What's new

Is India one people?

Where are the contradictions in the coloured segments?
First you claimed people of IVC was usurped into Vedic Hinduism, Aryans AKA central Asian steppe people etc.., then you claim IVC Hinduism came from Iranians and Vedic Hinduism arose from Eurasian people. :rofl:
Do you have any idea how cuckoo that sounds? Please whoever reads this just go through it and try to figure it out.

Ask your own scholars whether Hindu philosophy and faith originated in the IVC or not. They will begrudgingly agree with me. So sorry if that bothers you. Also feel free to check if aryanism altered and modified certain facets of this original faith or not. One important point though - don't try to shut down the truth simply because you don't like it. Bhakts have a nasty habit of feigning nonchalance or irreverence by "lolz"ing on fora like this, but then quietly launching a full frontal assault on proponents of "undesirable" history elsewhere. We don't wish to push you into that unfortunate position.
The article you posted is from Audrey Taschke who has an evangelist background must be really the "scholars" I should be asking about my history. Thanks but no thanks. Find something better Mirza.

IVC is not Vedic. Vedism is an aberration of Hinduism's animist precursor. The religion brought to you by steppe landers is a bastardised mutation of a faith that existed before in the developed part of the subcontinent.
Already done dusted, IVC is a dead civilization. Nobody bought anything from the steppe, if that was the case we will know about it from our own religious texts but there is no indication of it even the oldest Rig Veda talks about rivers in India. Your desperate attempts still failed to prove one simple fact, that Vedas didn't originate here. And failed to answer a few questions asked by me, but wandered into your Gods and whatnot, which has nothing to do with the topic or this land at that point in history.

As for King Porus, he was certainly of the IVC fyi. Nevertheless, Alexander could have counterattacked and pushed towards the Ganges. He chose not to as his army was weary. His defeat by Porus and his decision to withdraw from the Indian campaign in general are connected but the defeat is not exclusively causative of the withdrawal.
LOL! Alexander defeated Porus, but he was left alone after he decided to end the campaign because of the Elephant riders you previously mocked, yeah, at the time we used battle elephants in wars which Alexander didn't want to engage moving further east, where a larger and much powerful Kingdom of Nanda awaits. He left leaving his Generals in charge of the conquered land, and these greeks later formed Alliance with the Mauryans (who defeated Nandas) through Marriage. The Greeks later used these elephants in their own campaigns.
 
Remain well within the confines of what your caste status has pre-ordained for you please.
You know a person is unsettled when he resorts to petty insults.😁
But didn't expect this kind of an insult from a Pakistani Muslim who is apparently proud that his progressive ancestors changed their religion because of caste issues. Really really progressive but wonder why you guys aren't like a 1st world country if you have always been this progressive.🤔
 
You know a person is unsettled when he resorts to petty insults.😁
But didn't expect this kind of an insult from a Pakistani Muslim who is apparently proud that his progressive ancestors changed their religion because of caste issues. Really really progressive but wonder why you guys aren't like a 1st world country if you have always been this progressive.🤔
The insult is appropriate for those who are proud to remain enslaved.
 
First you claimed people of IVC was usurped into Vedic Hinduism, Aryans AKA central Asian steppe people etc.., then you claim IVC Hinduism came from Iranians and Vedic Hinduism arose from Eurasian people. :rofl:
Do you have any idea how cuckoo that sounds? Please whoever reads this just go through it and try to figure it out.


The article you posted is from Audrey Taschke who has an evangelist background must be really the "scholars" I should be asking about my history. Thanks but no thanks. Find something better Mirza.


Already done dusted, IVC is a dead civilization. Nobody bought anything from the steppe, if that was the case we will know about it from our own religious texts but there is no indication of it even the oldest Rig Veda talks about rivers in India. Your desperate attempts still failed to prove one simple fact, that Vedas didn't originate here. And failed to answer a few questions asked by me, but wandered into your Gods and whatnot, which has nothing to do with the topic or this land at that point in history.


LOL! Alexander defeated Porus, but he was left alone after he decided to end the campaign because of the Elephant riders you previously mocked, yeah, at the time we used battle elephants in wars which Alexander didn't want to engage moving further east, where a larger and much powerful Kingdom of Nanda awaits. He left leaving his Generals in charge of the conquered land, and these greeks later formed Alliance with the Mauryans (who defeated Nandas) through Marriage. The Greeks later used these elephants in their own campaigns.
You're confusing multiple issues. The battle at hydaspes ended in a military victory for Alexander but he would not go further into the subcontinent because Porus became his vassal. Fair enough, technically it is a military defeat of Porus, but Alexander was halted before he got anywhere near your Nanda empire. The point being made, which eludes you as usual, is that Alexander had no desire to advance further, not because of fear of the Nandas, but because of war weariness among his soldiers.

