Is Mob Justice a New Law of the Land?

[Jacob Martin]

Is Mob Justice a New Law of Land? Angry Crowd Takes Another Life in Jharkhand
By Surabhi Shaurya | Updated:Fri, June 30, 2017 11:35am

No society allow mob to rule over law and order in state.

New Delhi: Putting a nation of over a billion people to shame, yet another case of mob justice hit the headlines on Friday. In a second such instance in less than 48 hours, another man was beaten to death in the Ramgarh thana of Dumka district, Jharkhand by angry mob. According to the reports, the man identified as Mithun Hansda was accused of raping and killing an eight-year-old.


According to the reports of regional daily, Prabhat Khabar, the minor girl had come to a village in Dumka district to attend a wedding. Later from the wedding party, she along with her few friends went to a nearby lake to take shower where Hansda, in an inebriated state, misbehaved with them.

The girls managed to escape however, Hansda abducted the eight-year-old and allegedly raped her. Reports in the daily also claimed that the accused killed the minor and dumped her body among the trees. Reportedly, 30-year-old Mithun Hansda was tied to a tree with ropes and thrashed mercilessly by an angry mob. As per the reports of news agency ANI, bodies of both victim and accused sent have been sent for postmortem.


The incident took place just a day after man was lynched in Ramgarh district of Jharkhand on allegation of transporting beef. The victim, identified as Alimuddin Asghar, was intercepted by 100 strong mob in Bazartund locality on suspicion of travelling with beef in his van. Asghar was rescued by police officials amid the crowd beatdown. However, the 45-year-old succumbed to injuries during the treatment. The lynching of Asghar came on a day when Prime Minister Narendra Modi condemned the acts of violence in name of cow vigilantism.

Dumka and Ramgarh districts are located around 300 kilometers apart. Earlier on Wednesday, two Dalit youth identified as Baban Musahar and Murahu Musahar were lynched in Bihar's Parsian village on suspicion of theft.


If reports of Times of India are to be believed, in the last six months, nearly a dozen cases of lynching have been reported across Bihar, Jharkhand. Yesterday, While addressing a gathering at Sabarmati Ashram, Prime Minister Narendra Modi broke his silence over lynching and had said, Killing people in the name of gau bhakti (cow worship) is not acceptable. This is not something Mahatma Gandhi would approve. As a society, there is no place for violence."

One must understand that violence never has and never will solve any problem and no person has the right to take law in his or her own hands. No society allow mob to rule over law and order in state.

 

[Jacob Martin]

This is not about beef lynching and politicizing the issue. I think this growing trend reflects a broader breakdown of institutions and rule of law. Time to be worried.

 

[Mufflerman]

If the government does nothing to uphold the law - which bans cow slaughter, then people have to deliver mob justice.
Modi can scream all he like but he has done squat for Gauraksha since taking office. His biggest failure so far.

This is not about beef lynching and politicizing the issue. I think this growing trend reflects a broader breakdown of institutions and rule of law. Time to be worried.

Check crime stats in India before and after 2014 before mouthing off non sense. Go one step further and look at BJP ruled states.

 

[Jacob Martin]

If the government does nothing to uphold the law - which bans cow slaughter, then people have to deliver mob justice.
Modi can scream all he like but he has done squat for Gauraksha since taking office. His biggest failure so far.


Check crime stats in India before and after 2014 before mouthing off non sense. Go one step further and look at BJP ruled states.

Hmm...it didn't take you a moment to politicize the issue.

So your points are - lynching people is justified because of any allegation of cow slaughter. Without going into the details of how hideous that makes you as a human being, where have you addressed the fact that many of these lynchings are in response to allegations of rape and other issues? Are those also equally justified in your savage worldview?

As for the second point, about crime rate, it is a well known fact that countries with better law and order have higher crime rates than those with dysfunctional systems.

Let me quote from the relevant article :

"These proclamations beg the obvious question: Does rising crime graph as visible in data mean deteriorating law and order and vice versa? If international data on crime is analysed, it shows that countries perceived to have better systems of law and order also have high rates of crimes (number of crimes per 1 lakh population), while countries with dysfunctional governance, most of the times, display low rates of crimes.

According to United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) data, on seven counts of serious crimes — which include murder, rape, sexual violence, assault, kidnapping, burglary and theft — Sweden (with 6,456 crimes per 1 lakh population), Denmark (6,041) and the Netherlands (5,523) have high rates of crimes.

The countries with low rates of crimes are Somalia (1.5), Iraq (2), Libya (2.9) and Haiti (5). It would be naive to argue that Somalia is safer than Sweden. India’s crime rate (87) itself compares with that of Lebanon (59), Yemen (67) and Kazakhstan (96). Within India, Kerala, considered to be a better policed state has one of the highest crime rates, while UP, whose poor law and order issues often hit headlines, has one of the lowest.

Why is it so? The answer lies in the response of government and civil society to crime data and how sense of law and order in India is measured solely through registered crimes.

