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Is India really growing faster than China?

Automation is the key....
China should lead the current revolution in technology.


Robot-theme Wedding

Gree in Zhuhai

Siasun in Shenyang,


Estun in Nanjing

I have a question. Sir we are a billion plus nations. Those billion need a job. Do automation revolution or call it forth Industrial revolution will not affect those billions ?
 
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It was a chart from 2014.
Manufacturing value added was in 2012.
Of course, not accurate.

I guess the 2014 study would have used the data till 2013, and the growth was not looking too great as you can see below.

There was a big spurt from 2013 to 2014 and then 2014 to 2015, so its definitely not such flat growth that is going to happen. For example this year it will be around 30 - 40 billion USD of e-commerce. Next year (2017) if it continues the rate of growth...about 50 - 65 billion etc...

e-commerce-market-size.jpg
 
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I have a question. Sir we are a billion plus nations. Those billion need a job. Do automation revolution or call it forth Industrial revolution will not affect those billions ?
Of course it will affect....
So the next 1-2 decades the global economy will be reshaped....
It could be terrible news to many countries, both developed or developing.
I think for China, we need move up the supply chain faster.
The jobs in manufacturing will significantly decrease in the next decade.
But the total value of China's manufacturing is actually on the rise though we need less workers.
So many people can find jobs in the service sector.
However, a thriving service sector relies on a thriving industrial sector.



https://defence.pk/threads/robot-theme-wedding.445479/

屏幕快照 2016-08-01 20.13.59.png
 
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@Nilgiri

China's E-Commerce Addiction Has Serious Market Potential

I am admittedly an Amazon shopping addict, so it was interesting to have a long conversation recently with Chinese colleagues in Nanning about their own growing addictions to online shopping. They are big fans of Taobao, although they also use other e-commerce sites like JD.com and Suning.com. My colleagues are representative of a larger trend of Chinese consumers shifting partly from brick-and-mortar shopping to online shopping, and expanding online shopping in its own right. E-commerce now represents a high-growth sector.

Though relatively new to online shopping, Chinese consumers already make up for almost half of global online retail sales, and are only growing in numbers. Online retail sales amounted to $581.61 billion in 2015, surging 33.3% from the previous year. The volume of online sales in China now exceeds that in the US, and online sales are expected to grow 20% annually by 2020. Furthermore, online shoppers represent the vanguard of China’s growth story, since they tend to be young, urban, and highly educated. They have a different attitude toward shopping than older generations, which were shaped as savers by more challenging political and economic circumstances. Younger shoppers are more willing to spend.

Compared to brick-and-mortar retailing in China, e-commerce sales often experience fewer licensing requirements and quicker customs clearance. As a result, e-commerce is to some extent replacing shopping in physical marketplaces, and will comprise 42% of growth in private consumption by 2020 according to Boston Consulting and AliResearch. For this reason and others, hypermarkets such as Carrefour and Walmart have shut down a number of stores. Online shopping also allows consumers to access products that are not available in stores, including organic foods and some luxury products from overseas.

As consumers in Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities (think Beijing, Shanghai, but also Chongqing and Chengdu) become increasingly savvy online shoppers, there continues to be large potential for online sales particularly in Tier 3 and 4 cities. E-commerce penetration amounts to 89% in Tier 1 and 2 cities, but only amounts to 62% in Tier 3 and 4 cities, as per the McKinsey iConsumer China 2016 Survey. The online shopper base in Tier 3 and 4 cities is 257 million, a population number that is larger than that of almost all countries in the world (except India, China as a whole, and the United States). That is serious market potential.

To keep up with increasing demand from smaller urban and rural areas, online retailers are seeking to expand logistics infrastructure and services. For example, Alibaba ’s logistics arm, Cainiao, now owns 180,000 express delivery stations for the shipment of products and has recently expanded its fresh food distribution centers across China. The firm recently completed its first external funding round and is expected to spend $16 billion over the next five to eight years to expand its network. Growth in China’s underdeveloped logistics sector can certainly be expected to accompany the expansion of e-commerce.

China’s torrid growth in online shopping reflects increasing incomes, higher education, and more sophisticated consumption patterns of the typical consumer. Due to the expansion of online retail shopping and the necessary logistical services, e-commerce is at the frontier of consumption growth in China.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahsu/2016/07/16/chinas-growing-e-commerce-addiction/#71f1cf7f3b01
 
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Wow.......Japan is so far ahead in this field. :o:
France why do you always have to be almost similar/equal to us in most fields??@vergeness :pissed:
Germany should be your model in Europe
while we are eyeing Japan in East Asia.

Online retail sales amounted to $581.61 billion in 2015, surging 33.3% from the previous year.
I think there are different definitions of e-commerce sales, for example online travelling products are included or not.

https://www.techinasia.com/china-ecommerce-spending-to-blast-past-1-trillion-in-2017

This article claims China’s online shoppers are on course to spend US$672 billion in 2015

The Emarketer team reckons China’s ecommerce market will only slow moderately as the mature industry edges closer to saturation. By 2017, data suggests China’s shoppers will cross the trillion bucks milestone by spending US$1.21 trillion online.

eMarketer_Retail_Ecommerce_Sales_in_China_2014-2018_196133.jpg


Due to peculiar geography of Indian subcontinent. 80% of rains happens only in three months of July August and September.

Irrigation is restricted in peninsular India due to rough topography and ancient granite gneiss basement rocks which are not good acquifer for ground water.

So In most parts, agriculture is dependent on monsoonal rains. Delay or early withdrawal or break of monsoonal rain causes havoc.