As for "elephant riders", I'm not sure what you're getting at. Clearly, I'm using it as a derogatory slur against gangetic filth. Obviously, I'm well aware that elephants were widely used by multiple ancient armies from Europe, Asia and Africa alike. That Hannibal used elephants in war doesn't place him in the same cultural category as those to whom I refer to as "elephant riders". I can exchange it for "tree swingers" if you prefer.

"you claimed people of IVC was usurped into Vedic Hinduism, Aryans AKA central Asian steppe people etc.., then you claim IVC Hinduism came from Iranians and Vedic Hinduism arose from Eurasian people. :rofl:"

I don't understand where the contradiction lies in what you cited. It's you who's struggling with English today by the looks of it. Yes, I'll say it again, Hindu culture originated in IVC; some Eurasian clowns got wind of it and decided to manipulate it and insert new ideologies when they arrived in the subcontinent. This new slave cult was gleefully lapped up by your ancestors. And here we are today. When have I said anything different? All of the statements are true without being mutually exclusive.

As for the predictable character assassination of an "evangelical", what else was I possibly expecting from the people who love and hate Christine Fair depending on which day of the week it is?
 
(...)

South_Asian_Language_Families.png

I thought there were still communities in India and Pakistan that embraced the Turk identity and could speak the ancestral language to a certain extent.
 
Interesting, being a Bengali you don't take interest in Bengali history

Can't help it. Not all regions have interesting history. Compare Estonia vs Germany.


So BD doesn't need to distance itself from India?

We are both people of the Ganges.

But in your previous posts you mentioned that Hindus haven't anyway contributed anything and everything that's important is Muslim(which is not true of course😁). Or is that specifically reserved for us Indians and not the Hindus of BD?

Hindus haven't contributed anything? Which post, care to mention? I've always held the view that Hindus are the biggest fertilizers of India's open spaces. That's a massive contribution.

Why not? Muslims of Pakistan claim that they ruled India just because they belong to the same religion as the foreign Turks. So by that logic, Indian Christians should be able to claim that they ruled entire India right from the British invasion of Bengal.
Fortunately, Indian Christians are sensible and have a sense of logic😆

Muslims of Pakistan are not one people. Pashtuns did rule your collective asses for centuries. Punjabi Rajputs and other Biradaris were integrated into Mughal elite class so they also ruled your collective asses. Colonialists did not integrate or intermarry with local people. For a blue blooded British, marrying Keralite black Christian like Mughals married Punjabis was unthinkable.

Agreed. Muslims had a chance at one stage but they drowned themselves too much in religion which still is the case today. In this case, I'm referring to the Turks and not the subcontinental Muslims.

The biggest contribution to drowning came from Mongols, not from too much religion. But I can always agree too much religion can come in the way, sooner or later.
 
@masterchief_mirza @Indus Pakistan

This is the legacy these rats in east are holding on to when they call themselves as "Indians".

Clever Brits! Still, they took over a subcontinent that was not the source of a world-renowned trillion dollar economy, but rather was in the helpless downward spiral of some "dark age" according to Modi jee. Bhakts and their poster boy "Maratha empire" were thrilled with the arrival of the British. Finally, someone to side with who was actually capable of defeating the mughals, mysoreans and Bengali Islamic empires.
For a blue blooded British, marrying Keralite black Christian like Mughals married Punjabis was unthinkable.
This is a good point.

The secular republic of India rejects Mughal empires as "foreign", as typified by our friend @Chhatrapati here. However, they espoused a fine example of integration and complete investment in local concerns. They were more "Indian" than the marathas who gleefully allied with colonialists against local empires. This reality flies in the face of hindutva's implications that only hindutva holds native interests in strict regard. Vedic Hindus have time and time again betrayed the subcontinent in favour of foreigners.
 
Last edited:
I thought there were still communities in India and Pakistan that embraced the Turk identity and could speak the ancestral language to a certain extent.
Naah that's not true..you would be hardpressed to find such communities...there are none as such in India...I donot think there are any Pakistan either..there are still many thousands of Pashtuns in Kashmir who still speak the Pashtun language
 
he battle at hydaspes ended in a military victory for Alexander but he would not go further into the subcontinent because Porus became his vassal. Fair enough, technically it is a military defeat of Porus, but Alexander was halted before he got anywhere near your Nanda empire.
Nearly half a decade of discussing this and I still see Gangadeshis still using the Indus Basin to prop their heritage. Porus was from modern day Jhelum and his kingdom covered about the size of Jhelum district. in Pakistan.


