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Is India one people?

Check my reply to @Indus Pakistan if you haven't already. And calm down, no is coming to change the name of your country.

Ofcourse, who can change the name of Pakistan? No one can.

But any negative narrative about Pakistan will be crushed, rest assured. Specially from those who are still hanging the Garland of slavery on their necks, as a sign of pride and honour.
 
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Ofcourse, who can change the name of Pakistan? No one can.

But any negative narrative about Pakistan will be crushed, rest assured. Specially from those who are still hanging the Garland of slavery on their necks, as a sign of pride and honour.
Clearly you didn't read what I wrote, but that's fine. Thanda lele ab.
 
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Clearly civility doesn't come naturally to you :-) . This is an online forum, don't take things too personally is what I would suggest.

Dont worry about our civility, we are after all the creators of world first civilisation :). There are etiquette of indulging in a debate over online forum, you have read the thread and discussion, otherwise feel free to make a complete muppet out of yourself.
 
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Dont worry about our civility, we are after all the creators of world first civilisation :). There are etiquette of indulging in a debate over online forum, you have read the thread and discussion, otherwise feel free to make a complete muppet out of yourself.
So a person who calls others rats is now lecturing on etiquettes of debating in an online forum. Good night!
Taimoor bhai full mood mein hain.. chhod do bechare ko.. nahin to phat jayenge.
Logging off..good night!
 
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India is a civilization,that is the basis of the indian nation state not any racial or people group.Its indian civ areas plus few tribal groups.
Pakistanis may have some genetic and linguistic similarities with western indians in particular but they are a seperate civilization -the islamic one.Thats why there was partition and although violence should have been avoided it was for the better.You got your pure land,we got our indic empire.

A 1000 years of effort was destroyed at one stroke by dividing the muslims of the subcontinent into 3 and breaking their teeth forever so they would never be in a position to seriously threaten us again above a nuisance level.Thats why congress accepted partition by giving the frontier tribal areas(never really part of indic civilization anyway),sindh and half of bengal and punjab.Get rid of 2/3rd of the muslims in exchange and turn the remaining irrelevant politically.The indics don't have to share the riches and massive resources of india with muslims anymore.
Another important thing that was done was it permanently put an end to the constant migration of groups into india from the west which would have been a nightmare if india remained a confederation as muslim league wanted and millions of pakistanis muslims with massive population growth had the right to move around inside india ,settle down anywhere and also enjoy far more economic power than they can ever access being limited and isolated to the periphery of the western indus-tribal belt and a tame bangladesh surrounded on 3 sides.
 
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Pakistanis Muslims are Whites/Aryans.

Bangladesh Muslims are Blacks/Dravidians.

Indian Hindus are a mixed breed of both Whites/Aryans and Blacks/Dravidians.


Why should Muslims of India unite with non-Muslims of India? We are white/Aryans and have nothing to do with your genes or history.


Our identity will always be Muslims and Muslims only. We do not believe in fake nation states like India.
Stop calling us white. We have nothing to do with degenerate Europeans.
 
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Is this explanation created post 1971?
If not, why did you guys leave East Pakistan area from your name. Did East Pakistanis not object to this name which seemingly excludes their province?
This is from pamphet "Now or Never" printed by Rehmat Ali in 1933 three years after Allama Iqbals call for the mentioned provines of the north west [no Bangla] to be a independent state and 14 years before 1947. Or nearly four decades before 1971.

3, Humberstone Road,
Cambridge, England.
28th January, 1933


Dear Sir or Madam,

I am enclosing herewith an appeal on behalf of the thirty million Muslims of PAKISTAN, who live in the five Northern Units of India--Punjab, North-West Frontier (Afghan) Province, Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. It embodies their demand for the recognition of their national status, as distinct from the other inhabitants of India, by the grant to Pakistan of a separate Federal Constitution on religious, social and historical grounds.

I shall be pleased if you will kindly acquaint me with your valuable opinion on the proposed solution of the great Hindu-Muslim problem. I trust that, vitally interested as you are in a just and permanent solution of that complex problem, the objects outlined in the appeal wiIl meet with your fullest approval and active support.

Yours truly,
Rahmat Ali (Choudhary). (Founder, Pakiistan National Movement)
First issued 1933; reissued 1934



 
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This is from pamphet "Now or Never" printed by Rehmat Ali in 1933 three years after Allama Iqbals call for the mentioned provines of the north west [no Bangla] to be a independent state and 14 years before 1947. Or nearly four decades before 1971.

3, Humberstone Road,
Cambridge, England.
28th January, 1933


Dear Sir or Madam,

I am enclosing herewith an appeal on behalf of the thirty million Muslims of PAKISTAN, who live in the five Northern Units of India--Punjab, North-West Frontier (Afghan) Province, Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. It embodies their demand for the recognition of their national status, as distinct from the other inhabitants of India, by the grant to Pakistan of a separate Federal Constitution on religious, social and historical grounds.

I shall be pleased if you will kindly acquaint me with your valuable opinion on the proposed solution of the great Hindu-Muslim problem. I trust that, vitally interested as you are in a just and permanent solution of that complex problem, the objects outlined in the appeal wiIl meet with your fullest approval and active support.

Yours truly,
Rahmat Ali (Choudhary). (Founder, Pakiistan National Movement)
First issued 1933; reissued 1934



We can create a separate thread if anyone has any objection on my question related to Pakistan's name on this thread.

While this name "Pakistan" fits well for today's Pakistan, how did East Pakistan react to its name? Did they not feel left out since the name does not reflect their territory? Was their any thought given to select a different name in 1947 when East Bengal was becoming part of Pakistan?
Every post has got a background you idiot. Me battered? I am single handley crushing you Indians and putting you in your place. Lol.

Main ekayla he kafi hon tum randiyoon ke ga** pahraney kay liya.
No point in making any effort to counter argue with you when you have gone down to the level of using abusive language. Be happy winning.
 
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India is a civilization,that is the basis of the indian nation state not any racial or people group.Its indian civ areas plus few tribal groups.
Pakistanis may have some genetic and linguistic similarities with western indians in particular but they are a seperate civilization -the islamic one.Thats why there was partition and although violence should have been avoided it was for the better.You got your pure land,we got our indic empire.

A 1000 years of effort was destroyed at one stroke by dividing the muslims of the subcontinent into 3 and breaking their teeth forever so they would never be in a position to seriously threaten us again above a nuisance level.Thats why congress accepted partition by giving the frontier tribal areas(never really part of indic civilization anyway),sindh and half of bengal and punjab.Get rid of 2/3rd of the muslims in exchange and turn the remaining irrelevant politically.The indics don't have to share the riches and massive resources of india with muslims anymore.
Another important thing that was done was it permanently put an end to the constant migration of groups into india from the west which would have been a nightmare if india remained a confederation as muslim league wanted and millions of pakistanis muslims with massive population growth had the right to move around inside india ,settle down anywhere and also enjoy far more economic power than they can ever access being limited and isolated to the periphery of the western indus-tribal belt and a tame bangladesh surrounded on 3 sides.
What are you even saying?
The entire concept of Muslims being another civilization arose because of partition. Without partition, Hindu-Muslim would have been only as different as Brahmin-Kshatriya. Low level riots would still have happened but no mass scale animosity. No Kashmir conflict, no India-Pak wars, no need for massive arms race.
Easy trade with Central Asia. No superpower meddling in our affairs. No need to worry about China.

Justifying partition is rejecting secularism which is the core value of India.
I am not saying that partition should be reversed. Pakistan is a reality which we have accepted. But that does not mean that partition was the right thing to happen.
 
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What are you even saying?
The entire concept of Muslims being another civilization arose because of partition. Without partition, Hindu-Muslim would have been only as different as Brahmin-Kshatriya. Low level riots would still have happened but no mass scale animosity. No Kashmir conflict, no India-Pak wars, no need for massive arms race.
Easy trade with Central Asia. No superpower meddling in our affairs. No need to worry about China.

Justifying partition is rejecting secularism which is the core value of India.
I am not saying that partition should be reversed. Pakistan is a reality which we have accepted. But that does not mean that partition was the right thing to happen.

They are a different civilization.Their worldview is different,their history is different,their heroes are different - arabs,turks and afghans,their value systems are different and their holy land is different.For them the arab culture is the highest pinnacle,what does this have to do with us?We have some genetic,linguistic and cultural affinities but thats not enough to change these fundamental differences.

Partition was the best thing that happened,except the bloodshed.Imagine a united india with 700 million muslims.You wouldn't be able to move anything without a muslim veto.Complete paralysis.Now muslims are divided into 3 ,each one toothless.Only pakistan is a nuisance,but they cant seriously threaten us,being content just to survive,that too at the cost of slowly destroying themselves socially and economically.

Moreover with massive muslim population growth these muslims would have the right to move around,settle and enjoy economic resources of all of india.Everybody knows hindus are way better at economic production than muslims primarily the mercantile castes and communities which dominated even pre partition urban areas of punjab,peshawar and sindh.Why should hindus share their resources and ancient land with a group that fundamentally hates your way of life? its absurd.The pakistani region is an economic periphery with limited resources and power,if muslims had unrestricted access to all india it would be a nightmare.You couldnt regulate that.You would have constant migration of madrasa educated pathans and rural punjabis into our core heartland and biggest cities with more muslims dominated areas and serious problems.

Its more a clash of civilization than of religion.We can coexist with several other religions,but islam is too radical and different,as even europe is finding out.If the hindus and muslims couldn't reconcile after 750 years of living together it wasn't going to happen anyway.Moreover there are wounds of history as the encounter was not a peaceful one,Hindus can't forgive their medieval defeat and muslims can't get over their fall from grace from rulers to their current reduced status starting from 18th century and culminating today with mass global islamophobia,humiliation and weakness.
With partition at one stroke you reversed 1000 years of effort and got the space to consolidate an indic empire which in time will become a great power.Muslims can never challenge us again seriously.It was brutal but necessary,safe exchange of populations should have been done,thats is the one regret.Otherwise patel and menon did a great job,we got pretty much all princely states and even nabbed most of kashmir which the pakistanis would have gotten if jinnah hadn't lost his nerve and patience and sent in the tribal lashkars.
 
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They are a different civilization.Their worldview is different,their history is different,their heroes are different - arabs,turks and afghans,their value systems are different and their holy land is different.For them the arab culture is the highest pinnacle,what does this have to do with us?We have some genetic,linguistic and cultural affinities but thats not enough to change these fundamental differences.
We have Christians, Parsis, some Jews, North east tribals who also call themselves Indian. Many of them have different history, holy land, value systems. The idea of India is to unite all of these with India through a common idea of believing in the identity of 'Indian'. Indian Muslims are also part of the very same identity. BTW - We have many home grown heros which are common to all Indians. Eg. Abdul Kalam, Tipu Sultan, Abul Kalam Azad, Abdul Hamid
If you try to find commonality, you will see. If you dig for differences, you will see differences even within a family.

Partition was the best thing that happened,except the bloodshed.Imagine a united india with 700 million muslims.You wouldn't be able to move anything without a muslim veto.Complete paralysis.Now muslims are divided into 3 ,each one toothless.Only pakistan is a nuisance,but they cant seriously threaten us,being content just to survive,that too at the cost of slowly destroying themselves socially and economically.
You are thinking of Muslims as one monolithic bloc with a single united agenda. Reality is different. Just as Hindus are divided among regions, languages and castes. Muslims have their own divisions. A Keralite Muslim would associate more with a Keralite Hindu rather than a J&K Muslim.
By your words, you are emotionally hurting all those Muslims who are Indian. Also you are hurting our BD muslim friends. Moreover, many Pakistanis are normal people with normal lives. Our enemies are only the terrorists and their sponsors based in Pak, not the ordinary public which happen to be muslims.

Moreover with massive muslim population growth these muslims would have the right to move around,settle and enjoy economic resources of all of india.Everybody knows hindus are way better at economic production than muslims primarily the mercantile castes and communities which dominated even pre partition urban areas of punjab,peshawar and sindh.Why should hindus share their resources and ancient land with a group that fundamentally hates your way of life? its absurd.The pakistani region is an economic periphery with limited resources and power,if muslims had unrestricted access to all india it would be a nightmare.You couldnt regulate that.You would have constant migration of madrasa educated pathans and rural punjabis into our core heartland and biggest cities with more muslims dominated areas and serious problems.
Population growth is the result of illiteracy. As societies become more educated, birth rate falls. Look at BD which has a lower fertility rate today than India.
The problem of extremist thought in madrasa would not have arisen in a united India, because there would not have been a civilizational animosity.

Its more a clash of civilization than of religion.We can coexist with several other religions,but islam is too radical and different,as even europe is finding out.If the hindus and muslims couldn't reconcile after 750 years of living together it wasn't going to happen anyway.Moreover there are wounds of history as the encounter was not a peaceful one,Hindus can't forgive their medieval defeat and muslims can't get over their fall from grace from rulers to their current reduced status starting from 18th century and culminating today with mass global islamophobia,humiliation and weakness.
Till 1910s, our freedom movement had little religious color. Jinnah was already part of Congress. Remember, that Hindus and Muslims together rallied against the religion based partition of Bengal in 1899 and got it reversed in 1905.
Hindus and Muslims fought the 1857 war of independence together against the British.

With partition at one stroke you reversed 1000 years of effort and got the space to consolidate an indic empire which in time will become a great power.Muslims can never challenge us again seriously.It was brutal but necessary,safe exchange of populations should have been done,thats is the one regret.Otherwise patel and menon did a great job,we got pretty much all princely states and even nabbed most of kashmir which the pakistanis would have gotten if jinnah hadn't lost his nerve and patience and sent in the tribal lashkars.
200 million muslims is not a small number. If you think of muslims as some enemy civilization, then be prepared for further break up of India. We have to learn to co-exist peacefully. They are as much Indians as you. United we stand, divided we fall.
 
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You would have constant migration of madrasa educated pathans and rural punjabis into our core heartland and biggest cities with more muslims dominated areas and serious problems.
Your actually very wrong there. If border was opened up more Indians would pour into Pakistan then vice versa. It is we who would get flooded by Biharis, Odishans etc You think our poor would go to India to pull rickshaws? No way. Most Pakistani migration is to Europe, Midle East etc.

Since 1947 more people from India have crossed the border then the other way around. Our cities and towns are less crowded, cleaner and more equitable then your cities. Only Karachi resembles large Indian cities and even that is because of mass paan chewing migrants from India.
 
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Your actually very wrong there. If border was opened up more Indians would pour into Pakistan then vice versa. It is we who would get flooded by Biharis, Odishans etc You think our poor would go to India to pull rickshaws? No way. Most Pakistani migration is to Europe, Midle East etc.

Since 1947 more people from India have crossed the border then the other way around. Our cities and towns are less crowded, cleaner and more equitable then your cities. Only Karachi resembles large Indian cities and even that is because of mass paan chewing migrants from India.


No jokes please. As if millions of poor pakistanis wouldn't flood mumbai,delhi,bangalore if they had the chance in an united india.The economic output of your puny cities are insignificant,only karachi is of any significance and that city is dying.This would have been the nightmare scenario for us in a confederated india.With Deoband HQ in UP,right in the centre of the gangetic heartland with muslim majority bengal and punjab on 2 sides and deccani muslims to the south.Huge muslim population growth and madrasa savages flooding into our cities and making muslim zones backed by serious muslim political muscle .But partition neutralized that and broke that potential force into 3 groups none of which represent a serious threat.Which is why i always say partition was the best thing that happened,minus the deaths.
 
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No jokes please.
Frankly, I think your the joker. Let me clear the mist in your head. It was us who begged to break away from you guys. Not the other way around. I know what India is. There is a old English saying. Cathedrals in the desert. Your cities have small number of filthy rich but rest of your population is poor. The bottom 25% is disgustingly poor. Your cities are filthy hellholes. Karachi is another filthy city - a clone of India.

Jinnah may have had many failings but I want to do puja to him from saving us from billion of semi-naked junglee half Dravidian half Aboriginals. Why would our poor want to go to your filthy cities to pull rickshaws like animals?
 
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