What's new

Is India really growing faster than China?

terranMarine

BANNED
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
7,597
Reaction score
-18
Country
China
Location
Serbia
India’s bragging rights for growing faster than China, making it the world’s fastest growing major economy, have taken a severe knock as even its already dubious official growth figures are now betraying signs of a slowdown.

The latest numbers published for the April-June quarter show gross domestic product (GDP) is growing at an annualised 7.1 per cent, a sharp drop from 7.9 per cent in the previous quarter. This is the slowest growth rate in five quarters.

70 to 2: What the Rio Olympics medal tally says about China-India comparisons
China is projected to end 2016 with a growth rate of 6.7 per cent, impressive for a US$11.4 trillion giant that’s nearly five times bigger than India’s US$2.3 trillion economy.

According to Ritika Manka Mukherjee of Ambit Capital, India would grow no more than 6.8 per cent in 2015-16, well short of the government’s projection of 7.6 per cent, and would be stuck with the same pace for the current fiscal year of 2016-17 to March 2017.

“We don’t expect growth to accelerate because of three drags. One, moderate or slowing government and private investment; two, reduced private equity or venture capital inflows; and three, suffocation in bank lending to the economy.”

Like China’s, India’s official growth figures themselves are considered by many as grossly inflated, meaning the economy could actually be growing at a far slower pace. Among those who doubt the official numbers is Ruchir Sharma, chief global strategist at Morgan Stanley.

China and India look to strengthen relationship
Sharma has been sceptical about India’s figures since the government claimed 7 per cent growth for 2014-15. Sharma called it, “a bad joke, smashing India’s credibility and making its statistics bureau a laughing stock in global financial circles”.

GDP is the sum of public and private consumption, investment, government spending and net exports. Individually, these don’t add up to New Delhi’s claims. Exports are weak, industry and earnings growth sluggish, investments have declined and consumption is flat.

The fall in rural demand, after two successive years of drought and a patchy monsoon this year, is reflected in the results of HUL, the local arm of Unilever, the largest seller of fast-moving consumer goods like soaps and shampoo. For two successive quarters, its volume growth has been a tepid 4 per cent.

New Delhi acknowledges that investment has slumped from its 32 per cent-plus peak during 2014, to less than 28 per cent of GDP. This reflects a deeper malaise: falling investment reflects pessimism about the future.

In a shifting world, India and China must look closer at ties that bind
Rail freight shrank 13.5 per cent to its all-time low by April this year and again by 7 per cent in July. Compare this to the near 10 per cent growth levels in 2011. India’s rail system carries most of the bulk goods that drive the economy, including fertiliser, coal, grain, cement, steel and ores, making freight an important indicator of the economy’s health.

India is also staring at a huge financial crisis. According to IMF data released in May, India’s banks have the largest amount of bad debt to total lending – at 5.9 per cent – among all Asian nations. That compares with China’s 1.5 per cent and Korea’s 0.6 per cent. Consequently, lending has dried up, hampering growth.

Doubts over official numbers have emerged since the Narendra Modi government decided last year to count GDP based on Gross Value Added (GVA) at market price rather than factor cost, and changed the base year of GDP calculation to 2011-12 from 2004-05. The new methodology raised India’s growth to 7.3 per cent in 2015 fiscal year compared with 5.5 per cent under the previous system.

India Foreign Minister warns of ‘food crisis’ facing labourers as construction in Gulf states slows
India’s GDP breakdown has also seen an extraordinary jump in an item called “discrepancies”, confounding economists. “Discrepancies” contributed 51 per cent of the growth in the March quarter. Without these “discrepancies”, India’s growth at constant prices is estimated to have been just 3.9 per cent rather than 7.9 per cent.

This is the reason why this July, the US State Department in its “Investment Climate Statements for 2016” report said India’s 7.5 per cent growth is “overstated” and that the Modi government had failed to match “rhetoric” with reform.

Modi’s Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) came to power in 2014 largely on the promise of turning around a moribund economy.

Even outgoing central bank governor Raghuram Rajan, has expressed scepticism about growth numbers. “We have to be careful about how we calculate these figures,” he was quoted by the Indian press as saying in January. “If mother A went to look after the children of mother B and mother B went to look after the children of mother A, and they each paid each other an equal amount, GDP would go up by the sum of the two salaries. But would the economy be better off?”

India has largest number of stunted children in the world, study finds
But Pronab Sen, the country’s former chief statistician, defended the numbers. “India has a decentralised statistical system in which nearly 40 central ministries or departments collect data, and every state has its own data collection system. With such a diffuse structure, it is impossible to ensure data integrity across the full spectrum,” he said, insisting there were enough checks and balances to ensure data integrity.

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/business/article/2012338/india-really-growing-faster-china
 
.
Well...fundamentally the scale is different, China and India are at completely different developmental stages.
But India indeed is developing at a very fast speed.


Comparing Ecommerce Opportunity in China and India.png



Both countries have not very good per capita index.
Manufacuring Value-Added Per Capita 2012.png
 
.
Modi faces challenges to upstage China as India economic growth hits 15-month low

India's economy grew at its slowest pace in 15 months in the April to June quarter, highlighting the challenges faced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government to cement the country's position as a driver of global growth amid a slowdown in neighboring China.

The South Asian country logged 7.1 percent gross domestic product (GDP) growth in the first quarter of the current fiscal year, down from 7.9 percent in the preceding quarter, data released late on Wednesday showed.

Even though the rate is faster than in China which posted 6.7 percent in the second quarter of 2016 and the Philippines which saw 7 percent growth in the same period, the pace of economic expansion is still behind New Delhi's 8 percent average growth target.

Despite the South Asian nation's pace of growth, investors shouldn't expect the country to displace China as it is a smaller economy, said Mizuho Bank's senior economist, Vishnu Varathan.

"There's no way India would displace China even if we would agree the speedometer says that India is faster," he told CNBC's "The Rundown" on Thursday.

India's economic growth is also uneven with the industrial sector weighed down, in part, by excess capacity in China which is spilling over as refiners and miners cut capital expenditure, he added.

Gross fixed capital formation declined by 3.1 percent from a year earlier in the June quarter, hardly evidence of an economy firing on all cylinders.

Growth during the June quarter was driven by government spending, which rose 18.8 percent from a year earlier.

The economy also got a lift from private spending, which rose 6.7 percent on-year in the latest quarter, although the pace was slower than the 6.9 percent expansion in the same period a year ago.

It's less clear if the boost from households would persist. Private consumption growth would face limitations as oil prices bottom out, spurring inflation, said Varathan.

Furthermore, private consumption would just support growth at 7 to 7.5 percent. For the 8.5 to 10 percent growth that India is hoping for, industry growth will need to recover, he said.

DBS economist Radhika Rao told CNBC's "Squawk Box" private consumption hadn't fared as well as expected due to weak rural demand, "but the urban part of the story is still doing well".

She is expecting a turnaround in consumption going forward as a good monsoon and higher public sector wages help.

 
. .
.
Modi faces challenges to upstage China as India economic growth hits 15-month low

India's economy grew at its slowest pace in 15 months in the April to June quarter, highlighting the challenges faced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government to cement the country's position as a driver of global growth amid a slowdown in neighboring China.

The South Asian country logged 7.1 percent gross domestic product (GDP) growth in the first quarter of the current fiscal year, down from 7.9 percent in the preceding quarter, data released late on Wednesday showed.

Even though the rate is faster than in China which posted 6.7 percent in the second quarter of 2016 and the Philippines which saw 7 percent growth in the same period, the pace of economic expansion is still behind New Delhi's 8 percent average growth target.

Despite the South Asian nation's pace of growth, investors shouldn't expect the country to displace China as it is a smaller economy, said Mizuho Bank's senior economist, Vishnu Varathan.

"There's no way India would displace China even if we would agree the speedometer says that India is faster," he told CNBC's "The Rundown" on Thursday.

India's economic growth is also uneven with the industrial sector weighed down, in part, by excess capacity in China which is spilling over as refiners and miners cut capital expenditure, he added.

Gross fixed capital formation declined by 3.1 percent from a year earlier in the June quarter, hardly evidence of an economy firing on all cylinders.

Growth during the June quarter was driven by government spending, which rose 18.8 percent from a year earlier.

The economy also got a lift from private spending, which rose 6.7 percent on-year in the latest quarter, although the pace was slower than the 6.9 percent expansion in the same period a year ago.

It's less clear if the boost from households would persist. Private consumption growth would face limitations as oil prices bottom out, spurring inflation, said Varathan.

Furthermore, private consumption would just support growth at 7 to 7.5 percent. For the 8.5 to 10 percent growth that India is hoping for, industry growth will need to recover, he said.

DBS economist Radhika Rao told CNBC's "Squawk Box" private consumption hadn't fared as well as expected due to weak rural demand, "but the urban part of the story is still doing well".

She is expecting a turnaround in consumption going forward as a good monsoon and higher public sector wages help.
Actually 6, 7 or 8, sounds similar to me....
But you know, China's size is different, even we grow at 5%, China is still the number one contributor of the world economy.


eca86bd9df04192f6b1e3f.jpg


Stephen Roach, chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia Ltd, speaks at the 11th Seoul International Financial Forum in Seoul, South Korea, April 29, 2010. [Photo/VCG]


WASHINGTON - Despite concerns about the slowdown of the world's second-largest economy, China remains the single largest contributor to global economic growth, a US expert said on Monday.

If China's economy grows at 6.7 percent in 2016, in line with the government's official target, it would account for 1.2 percentage points of global GDP (gross domestic product) growth this year, said Stephen Roach, a senior fellow at Yale University and former chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia.

With the International Monetary Fund (IMF) currently expecting the world economy to expand at only 3.1 percent this year, China would contribute nearly 39 percent of the overall global growth, dwarfing the contribution of other major economies, Roach wrote in an analysis on news site Project Syndicate.