1616944165640.png


1616944202089.png


So exactly what a Tamil Dalit, A Bihari bhikari, a Chennai chamar etc have to do with what is part of Indus region Pakistan history is beyond me.

The reason Alexander turned south after he smelled Ganga was not the foul smell as some might think. There were two reasons. First the the kinetic energy of the Greek arrow was running out after having sliced through 2,000 miles. They were tired and if they had gone any further the next stop after conquest oif Gangia was going to be over 1,000 miles east on the Bay of Bengal. Instead the Greeks just consolidated their hold on the Indus region b y heading south to the Arabian Sea.

The second reason was Indus region was known to the Greeks through Persian writings as this region had been the eastern flank of the Acheamenid Persian Empire. The area east of this flant was terra incognita with myth and legends in place of real knowledge. It was end of the known world and Greeks tired did not want to go any further. Thus they changed direction south to home.
 
Naah that's not true..you would be hardpressed to find such communities...there are none as such in India...I donot think there are any Pakistan either..there are still many thousands of Pashtuns in Kashmir who still speak the Pashtun language

There are many more documentaries and local interviews on this topic. There are also many official documents dating back to the Ottoman archives. While the Turks do not even adequately study about their relatives in the Balkans and Africa, relatives more than centuries away do not receive much attention even on an intellectual scale. Of course, there is such a large intersection of populations and civilizations in your geography that the things I am talking about may not be on a scale to be considered in statistical maps.
 
You're confusing multiple issues. The battle at hydaspes ended in a military victory for Alexander but he would not go further into the subcontinent because Porus became his vassal. Fair enough, technically it is a military defeat of Porus, but Alexander was halted before he got anywhere near your Nanda empire. The point being made, which eludes you as usual, is that Alexander had no desire to advance further, not because of fear of the Nandas, but because of war weariness among his soldiers.
Semantics, Alexander won the war with great difficulty, he himself was injured. Why do you think his soldiers wanted to go back? They got demoralized after the war with the tiny Kingdom of Porus. Alexander's generals estimated there is at least 3000 war elephants for Nanda, Porus employed just 85 the wreaked havoc in the Macedonian army.
As for "elephant riders", I'm not sure what you're getting at. Clearly, I'm using it as a derogatory slur against gangetic filth. Obviously, I'm well aware that elephants were widely used by multiple ancient armies from Europe, Asia and Africa alike. That Hannibal used elephants in war doesn't place him in the same cultural category as those to whom I refer to as "elephant riders". I can exchange it for "tree swingers" if you prefer.
Yeah, clearly, but your derogatory slur missed the mark given their status symbol then again, history is not a strong suit among your ilk, rather, I don't know what's your strength, everyone has a stereotype, and yours is :lol: .
Anyway, we probably employed war elephants first, so like I said they were really a good force in conquering lands.
"you claimed people of IVC was usurped into Vedic Hinduism, Aryans AKA central Asian steppe people etc.., then you claim IVC Hinduism came from Iranians and Vedic Hinduism arose from Eurasian people. :rofl:"

I don't understand where the contradiction lies in what you cited. It's you who's struggling with English today by the looks of it. Yes, I'll say it again, Hindu culture originated in IVC; some Eurasian clowns got wind of it and decided to manipulate it and insert new ideologies when they arrived in the subcontinent. This new slave cult was gleefully lapped up by your ancestors. And here we are today. When have I said anything different? All of the statements are true without being mutually exclusive.
Taking a second look, you never contradicted on anything, one needs to be right on at least something to even contradict.

As for the predictable character assassination of an "evangelical", what else was I possibly expecting from the people who love and hate Christine Fair depending on which day of the week it is?
Christine Fair wasn't talking about the history of Islam right? It's not a character assassination, she comes from an evangelical background, so, let's say if Salman Rushdie was to write a book on Islam and if I were to quote him, would you have called it an authentic source? Oh wait.
 
