Is it possible to convert su-30 into stealth or semi stealth?

[Omega007]

Self delete.
Reason:I should never have talked in such hard manner with a new member.
Sorry bro.

 

[Omega007]

@ prateek . . Was u silent from long time or m i missing something . .

I m also agree with kinetic and omega that instead of reducing RCS we better to concentrate on EW system and develop a platform like growler that will be more effective

DARE has already developed a prototype of a 4th generation electronic warfare system with a very strong barrage jammer which is being tested onboard a Mig 27.The jammer is fitted with a frequency analysing system,higspeed processor,a Digita Radio Frequency Memory device and multiple GaN solidstate transponders as its emitters.This system can jam multiple radars,missile seekers simulteniously.It can also jam the communication,datalinks of enemy AWACS,fightes and bvr missiles rendering them useless.When ready they will go onboard all MKIs,Mig 29/27s and Jaguars.
REGARDS....

 

[gambit]

...

yo I do understand that you dont have a clue of what a LPI EASA is because neither the Rafale nor the Typhoon will have them in the 20+ years...

And I doubt you have an understanding on what is LPI to start.

Edit: you can clearly see there is NO edit in my original post... and Gambit can think what he wants he cant prove anything also...

I will put my posts about these things against yours any day and people will see YOU as the one who is clueless.

 

[gambit]

DARE has already developed a prototype of a 4th generation electronic warfare system with a very strong barrage jammer which is being tested onboard a Mig 27.The jammer is fitted with a frequency analysing system,higspeed processor,a Digita Radio Frequency Memory device and multiple GaN solidstate transponders as its emitters.This system can jam multiple radars,missile seekers simulteniously.It can also jam the communication,datalinks of enemy AWACS,fightes and bvr missiles rendering them useless.When ready they will go onboard all MKIs,Mig 29/27s and Jaguars.
REGARDS....

DRFM is hopeful at best against a well programmed and hardware equipped AESA system, which pretty much mean DRFM techniques is best against second tier air forces.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/66507-how-counter-bvr-missiles-drfm.html#post1019767

 

[gambit]

it shows that a Growler was effective enoug at jamming the F-22 with its Jammers to get a kill against the king of the air, so for all intents and purposes the Growler became an Stealth air craft...

A 'stealth' aircraft is NOT supposed to be an emitter. Jamming is active, meaning the aircraft is constantly transmitting, revealing its location. So for you to say that jamming is making an aircraft 'stealth' means you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

you can't provide a credible source neither... so I'll take my odds on powerful jammers

I am challenging your claim based upon established science and lack of information on your part. My sources are well known. Yours is not.

 

[gambit]

@ prateek . . Was u silent from long time or m i missing something . .

I m also agree with kinetic and omega that instead of reducing RCS we better to concentrate on EW system and develop a platform like growler that will be more effective

Jamming is like holding a large shield. I may not be able to make YOU and your pals behind the shield, but I can see that 'something' anomalous in the air is moving. Being low radar observable is like a well camouflaged sniper. Take your pick.

 

[gambit]

for bolded part > true. i watched a show on discovery. in show they showed two jet engines. one normal another with improved engine nozzles. they started both engines and showed video of both engines taken by using infrared camera. the engine with improved nozzles was emitting shorter heat wave.

i guess USA started using improved nozzles due to costly jet losses in Vietnam and in later part of Vietnam war all us fighter jets had improved nozzles.

Here you go...

A 'non-circular' exhaust is cooler.

 

[Omega007]

THANX gambit.You are an asset to this forum. The russians told that they will install a 1800 t/r module AESA radar on PAKFA.Do you think it will have electronic attack capability similar to the F 22?THANX in advance.
By the way teaching localoca is like trying to teach flying an .lol.So please don't waste your time.
REGARDS....

 

[gambit]

THANX gambit.You are an asset to this forum. The russians told that they will install a 1800 t/r module AESA radar on PAKFA.Do you think it will have electronic attack capability similar to the F 22?THANX in advance.

Assuming the T/R modules are of high quality, at this point it all depends on the programming...

The antenna is NOT the main array. The antenna contains or hold the main array. The two main programs are: subarray partitioning and subarray choreography. There are nine subarrays in (c). You can guess how many are in (b).

The larger the main array, the more subarrays can produced for different purposes, including for electronic warfare. But then again, it all depends on the quality of the subarray programming.

 

[Black Widow]

Here you go...

A 'non-circular' exhaust is cooler.

Thanks Gambit, your posts are gems to the forum.. I would like to add few more things to ur post..

1. Ceramic Treatment of nozzle also reduce heat signature... Ceramic tiles are place in the nozzle of jet engine to absorb the heat. If You see white ceramic tiles next time, remember my words...
2. Covering the exhaust by cold air: Engine is design in such manner that a cold air envelop cover the exhaust "To reduce the hot engine emissions, or infrared signature, the engine exhaust is designed to mix efficiently with the surrounding cold air. The same solution also helps quiet the engines."

