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Is India really growing faster than China?

We don't often to hear this kind of perspective from Indian members here. Just curious, how many your countrymen share you view?

Everybody does. You don't find that here where people have to deal with stuck up Chinese netizens who preach sermons while still stuck in the middle income economy bucket.

In India, we openly discuss about our problems.
 
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Indians can't handle Chinese been advanced as in their caste system, their NE India orientalist are regarded as scheduled tribes. So Chinese to an extent are untouchables according to how Indians categorize people. So the Brahmins can't handle "untouchable" Chinese been more advance than themselves. It's a reality that overturn their caste system upside down.
Scheduled Tribes (STs) are official designations (specifically to provide affirmative action of reservation's )given to various groups of historically disadvantaged indigenous people in India, usually native tribes. Where did you get untouchable from?
 
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Everybody does. You don't find that here where people have to deal with stuck up Chinese netizens who preach sermons while still stuck in the middle income economy bucket.

In India, we openly discuss about our problems.

Well, if you have an under-performing co-worker who constantly brags about how he deserves to be "The Employee of The Year", you would understand "stuck up" part of Chinese members' attitude here. Like you said, we maybe still a "middle income" economy, but none of us would ever big-mouth about being a "superpower". That is the difference.

Nice to know that Indians are openly discussing India's problems among themselves, then find some solutions to solve the problems rather than fighting some "stuck up" Chinese here. :enjoy:
 
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Well, if you have an under-performing co-worker who constantly brags about how he deserves to be "The Employee of The Year", you would understand "stuck up" part of Chinese members' attitude here. Like you said, we maybe still a "middle income" economy, but none of us would ever big-mouth about being a "superpower". That is the difference.

Your govt does that every other day. Just because you don't use the word "superpower" in the media doesn't mean jack, your media is completely controlled by the CCP. And CCP's actions say otherwise.

Hell, now you've even setup the G2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Two
When the US said they wanted to invite India into the G2 and make it a G3, the Chinese declined.

Not letting India into the NSG, into the UNSC, they are all evidence that India's entry into these clubs are not in line with China's superpower goal. So don't keep blathering about some made up story that China doesn't want to be a superpower like brainwashed robots.

And no, we are not an underperforming co-worker just because you started earlier in your career. In fact we have the potential to surpass you in every sector. Our high growth is coming out of a higher base, without any industry. You are slowing down as a $11.5T economy, while we have only started growing as a $2T economy, and our slow down could happen only many decades later.

Nice to know that Indians are openly discussing India's problems among themselves, then find some solutions to solve the problems rather than fighting some "stuck up" Chinese here. :enjoy:

Yes, we discuss the solutions among ourselves, we don't preach.
 
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India cannot control what China's policy. They are stronger than us now. They can lobby, bully etc. They can arm the Pakistanis. We should not have expectations from them.
We have to tighten our belts and keep growing. We can also take example of Chinese how they have acquired technology be it their own/ buy / steal also one child policy. India should have no enemies now try to acquire technology for manufacturing and investment in everyway possible. Finally we have a govt with long term vision and good ministers. I liked what our PM said in Independence Day speech. He said, We have "swaraj" ( self - governance) but we will have to make sacrifices for "su-raj" (good governance). I thank the Chinese for their investments in India. Huawei RnD mobile manufacturing facilities. Maybe one day they will support India. Even if they don't there are other countries from where India can get technologies.
 
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Though India is growing we are nowhere close to Chinese. Though we have a democracy, China has a nationalist government which can take tough decisions. India needs a govt like that. The biggest problem is social. Most of the people are more obsessed with religion and superstition. The country is so divided skin colour, religion, language, customs, ethnicity. The only way to unite the people is modern education. Only uniting factor in India is the English language. Unfortunately many children in rural India dont get access to good primary education. Education and healthcare is getting privatised. The Indian govt biggest failure has been the failure to provide education and health security to the poor. Yes India is growing but only the city and the upper class. The way things are going India has a long way to become a middle income economy. I don't want to compare India with China or any other country. I dream of the day when every India will have access to health, house, power and education. But one day we will be there. Maybe after 100 years. After 1000 years we have freedom. It's been only 70 years. We have a lot to learn from China. But India will surely eliminate poverty one day
Such comments are seldom heard from PDF RSSers. I especially agree with you on the education part. One thing China has done before 1980 was the compulsory education. Now in China, every child no matter in more developed or less developed pluses is well educated. Vocational education is free for the children from the countryside. In my class, nearly all students from the countryside have received some sort of scholarships, and life on campus is subsidised (Dorm on campus per year is less than 1500yuan per year. @Chinese Bamboo How about your new college? )


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@Dungeness Thanks for the link. A very interesting article written in 1997!
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/aug/10/news/mn-21296/2

Quotes (It was written in 1997)

By the late 1970s, even before the economic reforms introduced by Deng took effect, China began to surge ahead of India in almost every measure of economic and social development.

"China has been described as a 'closed system with open minds,' " commented Kito de Boer, a New Delhi-based consultant with McKinsey & Co. "India is often described as an 'open system with closed minds.' "

(life expectancy and education)
Since 1960, for example, China has added more than 20 years to its citizens' life expectancy. Chinese men live an average of 69 years, Chinese women 71 years. Life expectancy in India, while up, averages 62 years.

In literacy, the differences are more pronounced. Despite a decade of turmoil--the 1966-76 Cultural Revolution, when many schools were shut--China has achieved an adult literacy rate of 81% of its population, compared with 52% for India.

Meanwhile, China's young are moving close to the once seemingly impossible goal of universal literacy. In China, only 3% of adolescent boys and 8% of adolescent girls are illiterate. In India, more than a quarter of adolescent boys and almost half of adolescent girls are illiterate.


(land reforms)
But for a few exceptions--notably agriculturally rich Punjab and Communist-led West Bengal--land reform never came to India.

"In contrast with China," said Delhi University's Mohanty, "India's developmental strategy did not ensure that the land belonged to the tiller, so absentee-landlordism, sharecropping and concealed landlordism are still the norm in most areas."

India's two most populous states--Uttar Pradesh and Bihar--are still plagued by a near-feudal system of absentee landlords and tenant farming.

(employment of labor from the countryside)
"The Chinese," he said, "have an integrated approach to job creation between the farm and off-farm employment which we have not had in this country. The result in India has been the proliferation of urban slums as landless poor people migrate to the big cities of Bombay and Calcutta and Madras, living in utter squalor and deprivation."

China's population increase and agricultural modernization have also produced surplus labor. An estimated 80 million to 100 million people--the "floating population"--are internal migrants, manual laborers, construction workers and curbside vendors in the major cities. But several studies report that an additional 100 million of these people were absorbed by outlying "township enterprises" that India has never developed.




I am especially interested on the last point.
When there are excessive labor because of the reforms in agriculture or losing land, the results are completely different in China and India.

In China, we have plenty of jobs in industry for the non-skilled labor from the countryside. Not just big factories and service sector in Coastal China, but also small and medium enterprises owned by village/township/county can absorb surplus labor. It results in large scale of urbanisation at every level, village/townships/county/city, and it provides an easier way for the non-skilled labor from the countryside to move up to a well-off life. In the mean time, we provide the same public education opportunities for the migrant workers' children. All these aspects ensure a society of huge mobility, from the lower underprivileged class to the well-off class, even middle class and upper class. Our society of meritocracy is underpinned by such mobility.

Provide public education for the migrant workers' children
W020160901408357141199.jpg
W020160901408351178621.jpg


What I am concerned about the landless migrants in India is that they lack a certain easy pathway to enter a higher bracket. You can't really find the same phenomenon in India like what we can see in China: so many migrants from the countryside become millionaires or billionaires, their children become well-respected doctors and scientists. If migrants in India mostly end up in the "slums" (pls don't ban me:cry:), then the land reforms in India will become a chaos and a recipe of social unrest.
 
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India in my opinion needs a very strong govt or a benevolent dictator. Vote politics is problem here. Politicians take the advantage of the religious, caste, ethnic, linguistic differences. The result is absence of strong reforms which may seem to be harsh for some people but is necessary for long term development. Especially in a country like India with limited land. But things are improving though slowly and we will see change in future.
 
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lets all give india a chance n believe in the possibility that she WILL overtake China in the future.

Unfortunately, I dont think that will happen in my lifetime- maybe in my son's- because that would require China to stop growing.
 
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Best wish for Indian people. It would be very interesting to revisit this topic 20 years from now, just like we can check the reality today against the conclusion of the article published 19 years ago.

http://articles.latimes.com/1997/aug/10/news/mn-21296

Very good article. However, the issue is even deeper than how each country approach economic policies. India is inherently a country stitched together by Britain. It cannot start genuine reforms until it revert to many states it was in the past.

This is the most absurd thing anybody could have said on the issue. I knew you were idiotic when it comes to your bias against India but didn't know you were downright dumbo.

When truth hits home, all you can do is ad hominem attacks. This will not help the people of India at all. India need a revolution. Modi is not doing enough and no one will be able to under the current system.
 
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lets all give india a chance n believe in the possibility that she WILL overtake China in the future.

Unfortunately, I dont think that will happen in my lifetime- maybe in my son's- because that would require China to stop growing.

Bro, i believe everyone has the right to dream "BIG", Indians should be no exception to have a dream of their own of "OVER TAKING" China
"Dream on cos its Free" Why not?
 
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Very good article. However, the issue is even deeper than how each country approach economic policies. India is inherently a country stitched together by Britain. It cannot start genuine reforms until it revert to many states it was in the past.
India has bee ruled by Muslim rulers for 1000 years. Then British for 200 years. This was because India was not united. Indians know this and we cherish this.Except in Kashmir ( religion issue ) and Nagaland ( ethnicity) there is no separatist sentiment in India. Staying together is important. Modern education will liberate India from social differences. People will think for the bigger cause and will be liberal and will have necessary skill to provide services. China is growing because China has 1.3 billion people of which many are educated and skilled. India will achieve prosperity through education. It is very difficult for a 1.3 billion educated country to not be prosperous. Example Kerala state in India has highest HDI 0.8 and the highest literacy Inspite of having huge Christian and muslim population.
 
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(life expectancy and education)
Since 1960, for example, China has added more than 20 years to its citizens' life expectancy. Chinese men live an average of 69 years, Chinese women 71 years. Life expectancy in India, while up, averages 62 years.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/life...-health-care-services-inadequate-2790442.html
In 2015, life expectancy at birth was 68.3 years in India which breaks down to 66.9 years for men and 69.9 for women

In literacy, the differences are more pronounced. Despite a decade of turmoil--the 1966-76 Cultural Revolution, when many schools were shut--China has achieved an adult literacy rate of 81% of its population, compared with 52% for India.

Census 2011. Adult literacy rate at 74.4%.
http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011-prov-results/indiaatglance.html

Meanwhile, China's young are moving close to the once seemingly impossible goal of universal literacy. In China, only 3% of adolescent boys and 8% of adolescent girls are illiterate. In India, more than a quarter of adolescent boys and almost half of adolescent girls are illiterate.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/indi...happy-news-mohamed-ibrahim?forceNoSplash=true
It has moved from 12% from British India to 90.2% in 2015 (youth literacy).

In China, we have plenty of jobs in industry for the non-skilled labor from the countryside. Not just big factories and service sector in Coastal China, but also small and medium enterprises owned by village/township/county can absorb surplus labor. It results in large scale of urbanisation at every level, village/townships/county/city, and it provides an easier way for the non-skilled labor from the countryside to move up to a well-off life. In the mean time, we provide the same public education opportunities for the migrant workers' children. All these aspects ensure a society of huge mobility, from the lower underprivileged class to the well-off class, even middle class and upper class. Our society of meritocracy is underpinned by such mobility.