@Chhatrapati

More "evangelists" and their problems with the "Secular Republic of India":

"I recently wrote a biography of Aurangzeb, the major Mughal king who fought Shivaji, published asAurangzeb: The Life and Legacy of India’s Most Controversial King and, in India and Pakistan, asAurangzeb: The Man and The Myth. In accordance with legal advice, I altered some parts of the Indian edition of Aurangzeb, most notably censoring some information about Shivaji. In part this was because he provokes uniquely strong feelings in modern India, but the problems go far deeper than those posed by a single historical figure.

A major concern for scholars who publish on controversial aspects of Indian history is section 295A of the Indian penal code. The statute stipulates a fine or three-year prison term for anyone who writes or speaks ‘with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India’. Section 295A is a broad and highly subjective law. In a nation of more than 1.3 billion people, anyone who finds offence against their religious tradition can invoke the act. Moreover, the law is based on personal sentiments and so it is open to wide interpretation – and abuse.

Section 295A, like many of the country’s laws, is a colonial hangover. In the late 1920s, the British enacted the law in order to calm a violent Hindu-Muslim conflict sparked by a Hindu-authored tract about the Prophet Muhammad’s personal life. The law rested, in part, on the colonial idea that Indians were more like children than adults and so were unable to handle the freedoms enjoyed by Europeans. Despite these colonial origins, independent India has retained this law and the state has been banning books ever since.

Recently, section 295A has been used to silence academics, such as Wendy Doniger, a leading scholar of Hinduism at the University of Chicago. In 2010 Doniger published The Hindus: An Alternative History, which was met with a lawsuit claiming outrage of Hindu sentiment from Dina Nath Batra, a Hindu nationalist known for rewriting Indian textbooks.

One chilling aspect to Batra’s lawsuit were the objections to historical information. Batra alleged, for instance, that Doniger’s book defamed Swami Vivekananda, a 19th-century Hindu monk, by accurately quoting him as once saying ‘give me beef’. Batra argued that, while Vivekananda did in fact say this, repeating the historically accurate statement is nonetheless offensive to modern Hindu sentiments and hence illegal.

Penguin, the Indian publisher of Doniger’s The Hindus, fought Batra’s lawsuit for four years before they agreed, in an out-of-court settlement, to withdraw the book from the Indian market and to pulp all remaining copies. Following this, many Indian publishers now take precautions to avoid similar fiascos. It is rumoured that Indian publishers decline to acquire certain types of books.

Books that are published but might prove controversial are sometimes subjected to a ‘legal read’; a review by a lawyer who flags potentially problematic passages to be edited or removed before publication.

The legal reads of both of my books flagged several summaries of premodern sources or direct quotes as problematic. In the end, I made numerous wording changes to both books and, most dramatically, inAurangzeb I cut several sentences that outlined Shivaji’s caste background and relations with Brahmins, the priestly caste, topics which are especially sensitive to those who subscribe to the modern mythology of Shivaji. In addition, the publisher declined to publish a map in the Indian edition ofAurangzeb showing the extent of the Mughal Empire, noting that a prison term can now await those who publish maps of India without first gaining government approval. "

I actually have sympathy for you people. Your level of actual scholastic knowledge and capacity for free enquiry are hampered by the caustic erosion promoted by your autocratic government. Even maps of the Mughal empire hurt your sentiments.
 
Semantics, Alexander won the war with great difficulty, he himself was injured. Why do you think his soldiers wanted to go back? They got demoralized after the war with the tiny Kingdom of Porus. Alexander's generals estimated there is at least 3000 war elephants for Nanda, Porus employed just 85 the wreaked havoc in the Macedonian army.

Yeah, clearly, but your derogatory slur missed the mark given their status symbol then again, history is not a strong suit among your ilk, rather, I don't know what's your strength, everyone has a stereotype, and yours is :lol: .
Anyway, we probably employed war elephants first, so like I said they were really a good force in conquering lands.

Taking a second look, you never contradicted on anything, one needs to be right on at least something to even contradict.


Christine Fair wasn't talking about the history of Islam right? It's not a character assassination, she comes from an evangelical background, so, let's say if Salman Rushdie was to write a book on Islam and if I were to quote him, would you have called it an authentic source? Oh wait.
Porus isn't one of yours, he's one of ours. The Nandas were your lot. Gangestan did not stop Alexander.

He declined to advance further after the campaign in the Indus region for reasons already mentioned in posts from multiple contributors above. My personal amateur enthusiast's interpretation is that Porus did enough damage to contribute to the ending of Alexander's campaign, but did not cause it in exclusivity.

If you're not offended by the term "elephant riders", then there is no harm in me using it. Your understanding is appreciated in this regard.
 

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom