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Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

well u can belevewhat you want my kind sir but indians have a habit of increasing the order any way we too have 350 4+ gen jets like SU 30 MKI , M2k , M29 and soon FGFA will start coming dont worry about us we can take care of chinese agression and your PAF aswell

owr economy is not based on IMF & US AID or as P.Hoodbhoy says toliye & chaddaren we can sustain it think about yourself
why does Pakistan has to come every where, are u people so obsessed with us?

PAF cant do anything against much superior IAF..Indians should be worried about growing Chinese might rather than obsessing about 9 times smaller country
 
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Not sure on that, haven't heard any such thing ever in media, perhaps may be an issue.



:tup:
Yup thats the moot point of whole issue and secondly you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Man pakfa was initially flying with su-35 engines and its gonna trickle down soon enough,thats my argument
rafale's engines are no match for product 117 s,but main issue is that su-35(even upgraded) will cost atleast 20 million dollars less than rafale(guess) and money saved may be pumped into

1)kaveri engine

2)lca

3)developing indivisual avionics

why does Pakistan has to come every where, are u people so obsessed with us?

PAF cant do anything against much superior IAF..Indians should be worried about growing Chinese might rather than obsessing about 9 times smaller country

Are we commenting on ur section?

no

who came here??

you
 
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why does Pakistan has to come every where, are u people so obsessed with us?

PAF cant do anything against much superior IAF..Indians should be worried about growing Chinese might rather than obsessing about 9 times smaller country

well because pakistan has a habit of creating trouble when ever we are moving towards peace any way thats not the point

point is we have enof to engage both PLAAF & PAF simontaneousli and once FGFA comes it will onli get better for the time bieng i will go for 100 SU35 & 80 F16 of the latest Block & latest wepons and will try to speedup the LCA program rather to waste 20 Billion dollars on rafale
 
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Hahaaaha its more of what you wish than the facts :smokin:

What i wish!!!i am an indian like u and i don't wish tot??

right!!!

DUDE TOT is just a marketing word.....give me one example of tot being helpful as we have full tot even in su-30 deal??

Do we make pesa radar like su-30 bars?? no

engine-no

avionics-no

So what exactly did we get

ANSWER-SCREWDRIVERS TO SCREW OURSELVES
 
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- Basic thing you forget, Russian planes are lower in cost per piece but their operating and life cycle cost is huge.

- RCS reduction produce nothing much for 4/4.5 gen planes. If your platform uses weapons on external hard points your platform no matter how much composites it use , glow like christmas tree on radar. So considering the two planes the smaller one will be less visible on radar than the bigger one with more load.

- and the object of MMRCA is different. If IAF wanted bigger plan they would simply have bought more licences for MKIs. But they want a medium category plane

Ok first of all we are talking of new stuff like su-35

1)its rcs is 2-3 m2 after deep modernization

2)its utilises new product 117s engines and not the older 1980's al-31f

Sukhoi Tribute: Sukhoi Su-35BM/T-10BM

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/Su-35/

http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/products/su-35/index.wbp
http://www.knaapo.ru/media/eng/about/production/military/su-35/su-35_buklet_eng.pdf
 
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Oh yeah best!!!

What about f-18,f-15 se?? what about f-35??

IAF is foolish ,thats what it is.....examples

1)no induction of lca(constant change of requirements)

2)upgradation of mirage 2000(damn costly)

And man we are debating a scenario where we have su-35 with pakfa aesa somewhere in 2015 whereas we are gonna get rafale only in 2018(if at all)

1)its aesa is damn too small

2)spectra is good but no one actually knows how good

Save the money from buying su-35 over rafale and pump that into lca program

Another fool.

When was F15 on offer? what is the class of F15? F35?? Where is it? Is it on offer? no? Is it in service?? no

What was amt of Tot offered for F18? What is the operating cost of F18? Do you know why F18 lost the malaysian deal? No, because if u did, you wouldn't be asking this.

IAF is foolish, really? Tell me what do you know about mmrca competition in first place? Nothing, nada.

LCA project, you really want to go into that? Have you even read anything about the project? LCA was as much as ADA's fault as anything else.

About mirage you have an other alternative in mind?

Who told you you are going to get Rafale in 2018? Any source or just rubbish

Again with the crap of Su35? Do you even understand what medium means?

You haven't answered anything i wrote in the previous post, but you have been cooking new theories by youself. Idiots. Joining Date august 2013, as i expected. You kids just still have to lie about your age to get into **** websites, and you sit there acting like experts on everything.
 
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well because pakistan has a habit of creating trouble when ever we are moving towards peace any way thats not the point

point is we have enof to engage both PLAAF & PAF simontaneousli and once FGFA comes it will onli get better for the time bieng i will go for 100 SU35 & 80 F16 of the latest Block & latest wepons and will try to speedup the LCA program rather to waste 20 Billion dollars on rafale

well sir dont get brain washed by your media..both countries had their fare share of provoking each other..india even went on for full war without provocation just take advantage of civil war in 1971..

still it rather surprise me that India think she can counter over 600+ J-11/J-10s with around 200 su30s and a few mig29s and mirages that havent been upgraded to carry decent BVR yet

india should have massively procured LCAs and increased it su 30.
in addition it should have increased the fifth gen programe..
operatiing too many types will be costly in long term with less effective
 
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well but what is the use of rafale when we can have the same bang for the money or even more with F16-SU 35 combo they both are chaeper to maintain and have very potent wepon suite aswell which will onli get more lethal after we have americans with us and we can put US wepons on owr LCA & MKI/SU 35 tell me wont we save huge ammounts on maintanence if we go for SU 35 + we are already in deal with russians for 250 FGFA

why on earth should we go for the rafale then cause french will never give the TOT to us and will always put spanners in the wheel deal is not even signed and they are already making a scene owt of HAL issue when it was basic requirement of the deal i say we should never go for rafale look at scorpene deal see how they f***** us up in name of TOT (why should & why willa counrty ever give its secrets for just a deal they will never & niether will they help us with LCA look at Kaveri -SCEMA deal)

I don't remember correctly (perhaps the then ACM Fali Nariman) when asked about F-16 and F-18 said something interesting. He observed that F-16 and F-18 though superb fighters are essentially 1980s technology and almost at the end of their development story with US moving towards Gen V fighters. So we can't expect much in future with these fighters to match with what PLAAF will bring to fore. India is investing for next 25-30 years and perhaps doesn't see F-16/18 as a match to Chinese hardware down the line. Grippen and Mig 35 didn't appeal owing to US components and Mig 35 being nothing new other than ASEA and thrust vectoring.
Secondly Rafale and Typhoon who made the cut are relatively new technologies and my guess is French reliability (with machines and international relations) won them the deal.

We discussed long back on some thread where some members pointed that if ToT goes to the plan, this gigantic deal will develop the Indian Aerospace industry big time, so may be it is an investment we are makig into the future.

Finally Su 35 is a mean machine (no doubts) but don't you feel having them would be redundant (with MKIs around) and FGFA likely to come in a decades time.
As a casual observer, i could see before hand Mig 35 not having a chance simply because IAF wants desperately to move from Russia only hardware even if it means paying premium price.

PS:
hope u get my point SIR

I'm one amongst you, so maybe we can do away with the word.:cheers:
 
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Another fool.

When was F15 on offer? what is the class of F15? F35?? Where is it? Is it on offer? no? Is it in service?? no

What was amt of Tot offered for F18? What is the operating cost of F18? Do you know why F18 lost the malaysian deal? No, because if u did, you wouldn't be asking this.

IAF is foolish, really? Tell me what do you know about mmrca competition in first place? Nothing, nada.

LCA project, you really want to go into that? Have you even read anything about the project? LCA was as much as ADA's fault as anything else.

About mirage you have an other alternative in mind?

Who told you you are going to get Rafale in 2018? Any source or just rubbish

Again with the crap of Su35? Do you even understand what medium means?

You haven't answered anything i wrote in the previous post, but you have been cooking new theories by youself. Idiots. Joining Data august 2013, as i expected. You kids just still have to lie about your age to get into **** websites, and you sit there acting like experts on everything.

READ WHAT I PROVIDED IN LINKS.................and get over it,,,,,su-35 as it is is way better than su-30

no comparison here

READ WHAT I PROVIDED IN LINKS.................and get over it,,,,,su-35 as it is is way better than su-30

no comparison here
Are u a child

Contract clearly states that rafale will start delivery after 36 months.The contract will be signed after elections,,,,,ie in 2014

SO THE TIMEFRAME OF DELIVERY IS 2017-18 AT THE EARLIEST DUDE
 
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I don't remember correctly (perhaps the then ACM Fali Nariman) when asked about F-16 and F-18 said something interesting. He observed that F-16 and F-18 though superb fighters are essentially 1980s technology and almost at the end of their development story with US moving towards Gen V fighters. So we can't expect much in future with these fighters to match with what PLAAF will bring to fore. India is investing for next 25-30 years perhaps and perhaps doesn't see F-16/18 as a match to Chinese hardware down the line. Grippen and Mig 35 didn't appeal owing to US components and Mig 35 being nothing new other than ASEA and thrust vectoring.
Secondly Rafale and Typhoon who made the cut are relatively new technologies and my guess is French reliability (with machines and international relations) won them the deal.

We discussed long back on some thread where some members pointed that if ToT goes to the plan, this gigantic deal will develop the Indian Aerospace industry big time, so may be it is an investment we are makig into the future.

Finally Su 35 is a mean machine (no doubts) but don't you feel having them would be redundant (with MKIs around) and FGFA likely to come in a decades time.
As a casual observer, i could see before hand Mig 35 not having a chance simply because IAF wants desperately to move from Russia only hardware even if it means paying premium price.