The US economy, the world's largest economy, is expected to grow at 2.2 percent this year, contributing just 0.3 percentage points to overall global GDP growth, or only about one-fourth of the contribution made by China, according to the expert.

"China's contribution to global growth is, in fact, 50 percent larger than the combined 0.8-percentage-point contribution likely to be made by all of the so-called advanced economies," he said.

Moreover, no developing country comes close to China's contribution to global growth, according to Roach. For example, India is expected to grow by 7.4 percent this year, but it would likely contribute just 0.6 percentage points to global growth as the country accounts for only 7.6 percent of world output.

"No matter how you slice it, China remains the world's major growth engine," Roach said, noting that global economic growth "remains heavily dependent" on China even if the economy is transitioning to what the Chinese leadership has dubbed the "new normal."

Highlighting a "China-centric global growth dynamic," Roach believed the global economy stands to benefit greatly from a successful rebalancing of China's economy towards services and household consumption.

"A successful Chinese rebalancing scenario has the potential to jump-start global demand with a new and important source of aggregate demand -- a powerful antidote to an otherwise sluggish world," he said, noting that Chinese domestic demand has the potential to become an increasingly important source of export-led growth for China's major trading partners.

"Despite all the focus on the United States, Europe, or Japan, China continues to hold the trump card in today's weakened global economy," Roach said. "The world needs a successful China more than ever."
 
. .
It is true, India grew with 7.1% still it was higher than expected after 2 year of draught.

Worst is over now. Rain gods are in happy mood with above average monsoon rains this year.

But that was agriculture part . Manufacturing is surging fast.

India’s manufacturing PMI at 13-month high in August
http://www.livemint.com/Industry/fC...ufacturing-PMI-at-13month-high-in-August.html
I have a question, why is rain so related to Indian economy?
I have never read an article that claims the floods and rain in the summer have a big impact on China's economy.
 
.
I have a question, why is rain so related to Indian economy?
I have never read an article that claims the floods and rain in the summer have a big impact on China's economy.
Primary reason is because rainfall is heavily skewed to just 2-3 months of monsoon. If these 2-3 months go dry, there is a drought situation, and while rest of the year goes as per average rainfall, very high rains in these 2-3 months will result in flooding, loss of life, property and a total destruction of crops.
 
. .
India is catching up fast, we need to create some new strategic industry such as Space Expores, Sea Bed atomic resources and high-speed transportation.
Automation is the key....
China should lead the current revolution in technology.


Robot-theme Wedding

Gree in Zhuhai

Siasun in Shenyang,


Estun in Nanjing
 
.
Well...fundamentally the scale is different, China and India are at completely different developmental stages.
But India indeed is developing at a very fast speed.


View attachment 330760


Both countries have not very good per capita index.
View attachment 330761

Those numbers look really wrong for e-commerce

For 2015 the number was around 20 billion USD and it will double this year to 40 billion most likely:

http://www.medianama.com/2016/06/223-iamai-ecommerce-study/

That doubling will probably continue for a while as internet access (in depth as well as coverage) really hits its stride.

Do you have more recent data for manufacturing value added? There has been a lot of growth in India over last few years here.

In fact the recent growth for the quarter didn't display the manufacturing pace that well which is now consistently expanding at 9 - 10%.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...month-high-in-august/articleshow/53957352.cms

Also some more info:

untitled-34.jpg
 
.
I have a question, why is rain so related to Indian economy?
I have never read an article that claims the floods and rain in the summer have a big impact on China's economy.

Due to peculiar geography of Indian subcontinent. 80% of rains happens only in three months of July August and September.

Irrigation is restricted in peninsular India due to rough topography and ancient granite gneiss basement rocks which are not good acquifer for ground water.

So In most parts, agriculture is dependent on monsoonal rains. Delay or early withdrawal or break of monsoonal rain causes havoc.

And in India about 55% of manpower still dependent on agriculture.Bad monsoon affects their purchasing power which carry upstream stress.

Indian finance minister in 1955 famously said that Indian budget is nothing more than a gamble in monsoon. His words are still relevant though with lesser degree as economy diversify.

Thnx
 
.
Those numbers look really wrong for e-commerce

For 2015 the number was around 20 billion USD and it will double this year to 40 billion most likely:

http://www.medianama.com/2016/06/223-iamai-ecommerce-study/

That doubling will probably continue for a while as internet access (in depth as well as coverage) really hits its stride.

Do you have more recent data for manufacturing value added? There has been a lot of growth in India over last few years here.

In fact the recent growth for the quarter didn't display the manufacturing pace that well:

untitled-34.jpg
It was a chart from 2014.
Manufacturing value added was in 2012.
Of course, not accurate.
 
.
The Truth is much different than the % stages of growth.

The qualitative difference between the two economies is too wide to be compared.

China has moved up the Value Chain. The focus now is qualitative growth backed by innovation in the entire economic spectrum.

So the growth rate of even 5% would mean much more Value generation than ever before.

We wish india all the best to grow and eliminate poverty first and far most.

Somehow, these comparisons don't do justice to either economies...two very different models of growth and structures of economies.
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom