Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[sardar1987]

About FGFA: I don't think it will be available any time before 2022 for India that is also the first production version not the IOC(note that I am talking of Indian version not the single seat pakfa which is the Russian version). Then don't let your hopes up regarding ToT in FGFA. Have anyone ever thought after so many years of licence manufacturing with ToT from Russia why we are not able to develop even a decent trainer let alone Tejas and kaberi. No one will give us their state of the art tech not even Russia, we are only a cash cow to them. Have any one noticed FGFA is a 50:50 JV but what is the 50% workshare India gets in return. India is now purchasing only 144 pakfa not FGFA which will be Su 30mki allover again. IOC date of pakfa for Russian air force is 2018 with the same engine as the prototype. The new engine will arrive in 2020 though date slip may occur. Can you imagine India accepting pakfa with the current engine. So for all purposes FGFA will arrive beyond 2022 for IAF and that also with a licensed assembly as Su 30mki.

U are right in intent but some facts are wrong

1)we are not pursuing any 2 seat version now and are going with single seat version now

2)russian pakfa enters serial production starting 2016 not 2018

Russian air forces will get Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA) in 2016 – InSerbia News

3)Hal is responsible for all this **** hitting the fan

4)do u know the specs of current engine??let me enlighten u

here u go

"The 117 (AL-41F1) is a new 5th generation engine custom built for Russia’s fifth-generation stealth fighter jet PAK-FA according to Sukhoi General Director Mikhail Pogosyan. Mikhail Pogosyan has clarified that claims that fifth-generation fighter allegedly has an old engine are wrong. Such claims are made by people with limited knowledge, he said. Though most parameters of the new 5th Gen Engine remains classified General Director Mikhail Pogosyan provided some information on the new engine, The engine thrust was enlarged by 2.5 tonnes when compared with the AL-31 engine, while the engine weight was cut by 150 kilograms. That allowed the new jet to supercruise i.e. move at a supersonic cruise speed without the use of after burner.[14]

The Saturn Research and Production center made digitally controlled system (FADEC) of Project 117 Engine.The new engine produces 33,000 lbs (147 kN) of thrust in afterburner has a Dry weight of 1420 kilogram and T:W ratio of 10.5:1.[15]

Mikhail Pogosyan further mentioned that this engine (117) meets the client’s (Russian AirForce) requirements. This is not an intermediate product made particularly for test flights. The engine will be installed in production PAK-FA fighter which will be supplied to the Russian Air Force and prospective foreign clients.[16]

Bench testing of a radically new engine (the second stage) for the Russian fifth generation fighter aircraft PAK FA will start in 2014, said the general designer-director of the Scientific and Technical Center "Saturn", Eugeny Marchuk "The engine will be ready in two years, and will begin bench testing then", said Marchuk at the 11th International Conference" Aviation and Space - 2012 ", which opened at the Moscow Aviation Institute. According to him, the new "engine 117" will belong to the "5 +" generation and its characteristics will be superior to the existing foreign counterparts engine for fifth generation aircraft. "This is - a fundamentally new engine, The motor unit weight is 30% less (than the 117C - approx.), Life-cycle costs will by 30% less, and it should be cheaper, "- said Marchuk"

now is pakfa underpowered with this??
i don't think so

If the MMRCA deal is signed before election it should be pursued(though I think its possibillity is becoming gleamer day by day) but after election the next govt. whoever wins is sure to rethink it allover again thereby resulting in more delay. MMRCA was envisioned to sore up the squadron number of IAF but with time its usefulness is decreasing. Raffale is one of the best omnirole fighter out there but with India's economy along with rupee going down it is not wise for India to sign the deal though. As govt. engages in votebank politics with food security bill there will be increased burden on social spending resulting in less money being available for defence. I think India should invest now more in LCA and order it in greater no. to fill the gaps. LCA order should be split by half giving half order to HAL and other half order to a private company which will be selected through a tender.

Yes many of ur concerns are indeed correct but we cannot solely focus on lca as

1)its a point defence fighter and not an airsuperiority or ground attack fighter

2)its not in the league of good fighters as of now

3)even this will not get foc before 2014 end and even thats not a guarentee

 

[he-man]

Rafale is the best of this lot as

1)it has production aesa

2)osf can detect an aircraft from 140 km plus

3)its camera can capture aircraft 50 kn away in clear weather

4)spectra is very good and one of a kind

But looks like our growth will be hit and defence budget cut so rafale deal may suffer

 

[Lostsoldier]

Rafale is the best of this lot as

1)it has production aesa

2)osf can detect an aircraft from 140 km plus

3)its camera can capture aircraft 50 kn away in clear weather

4)spectra is very good and one of a kind

But looks like our growth will be hit and defence budget cut so rafale deal may suffer

Where r u man?

 

[Taygibay]

Small correction, he-man? Being French and a Rafale enthusiast does not make me a blind fanboy and neither should it for you! The OSF detects at roughly 100 km and identifies at half of that. It has since been abandoned and replaced by the IT version. This new iteration uses one common sensor instead of the original 2 although the IR function is still there. This said, there is no reason to believe that range has been significantly improved / augmented.
The AESA is a different story. After hopes of getting a 50% improvement on the 115-130 km range of the PESA RBE2 for a 3 square meters RCS target, operational testing by the DGA / AdA found the range to have doubled!!
So 200-250 km?

But in the more useful passive mode, the OSF IT numbers remain valid so I doubt your quote of 140 km is realistic.
If I get information to support your view, I'll come and post it, promise!

Good day all, Tay.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Rafale is the best of this lot as

1)it has production aesa

2)osf can detect an aircraft from 140 km plus

3)its camera can capture aircraft 50 kn away in clear weather

4)spectra is very good and one of a kind

But looks like our growth will be hit and defence budget cut so rafale deal may suffer

Where are you?

 

[Asian.Century]

In this modern era of Fifth gen fighters,India aqquring huge no. of 4.5 gen fighters which are inferior to the modern trend of aircrafts.Is India making a Blunder By this much large no.It should reduce the orders of this costly aircraft and should use money for further programs?

Or raffale is Good Choice and India should Increase Its no. to 189!!

Peace!!

You have a point. French Rafale which nobody bothered to buy, is a junk 4.5+ fighter in front of 5th Generation planes which China and Pakistan are getting, J-20, J-31 and Pak FC-31 are in a different league altogether to Rafale Jets. Rafale is an inferior jet to J-20/J31/Pak FC-31 anytime. India wasted a lot of time.

 

[vayuu1]

You have a point. French Rafale which nobody bothered to buy, is a junk 4.5+ fighter in front of 5th Generation planes which China and Pakistan are getting, J-20, J-31 and Pak FC-31 are in a different league altogether to Rafale Jets. Rafale is an inferior jet to J-20/J31/Pak FC-31 anytime. India wasted a lot of time.

The thing is by the time j20 -gets operational, pak fa will be ready also j31 is still a long way to go, and it's not that china is not having fourth gen fighter's in there airforce and until and unless pak economy stabilise I don't see them opting for j31 any soon, also don't forget about the amca and fgfa

 

[nang2]

The thing is by the time j20 -gets operational, pak fa will be ready also j31 is still a long way to go, and it's not that china is not having fourth gen fighter's in there airforce and until and unless pak economy stabilise I don't see them opting for j31 any soon, also don't forget about the amca and fgfa

it is fun to read some of the old posts.