As soon as crime graph of a particular region, as reflected in data, rises, the minister responsible reprimands the concerned officer. The officer, in turn, tries his best to keep the numbers to the lowest. One of the ways this is allegedly done is by refusing FIRs."

https://www.google.co.in/amp/indian...ws-india/why-india-has-a-low-crime-rate/lite/

We live in a country where the police will not register an FIR unless they feel like doing so. This could depend on their mood, political pressure, meeting targets, bribery, etc. You think our crime statistics have any value? They are a joke.

I am not here to convince you. You are beyond salvage. A person who thinks lynching is fine is so far down on the evolutionary ladder that maybe your descendants will resemble humans after a few generations, if things go fine. The purpose of this thread and my response is to ensure that people like you do not have a license to mislead others.

@baajey @The_Showstopper @ashok321 @StraightShooter

Things are not looking good my friends.

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Have never heard your views on what is happening in India. Your terse one-liners are very much required in this context as well.

@Sinopakfriend @salarsikander

 

[baajey]

Hmm...it didn't take you a moment to politicize the issue.

So your points are - lynching people is justified because of any allegation of cow slaughter. Without going into the details of how hideous that makes you as a human being, where have you addressed the fact that many of these lynchings are in response to allegations of rape and other issues? Are those also equally justified in your savage worldview?

As for the second point, about crime rate, it is a well known fact that countries with better law and order have higher crime rates than those with dysfunctional systems.

Let me quote from the relevant article :

"These proclamations beg the obvious question: Does rising crime graph as visible in data mean deteriorating law and order and vice versa? If international data on crime is analysed, it shows that countries perceived to have better systems of law and order also have high rates of crimes (number of crimes per 1 lakh population), while countries with dysfunctional governance, most of the times, display low rates of crimes.

According to United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) data, on seven counts of serious crimes — which include murder, rape, sexual violence, assault, kidnapping, burglary and theft — Sweden (with 6,456 crimes per 1 lakh population), Denmark (6,041) and the Netherlands (5,523) have high rates of crimes.

The countries with low rates of crimes are Somalia (1.5), Iraq (2), Libya (2.9) and Haiti (5). It would be naive to argue that Somalia is safer than Sweden. India’s crime rate (87) itself compares with that of Lebanon (59), Yemen (67) and Kazakhstan (96). Within India, Kerala, considered to be a better policed state has one of the highest crime rates, while UP, whose poor law and order issues often hit headlines, has one of the lowest.

Why is it so? The answer lies in the response of government and civil society to crime data and how sense of law and order in India is measured solely through registered crimes.

As soon as crime graph of a particular region, as reflected in data, rises, the minister responsible reprimands the concerned officer. The officer, in turn, tries his best to keep the numbers to the lowest. One of the ways this is allegedly done is by refusing FIRs."

https://www.google.co.in/amp/indian...ws-india/why-india-has-a-low-crime-rate/lite/

We live in a country where the police will not register an FIR unless they feel like doing so. This could depend on their mood, political pressure, meeting targets, bribery, etc. You think our crime statistics have any value? They are a joke.

I am not here to convince you. You are beyond salvage. A person who thinks lynching is fine is so far down on the evolutionary ladder that maybe your descendants will resemble humans after a few generations, if things go fine. The purpose of this thread and my response is to ensure that people like you do not have a license to mislead others.

@baajey @The_Showstopper @ashok321 @StraightShooter

Things are not looking good my friends.

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Have never heard your views on what is happening in India. Your terse one-liners are very much required in this context as well.

@Sinopakfriend @salarsikander

such a pity. now cow>man bcoz of a culture of a bygone era.
yes, we respect cows but how can a cow be a reason for some persons death is beyond me, like that junaid fellow.
however, cow thieves are a concern.
i have hopes that the extremists will be outdone in elections 30/40 years later.
for eg. cpim in wb.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Mob justice has always been the law of the land. It's nothing new now, just the ability of more coverage due to social media and raw footage.

 

[El Sidd]

Maybe the Constitution of India is biased towards Hindu sentiments

 

[takeiteasy]

You sell more Muslim/Christian hatred, the more the commoners likes it. This is in India now.

 

[Jacob Martin]

such a pity. now cow>man bcoz of a culture of a bygone era.
yes, we respect cows but how can a cow be a reason for some persons death is beyond me, like that junaid fellow.
however, cow thieves are a concern.
i have hopes that the extremists will be outdone in elections 30/40 years later.
for eg. cpim in wb.

What worries me more is the social outcome of this entire process. For whatever little it is worth, an entire generation of educated Indians did grow up knowing that we are a secular democracy. I hope the next generation does not treat both those terms as irrelevant.

Mob justice has always been the law of the land. It's nothing new now, just the ability of more coverage due to social media and raw footage.

I think you are partly right. Social media and the fact that things get caught on video has made it a different ballgame. But the fact remains that riots and lynchings are done by mobs who are full aware that the establishment is not going to act. They have no fear of imprisonment or penal consequences.

On the surface, it seems that all these are spontaneous displays of violent anger. However, barring a few exceptions, most of these are organized events with full knowledge that the police and state machinery will not interfere. That is what gives these people the license to get "angry".