PS:

I'm one amongst you, so maybe we can do away with the word.:cheers:

aS USUAL everyone is writing baseless things without giving any links

1)americans have deeply modernized their f-15 to f-15 se that has a 3rd generation aesa with fully functional das system

2)very stealthy

3)very very good air superiority fighter in air to air dominance

u can look for info yourself
 
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READ WHAT I PROVIDED IN LINKS.................and get over it,,,,,su-35 as it is is way better than su-30

no comparison here


Are u a child

Contract clearly states that rafale will start delivery after 36 months.The contract will be signed after elections,,,,,ie in 2014

SO THE TIMEFRAME OF DELIVERY IS 2017-18 AT THE EARLIEST DUDE

The point is you are a complete idiot and you know it. That is why you are knowingly dodging my questions.

About delivery. the thing is mrca winner was announced in Jan 2012. so the contract was supposed to by 2012 itself and delivery by 2015. So it was the correct decision at that point of time. but you can't get little thing in your brain, and you want to know the reason for this, you have no brain.

I repeat again to all new members. The issues you are raising here have all been discussed to death on this forum already. go on those threads and read them instead of coming here and wanking like idiots.
 
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aS USUAL everyone is writing baseless things without giving any links

1)americans have deeply modernized their f-15 to f-15 se that has a 3rd generation aesa with fully functional das system

2)very stealthy

3)very very good air superiority fighter in air to air dominance

u can look for info yourself

I agree with u rafale deal was good 2 years ago when rupee was stable and growth was 8%

Now scenario has changed man

just read this........and u will know the mistake india is making

R&D in Defence neglected | Business Line

The point is you are a complete idiot and you know it. That is why you are knowingly dodging my questions.

About delivery. the thing is mrca winner was announced in Jan 2012. so the contract was supposed to by 2012 itself and delivery by 2015. So it was the correct decision at that point of time. but you can't get little thing in your brain, and you want to know the reason for this, you have no brain.

I repeat again to all new members. The issues you are raising here have all been discussed to death on this forum already. go on those threads and read them instead of coming here and wanking like idiots.

And has the contract been signed?????

no

so delivery timeline???pls tell me i was wrong about 2017-18??

guess what?i was right

The point is you are a complete idiot and you know it. That is why you are knowingly dodging my questions.

About delivery. the thing is mrca winner was announced in Jan 2012. so the contract was supposed to by 2012 itself and delivery by 2015. So it was the correct decision at that point of time. but you can't get little thing in your brain, and you want to know the reason for this, you have no brain.

I repeat again to all new members. The issues you are raising here have all been discussed to death on this forum already. go on those threads and read them instead of coming here and wanking like idiots.

I have provided links for all my claims and whats ur problem?

if u don't wanna discuss then don't type

why do u keep on commenting on my brain when u yourself know i am only saying the truth regarding delivery date??
 
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I agree with u rafale deal was good 2 years ago when rupee was stable and growth was 8%

Now scenario has changed man

just read this........and u will know the mistake india is making

R&D in Defence neglected | Business Line



And has the contract been signed?????

no

so delivery timeline???pls tell me i was wrong about 2017-18??

guess what?i was right



I have provided links for all my claims and whats ur problem?

if u don't wanna discuss then don't type

why do u keep on commenting on my brain when u yourself know i am only saying the truth regarding delivery date??

what truth? It was a correct decision at that point.

Govt failed to sign the contract in time so now you want to undo years to work in selecting the mrca winner and just go for su35 to satisfy your ego?

Where did IAF ever say they need Su35? It wasn't even a part of mmrca competition, can't you understand that? IAF never wanted su35, they will never go for it just because you want them to

And you think you will get su35 before 2018? Do you know su35 production line is booked for how long? No, obviously, it is very clear that you have zero knowledge. I have ample reasons to comment on your brain. the latest one is that you don't even know how to quote properly.
 
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This is not 2012 dude............we have delayed and we are gonna delay again,look at the fiscal position??

Where will the money to run nation come from.........defence budget cut(useless congress will look to it)

care to read this without abusing me??
India

what truth? It was a correct decision at that point.

Govt failed to sign the contract in time so now you want to undo years to work in selecting the mrca winner and just go for su35 to satisfy your ego?

Where did IAF ever say they need Su35? It wasn't even a part of mmrca competition, can't you understand that? IAF never wanted su35, they will never go for it just because you want them to

And you think you will get su35 before 2018? Do you know su35 production line is booked for how long? No, obviously, it is very clear that you have zero knowledge. I have ample reasons to comment on your brain. the latest one is that you don't even know how to quote properly.

Yes u are right here.....su-35 production won't start till 2018 or so,,,,for india(conceded)

But you have no answer to me when i have provided links that su-35 is way superior to su-30 and rafale is damn expensive at the moment,2 years ago economy was fine


now------NO
 
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