 

[Omega007]

Hey gambit sir,I have a off topic question to ask.Can you please pass some info about the self sharpening tungsten round the south koreans are using?I mean what is this 'self sharpening'?How does it work?
THANX in advance.

 

[gambit]

Is it possible to convert present and next all sukhoi 30 into stealth or semi stealth? give your suggestions.

The proper question for all pre-Raptor aircrafts should be: How much can an aircraft's radar cross section (RCS) be reduced through limited applications of techniques that are used to design the F-22 class aircraft?

The answer is typical: depends.

When an aircraft is in the design stages, we attempt to satisfy as much aerodynamic requirements as possible in the theoretical realm. Then inevitably we run into 'real world' demands such as material limitations, air density due to altitude, maintenance issues, etc, and the list is considerable. Once the design is finished, meaning approved for production, any changes to its basic design runs the risk of compromising aerodynamics and possibly rendering the modified design unflyable.

With the advent of RCS controls through shaping, the risk of making a currently flying aircraft unflyable is even greater because aerodynamic forces and radar signals affect the same place: the outer surface of the aircraft. Altering this area to benefit one desire can mean disaster for what is established. All we have to do is look at the F-15's and F-16's conformal fuel tanks and see evident of this risk. Those CFTs are not shaped on a whim. Their shapes are the result of long wind tunnel analysis that balances all competing desires: aerodynamics, capacity, and maintenance. Not even taking into RCS reduction consideration.

So is it possible to reduce the Su-30's RCS? Absolutely. The issue is how much and at what expense. I would caution everyone not to take seriously any claim by anyone who say either 'Yes' or 'No' unless the claimant is willing to risk prison time by revealing his work on the project.

 

[gambit]

Hey gambit sir,I have a off topic question to ask.Can you please pass some info about the self sharpening tungsten round the south koreans are using?I mean what is this 'self sharpening'?How does it work?
THANX in advance.

Dunno about that...But I do remember from my A-10 pals that depleted uranium (DU) rounds that upon impact and shattered, the fragments are self sharpening. There is something about the property of the element itself.

Depleted Uranium

DU can be used to engage the enemy at greater distances than tungsten penetrators or high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds because of improved ballistic properties. When they strike a target, tungsten penetrators blunt while DU has a self-sharpening property. DU ammunition routinely provides a 25 percent increase in effective range over traditional kinetic energy rounds.

You might want to check your sources on your question.

 

[ptltejas]

Benifit of reduced RCS
(1) Can not identified easily at distance as per imagination if with big rcs plane identified at 200km away (20 rcs) reduced might be at 50 km only (purely on bases of imagination.
(2) Raddar guided fire & forget missile may disturbed as that missile have no aesa raddar,poowerful raddar. so against that missile plane might be safe.
(3) In case of failure of Radar this should be helpful at certain extent. as sukhoi turn into defensive roll rather than offensive.
(4) Instead enemy's powerful AESA Radar other simple radar might be failed to identify easily.

[/QUOTE]


QUERY: perhaps AESA fails whether reduced RCS as much possible as instead drastically change in frame be useful?

 

[Omega007]

Benifit of reduced RCS
(1) Can not identified easily at distance as per imagination if with big rcs plane identified at 200km away (20 rcs) reduced might be at 50 km only (purely on bases of imagination.
(2) Raddar guided fire & forget missile may disturbed as that missile have no aesa raddar,poowerful raddar. so against that missile plane might be safe.
(3) In case of failure of Radar this should be helpful at certain extent. as sukhoi turn into defensive roll rather than offensive.
(4) Instead enemy's powerful AESA Radar other simple radar might be failed to identify easily.



QUERY: perhaps AESA fails whether reduced RCS as much possible as instead drastically change in frame be useful?

First of all a clean F15 has rcs of 10 sp meter.So rcs of MKI should be somewhere close not 20 sq meter as both are of similer size.Now suppose we reduce the rcs of MKI at 3 sq meter with expencive RAM coatings because redesigning the air frame will be prohibitively costly and more over can turn them unflyable.Now you can't put an internal weapon bay in between the intakes as it is used to generate the lift.So what good the reduced rcs will do?But if you can put a powerful active barrage jammer with the DRFM device and a powerful AESA radar the combo will enable you to jam the enemy comunication,datalinks and if all fails you can fry their electronics by focusing your AESA beam at them.So instead of trying to redesign the airframe all along a powerful EWS will be much more deadly and will give the best bang for the buck.
Still for your information let me tell you that some times ago MoD gave approval to mass produce 2 stealth materials.
1.Microwave absorbing nano composite coating made by IIT Kanpur.Can absorb 90% of incoming radar waves at 15 GHz.
2.Stealth coating for plexi glass canopy of fighters similar to F 16s.Developed by Association for Cultivation of Science,Kolkata.
IAF has cleared them to use on the frontline fighters.
Lastly,why are you speculating abou the rcs and radar range.Read radar basics from google and become an expert.Hope I did not bore you.
REGARDS....