Maybe the Constitution of India is biased towards Hindu sentiments

I have had to study the Constitution as a student of law. There is no religious bias whatsoever. However, I think what is happening is the inevitable process of social entropy is accelerating. In both India and Pakistan, majority of the public has always treated modern secular institutions as superfluous Western impositions. That is why these institutions do not work. What the Constitution says is irrelevant to most people and their views.

Suppose Pakistan were to amend its Constitution tomorrow and declare itself a de jure secular country. Do you think the opinion of most people in Pakistan of Islam as a founding principle of the nation is going to change? That same thing is applicable to India. What they keep waiting for is that the ruling party endorses their views either silently or publicly. Then they have nothing to fear.

You sell more Muslim/Christian hatred, the more the commoners likes it. This is in India now.

Yes. Pretty much all of these tweets are pretty accurate. Merely by declaring that the nation is secular in the Constitution does not make it so. What is taught in homes is equally important. What we are seeing today is a hardening of public opinion, but it is based in prejudices that were learnt during childhood.

 

[El Sidd]

What worries me more is the social outcome of this entire process. For whatever little it is worth, an entire generation of educated Indians did grow up knowing that we are a secular democracy. I hope the next generation does not treat both those terms as irrelevant.



I think you are partly right. Social media and the fact that things get caught on video has made it a different ballgame. But the fact remains that riots and lynchings are done by mobs who are full aware that the establishment is not going to act. They have no fear of imprisonment or penal consequences.

On the surface, it seems that all these are spontaneous displays of violent anger. However, barring a few exceptions, most of these are organized events with full knowledge that the police and state machinery will not interfere. That is what gives these people the license to get "angry".



I have had to study the Constitution as a student of law. There is no religious bias whatsoever. However, I think what is happening is the inevitable process of social entropy is accelerating. In both India and Pakistan, majority of the public has always treated modern secular institutions as superfluous Western impositions. That is why these institutions do not work. What the Constitution says is irrelevant to most people and their views.

Suppose Pakistan were to amend its Constitution tomorrow and declare itself a de jure secular country. Do you think the opinion of most people in Pakistan of Islam as a founding principle of the nation is going to change? That same thing is applicable to India. What they keep waiting for is that the ruling party endorses their views either silently or publicly. Then they have nothing to fear.

The only problem is any form of government can be Islamic in nature. So that saves Pakistan from that.

India needs to tailor its Constitution on ground realities to avoid this feeling of oppression for the Hindu masses.

Why is this mob justice only a North Indian monopoly?

 

[Spring Onion]

killing Muslims over excuse of beef in india is the new norm in india. calling it mob justice is wrong because mob justice us linked to proof of the crine or crimes while here in india al-cowda is killing Muslims over mere speculation viz a viz beef

 

[Levina]

Mob justice has always been the law of the land. It's nothing new now, just the ability of more coverage due to social media and raw footage.

Bang on!

Things are not looking good my friends.

Just so you know

 

[Jacob Martin]

The only problem is any form of government can be Islamic in nature. So that saves Pakistan from that.

India needs to tailor its Constitution on ground realities to avoid this feeling of oppression for the Hindu masses.

Why is this mob justice only a North Indian monopoly?

Tailoring our Constitution is not an option. It would be the death of the idea of India for which the freedom movement was fought. There is a very good reason as to why most of the advanced societies that are doing well are secular societies.

As for Hindu feeling of oppression, that is partly based in faulty politics by the Congress government of the past. There were instances such as the Shah Bano case and subsequent legal enactment to favour repressive elements among the Muslims, on the assumption that they are against the welfare of their own women.

The fact is, the political parties have viewed religion as nothing but a matter of vote-bank politics. So as a result of these actions, many Hindus started believing that Muslims in India are an "appeased" community. Whereas fact is that far from being appeased, Muslims are even more in need of socio-economic and educational upliftment than the rest of the country. This illusion of "minority appeasement" was created by selective policies of the central and state governments which were just for optics - they didn't do anything to improve the lives of Muslims in reality.

However, at least for the most part, Muslims did at least feel safe. Wearing a skull cap or having a Muslim name would not mark you out for discrimination and intimidation. That has somewhat changed now and it worries me.

 

[El Sidd]

killing Muslims over excuse of beef in india is the new norm in india. calling it mob justice is wrong because mob justice us linked to proof of the crine or crimes while here in india al-cowda is killing Muslims over mere speculation viz a viz beef

The Constitution of Dominion of India is biased towards Hindu sentiments.

But as it may be. There are slaughter laws which are not being respected by the state of India and its citizens.

Legislative measures should be introduced to stop people from consuming beef and not hypocrisy of exporting them either.

 

[Jacob Martin]

Bang on!



Just so you know

https://twitter.com/x/status/880040381710127106

https://twitter.com/x/status/880028957705359361

https://twitter.com/x/status/880030001839484928

https://twitter.com/x/status/880031795541975040

Whoever this person who has "independently" collected data for the whole nation, I am not going to engage his findings simply because that is not the way to collate data. I think you are a smart person and you should know better.

As for official statistics in India, there are structural flaws to which I have already referred to in a post on this thread. It is impossible to rely on official data.