And in India about 55% of manpower still dependent on agriculture.Bad monsoon affects their purchasing power which carry upstream stress.

Indian finance minister in 1955 famously said that Indian budget is nothing more than a gamble in monsoon. His words are still relevant though with lesser degree as economy diversify.

Thnx
I am just wondering, can water reservoirs do anything in India?
I'm not saying nature should be completely harnessed.
 
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People forget that Indian population is growing around 1% a year faster than China. So even if we
take the growth rates published by both countries at face value, GDP/capita increase is the same in both.

@AndrewJin
 
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People forget that Indian population is growing around 1% a year faster than China. So even if we
take the growth rates published by both countries at face value, GDP/capita increase is the same in both.

@AndrewJin
I'm glad they have more people :enjoy:
As the Bombay chemistry student @Bussard Ramjet claims, productivity per capita will be the same some centuries later......So, they'd better have more population, say 2 billion.
 
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as even its already dubious official growth figures

China's growth figures are also subject to deep doubt world wide.

I have a question, why is rain so related to Indian economy?
I have never read an article that claims the floods and rain in the summer have a big impact on China's economy.

Because agriculture is still a decent part of India's economy, and a large fraction of our farmers depend on monsoons. So a poor or good monsoon can effect GDP growth rates to the tune of 1-2%.

Automation is the key....
China should lead the current revolution in technology.


Robot-theme Wedding

Gree in Zhuhai

Siasun in Shenyang,


Estun in Nanjing

Automation of everything is impossible with current technology.

Remember, China's textile industry is declining, china's textile exports are shrinking, China's electronic production is also gradually moving into South East Asia. If everything was automatable this would not happen.

Of course it will affect....
So the next 1-2 decades the global economy will be reshaped....
It could be terrible news to many countries, both developed or developing.
I think for China, we need move up the supply chain faster.
The jobs in manufacturing will significantly decrease in the next decade.
But the total value of China's manufacturing is actually on the rise though we need less workers.
So many people can find jobs in the service sector.
However, a thriving service sector relies on a thriving industrial sector.


This was also said in the 1800s when Steam engine, and other machinery started to replace many jobs in the textile industry for instance. But new jobs were created, the total production increased a lot, so jobs were always there.

Similar will happen here. Today's manufacturing jobs, a large part will be supplanted, but a lot of new jobs will open up, total consumption will increase, jobs will only migrate to higher value added manufacturing.


https://defence.pk/threads/robot-theme-wedding.445479/

View attachment 330775

I'm glad they have more people :enjoy:
As the Bombay chemistry student @Bussard Ramjet claims, productivity per capita will be the same some centuries later......So, they'd better have more population, say 2 billion.

I said every human is capable of equal. And that is true. India will be growing at >5% GDP per capita for at least the next 20 years. China won't be doing that.

I don't deny that culture, state system can't have an influence. They can, and do, but they will not have so drastic a difference that India's GDP per capita can't reach within 10% of China's.

Those numbers look really wrong for e-commerce

For 2015 the number was around 20 billion USD and it will double this year to 40 billion most likely:

http://www.medianama.com/2016/06/223-iamai-ecommerce-study/

That doubling will probably continue for a while as internet access (in depth as well as coverage) really hits its stride.

Do you have more recent data for manufacturing value added? There has been a lot of growth in India over last few years here.

In fact the recent growth for the quarter didn't display the manufacturing pace that well which is now consistently expanding at 9 - 10%.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...month-high-in-august/articleshow/53957352.cms

Also some more info:

untitled-34.jpg

What you are talking about in your opening is total Internet Market, which is different from Online Retail Market. In online retail market, only hard stuff that is purchased online counts. Stuff like etickets, online payments, travel etc. are not counted.

And the graph that @AndrewJin gave was correct. We have a lot of catching up to do in e-commerce.

http://scroll.in/article/734941/indias-e-commerce-sector-is-1-80th-the-size-of-chinas

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I am just wondering, can water reservoirs do anything in India?
I'm not saying nature should be completely harnessed.

Reservoirs help but it is not easy to build dams and reservoirs in India. Displayed people would protest of an alleged corruption.Environmentalists along with some NGOs would create a perception that dams would endanger environment . Some Religious saints would go on fast onto death bcz dams would destroy purity of the holy river.One or two Bollywood stars would join the protest.Opposition parties would want to cash on the protests through roadshows and Marchs.Drama would go on for years.(These things really happened in past)

So project would start with delays and cost over runs.

Welcome to Indian way of doing things.:partay:.
 
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Guys, there's nothing wrong with our GDP calculations. There was a bit of confusion earlier, but after data was released, there was no question about the new growth figures. Our Chief Statistician also supported the data. Even using old growth figures, the economy is still doing 5.5-6%, which is pretty good considering the fiscal environment. The addition of the informal sector to GDP calculation had added considerably to growth.

As for the current situation, this article explains some of the problems.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ot-a-general-slow-down-to-blame/#4ffc490d2fbc
 
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Guys, there's nothing wrong with our GDP calculations. There was a bit of confusion earlier, but after data was released, there was no question about the new growth figures. Our Chief Statistician also supported the data. Even using old growth figures, the economy is still doing 5.5-6%, which is pretty good considering the fiscal environment. The addition of the informal sector to GDP calculation had added considerably to growth.

As for the current situation, this article explains some of the problems.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ot-a-general-slow-down-to-blame/#4ffc490d2fbc
I have high anticipation that India should grow at more than 8-9%. Otherwise, when automation matures in East Asia and Germany in the next decade (In Germany industry 4.0 and in China made-in-China 2025), it would be harder for India to progress at a higher speed.
 
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