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Is Lockheed dumping F-16s on India?

Windjammer

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Is Lockheed dumping F-16s on India?
By Vineet KhareBBC Hindi
  • 20 June 2017
  • From the sectionIndia


Lockheed Martin and India's Tata Group have formalised an agreement to relocate the manufacturing of the most advanced F-16 fighter jets to India.

The effort is aimed at securing a multi-billion dollar deal from Delhi.

The announcement comes days ahead of Indian PM Narendra Modi's visit to Washington for a meeting with President Trump.

But some defence experts are accusing Lockheed of offloading obsolete aircraft on India.

What's in the deal?
India will be able to "produce, operate and export the multi fighter F-16 Block 70 aircraft", a joint release said.

"Contingent upon (the) US and Indian government agreement and approval, F-16 Block 70 aircraft would be produced exclusively in India," said a Lockheed Martin statement to the BBC.

"The F-16 Block 70, the next production version of the aircraft, would be the only F-16 version in production. As such, India would become the future home of F-16 production worldwide."

Many see the arrangement as a boost to Mr Modi's "Make in India" push, although it may take years to bear fruit.

Lockheed and Tata would have to win a formal bidding process to begin co-manufacturing.


Why does India need it?
India needs to replace over 200 aged MiGs that are already pushing the expiry date, experts say.

The Russian-supplied MIGs have faced criticism over the years for alleged malfunctioning and frequent crashes that have killed scores of Indian pilots.

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Image copyrightLOCKHEED WEBSITE
Russians blame the crashes on poor Indian maintenance.

India has been trying to ease its traditional reliance on Russia by diversifying its buying options.
It bought French Rafales off the shelf in 2016 after lengthy and arduous negotiations.

Steeply escalating costs, poor after-sales service and a lack of sophisticated military equipment are the reasons cited by some analysts for the shift away from Russia.

The F-16s are said to be up against competition from Sweden's Saab group and its Gripen jets.

How cutting-edge are F-16s?

F-16s have dominated the global market for years. More than 3,000 of the multi-role aircraft are currently in use by 26 countries.

F-16 production in India will support thousands of jobs in the US, said a joint statement issued from Paris, apparently to counter expected criticism that the deal would fall foul of Mr Trump's "America First" policy.

They were originally conceived in the early 1970s as a "lightweight air-to-air day fighter".

_96565703_brahma.jpg
Image copyrightTWITTER
But some commentators in India are asking if the agreement with the Tatas is an effort by Lockheed to offload old technology in India.

"India a dumping ground for obsolete weapons system?" asked defence expert Brahma Chellaney on Twitter.

"Lockheed Martin signs F-16 deal with Tata. Why Tata? Because they make the noisiest car?"


Defence writer Rahul Bedi agrees with Mr Chellaney.

"F-16s developed in the '70s have already reached the optimum level of modernisation. The US Air Force has phased them out in favour of the much more advanced F-35s," he told the BBC.

_96560116_mig21crashafp.gif
Image copyrightAFP
Image captionRussian-supplied MiGs have faced criticism over the years
In an email reply, Lockheed countered: "The F-16 remains the backbone of the US Air Force's frontline air fleet and the US Air Force plans to operate F-16s, alongside F-35s and other aircraft, for decades into the future.

"The US Air Force recently announced plans to extend the structural service life of up to 841 of its F-16s."

Could there be a roll-out delay?

Another worry is that it could take years for any F-16 to get off the assembly lines in India, assuming Lockheed-Tata win the tender and get on with the job of setting up manufacturing units.

The glacial pace of India's bureaucracy is a major cause for concern, with tenders, trials and manufacturer shortlists before anything can move on the ground.

"I fear it will take nearly a decade before we see the first aircraft. Who will then buy the technically obsolete F-16s?" asked Rahul Bedi.


Are there other risks for India?

Russia has long been considered a close Indian ally. For decades India bought Russian armaments to fulfil its defence needs.

But India's suggested pivot towards the US has come in for sharp criticism by some.

The Lockheed-Tata announcement could be seen through the same prism.

The feeling among the sceptics is that such closeness could cost precious Russian goodwill and Russia could get close to India's arch rival Pakistan, which India blames for fomenting "terror".

"The Russians are not in contention in the single engine aircraft race because they have nothing to offer," says Rahul Bedi.

