy.

But what frightened me is the fact that so-called educated people advocating such MOB-justice. Let the Due of course of law handle it. We are not living in a society where we have yet to establish the justice system or are unaware of justice system