Half our population is still stuck in agriculture.

What I am concerned about the landless migrants in India is that they lack a certain easy pathway to enter a higher bracket. You can't really find the same phenomenon in India like what we can see in China: so many migrants from the countryside become millionaires or billionaires, their children become well-respected doctors and scientists. If migrants in India mostly end up in the "slums" (pls don't ban me:cry:), then the land reforms in India will become a chaos and a recipe of social unrest.

The conditions in China are very recent. Not the case when China started attracting farmers since the 80s.

And China's hukou system is racist towards immigrants from poorer parts of China. In India, migrants can bring their families and cousins into cities in large numbers, no restrictions.

You speak of 100 million people, in India, internal migration is 400 million and only going up. If numbers are controlled, which is not possible in a democracy, then Indian local govts could build settlements like the Urban Villages in China as well.

At least in Mumbai, now we have slum redevelopment projects.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...sia-dharavi-gets-ready-for-a-makeover-2164220

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...sperer-of-mumbai-houses-poor-by-courting-rich

The idea is to legally give slum owners a house for every shanty they own and redevelop the area.
 
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http://www.firstpost.com/india/life...-health-care-services-inadequate-2790442.html




Census 2011. Adult literacy rate at 74.4%.
http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011-prov-results/indiaatglance.html



https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/indi...happy-news-mohamed-ibrahim?forceNoSplash=true




Half our population is still stuck in agriculture.



The conditions in China are very recent. Not the case when China started attracting farmers since the 80s.

And China's hukou system is racist towards immigrants from poorer parts of China. In India, migrants can bring their families and cousins into cities in large numbers, no restrictions.

You speak of 100 million people, in India, internal migration is 400 million and only going up. If numbers are controlled, which is not possible in a democracy, then Indian local govts could build settlements like the Urban Villages in China as well.

At least in Mumbai, now we have slum redevelopment projects.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...sia-dharavi-gets-ready-for-a-makeover-2164220

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...sperer-of-mumbai-houses-poor-by-courting-rich

The idea is to legally give slum owners a house for every shanty they own and redevelop the area.
I'm quoting an article from 1997, it's not wise to quote today's number, on which both countries have witnessed progress.

There would be no difference if Indian farmers come to the city but cannot enjoy the social welfare and education of the city, bring how many relatives is irrelevant. In China, migrant workers come to China and their kids enjoy the same high-level public education. The urbanization rate speaks everything. And China's village and county-owned corporations are very prosperous. The countryside of China enjoys a much higher level of development than India's relatively developed urban regions.
 
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India has bee ruled by Muslim rulers for 1000 years. Then British for 200 years. This was because India was not united. Indians know this and we cherish this.Except in Kashmir ( religion issue ) and Nagaland ( ethnicity) there is no separatist sentiment in India. Staying together is important. Modern education will liberate India from social differences. People will think for the bigger cause and will be liberal and will have necessary skill to provide services. China is growing because China has 1.3 billion people of which many are educated and skilled. India will achieve prosperity through education. It is very difficult for a 1.3 billion educated country to not be prosperous. Example Kerala state in India has highest HDI 0.8 and the highest literacy Inspite of having huge Christian and muslim population.

English is what tie the people of India together. Indian constitution is written in English. This only say that without English, India will not be a country at all. It's historical past is a lie created by Indian government. This is like an European government telling Europeans that Europe has always been one country because of their shared Christian belief and that they are divided all these time because internal civil wars and WWI and WWII were just civil wars.They would point to Roman Empire that Europe has always been one country. Do you hear how rediculous that sound? But Indian government pulled that off with people of India with the assistance of British colonialism. India need to look pass this lies and reject India as a nation in order to start progressing. It's time for each India state to start their own version of Brexit.
 
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India Constitution is both written in English and Hindi
 
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