"India's experience with Russia has been poor. The India deal to purchase aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov was for $960m. It finally agreed to pay $2.3bn due to severe cost escalation.
 
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So no F-35's?
Also the concern is rightly placed if they are going to deliver first F-16 in 2025.
 
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Not really!!! Because USAF themselves are doing SELP upgrade to their F16 C/D block 40/42 and 50/52 to this standards to operate till 2048. If that is the timeframe USAF is looking for these beasts, I think the same should suffice for IAF too. By that timeframe newer platforms will get introduced to the fleet like HAL AMCA. Cheers!!!


Not really!!! Because USAF themselves are doing SELP upgrade to their F16 C/D block 40/42 and 50/52 to this standards to operate till 2048. If that is the timeframe USAF is looking for these beasts, I think the same should suffice for IAF too. By that timeframe newer platforms will get introduced to the fleet like HAL AMCA. Cheers!!!
Yet another ID.
Upgrading older system is one thing, inducting it is another matter.
Between all this wonder what happens to Tejas.
 
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This deal is a win win situation for India.

Rafale production line is also expected to be set up in India.

This production will be useful just in case China and Pakistan attack India. India is going to churn out as many fighter jets as possible in the next 5 years or so.

F16 Block 70 is an amazing fighter jet better suited for India.

India is going to produce LCA's, Rafales, F16's and other big ticket defense products in the near future.

India is becoming a defense manufacturing out sourcing destination for the globe.
 
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@Windjammer is funny...he always says F Sola are the world's best, and is the super duper fighter ever produced or will ever be produced and now he produces an post that say F16's are obsolete.
@ito ....You are obviously high on something, F-16 is indeed a very potent aircraft today but ten years down the line, even you might be on a rocking chair.
 
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@ito ....You are obviously high on something, F-16 is indeed a very potent aircraft today but ten years down the line, even you might be on a rocking chair.

India is not buying just F16s...it is buying the whole production line...that will help India in its own fighters planes, and will create an environment for make in India defence industry. Moreover, USAF are flying F16s until 2048....so ample time...and there are around 4000 F16 flying in the world...so spare part will be produced in India, a source of valuable forex.

Anyway F16s will not be the mainstay of IAF, it will be Rafales and SU30MKIs...if F16 deal materializes, they will replace MIG 21s.
 
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F-16 blk 70 is a 4+ gen fighter. So is JF-17. tell me how f-16 will become obsolete and JF-17 would not in next 10 years?
Firstly, it's your own defense experts pointing to this fact.
JF-17 is today, in ten years it would be operational in numbers in Block-3 form.....not just coming off the production lines.
 
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This deal is a win win situation for India.

Rafale production line is also expected to be set up in India.

This production will be useful just in case China and Pakistan attack India. India is going to churn out as many fighter jets as possible in the next 5 years or so.

F16 Block 70 is an amazing fighter jet better suited for India.

India is going to produce LCA's, Rafales, F16's and other big ticket defense products in the near future.

India is becoming a defense products out sourcing destination for the globe.

I doubt Rafale production line will be setup in India. Navy is floating for 57 fighters...if Rafale wins that contacts then there could be some part of Rafale supply chain shifting to India, but not the whole production line.

However, with F16 it is different, they will totally shift their F16 production line to India, and there is always a possibility of F16 production line to upgrade to produce F35s in future.
 
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I doubt Rafale production line will be setup in India. Navy is floating for 57 fighters...if Rafale wins that contacts then there could be some part of Rafale supply chain shifting to India, but not the whole production line.

However, with F16 it is different, they will totally shift their F16 production line to India, and there is always a possibility of F16 production line to upgrade to produce F35s in future.

Yes if India selects Rafale, they will set up production line as well as source some of the components from India.

F16's is only a start. there are some other big ticket defense deals that are expected to be announced.

Personally I would like to see F35's in Indian Navy on the 4 LPD's that are planned.
 
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By the time we'll be inducting 5th gen jets, indians will be getting their first F-16s :lol:

Whatever happened to the failure tejashit? :rofl::rofl:

JF-17s been deployed in numbers, getting upgraded, has competed tens of thousands of flying hours, and have gotten actual real time air-to-air kills (let alone shooting down Su-27s in air-combat exercises).

While tejas is still being carried on the truck.
 
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