Is conversion necessary for social work, asks Rajnath

[Nicky G]

Social work is just the cover, targeting vulnerable and converting souls is the real aim. No one pumps money to merely help people without expecting returns, religious institutions perhaps least of all.

Anyone who does not know that is a fool, willfully or otherwise. Those who do not acknowledge that are either liberals or those who benefit from these developments.

 

[itachiii]

If conversions were really happening at such a massive scale then someone just tell me why is Christian population is still around 2.2% whereas Muslims as well as Hindus recorded growth?

It is mostly low caste hindus who convert to christianity, and they dnt change there religion oficially as it would effect there reservation status.. most of them will even have there hindu names.. !!

 

[Ragnar]

Everything comes with a price. The missionaries have done their work in India providing some food and money in return for conversion- then left the spot. You can spot many of these forlorn, desperately poor villages throughout India each with a sad looking church.Religion is tool of manipulation and the opium of the masses.

 

[The_Showstopper]

how is a personal choice defined? factors like greed lust
, fear, surrounding which changes the thinking of a human and hence changes the personal choice of human should be kept in mind or not? if no then ghar waapsi is right.. if yes then missionary conversions are also wrong..

Let the people decide what they want, why ban? Well "Ghar Wapsi" is also ok if it is not done under intimidation or force.... Let everyone have a free playing field...

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OK Mr Rajnath you seem to make a lot of noise with no real work, so I just have a question for you... Is singing Vande Mataram necessary to prove one's patriotism?

 

[magudi]

Let the people decide what they want, why ban? Well "Ghar Wapsi" is also ok if it is not done under intimidation or force.... Let everyone have a free playing field...

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OK Mr Rajnath you seem to make a lot of noise with no real work, so I just have a question for you... Is singing Vande Mataram necessary to prove one's patriotism?

Level playing field is what we're asking for. It's an undisputed fact that missionaries lure people by various means - others should also have the same coercion privileges whether it be hindus or Muslims.

If we want to call ourselves secular people should have free will to choose whichever religion they want or choose none at all but if there's no level playing field ban proselytization all together.

Who said there's no real work? This was in news recently
Operation Smile: Rajnath Singh's push helps recover 2500 missing children - timesofindia-economictimes

Your 'lot of noise' barb is unwarranted - he was talking at 'state minorities commission' and with all conversion controversy going on wasn't he supposed to speak about it? What's wrong with it? He called for a nation wide debate, he didn't say we're going to ban it.

But pardon me, when did he say anything about vande mataram? If he did say that somewhere else then its utter stupidity nobody needs to prove his patriotism to anyone else let alone by singing vande mataram.

 

[gau8av]

Is singing Vande Mataram necessary to prove one's patriotism?

no, but not singing because religion>state and making a huge issue is just stupid, just say those few words and get on with it... get an education, you idiots... some shite just makes me think that most muslims are only 1degree separated from ISIS.. murder and killings aside, that ultra primitive 'cant think for yourself apart from some stupid 1500 year old book with rules set by god himself and set in stone forever'

and before I get yet another -ve for bigotry, the fukin' 'hindu' mahasabha et all are just as stupid and regressive, and so are the corporate missionary scum whose only concern in annual conversion numbers reporting to the vatican..

we have all forgotten our real heritage here, and no, it's not time traveling mutants on ancient spaceships.

sometimes I seriously wonder what is worse, religion or 'nationalism' ... the way things are going, we can never hope to catch up with China, we're falling into the same shitty fake religion trap pakistan is in as the gap between us and them increases..

I don't blame Modi or the BJP, imo the lefties are much worse.. so hindu, muslim, sikh or issai...the fault is our collective sheer stupidity that only promotes ladai ladai

 

[magudi]

no, but not singing because religion>state and making a huge issue is just stupid, just say those few words and get on with it... get an education, you idiots... some shite just makes me think that most muslims are only 1degree separated from ISIS.. murder and killings aside, that ultra primitive 'cant think for yourself apart from some stupid 1500 year old book with rules set by god himself and set in stone forever'

and before I get yet another -ve for bigotry, the fukin' 'hindu' mahasabha et all are just as stupid and regressive, and so are the corporate missionary scum whose only concern in annual conversion numbers reporting to the vatican..

we have all forgotten our real heritage here, and no, it's not time traveling mutants on ancient spaceships.

sometimes I seriously wonder what is worse, religion or 'nationalism' ... the way things are going, we can never hope to catch up with China, we're falling into the same shitty fake religion trap pakistan is in as the gap between us and them increases..

I don't blame Modi or the BJP, imo the lefties are much worse.. so hindu, muslim, sikh or issai...the fault is our collective sheer stupidity that only promotes ladai ladai

Disagree there bhai! Modi has to answer no matter what

 

[gau8av]

Disagree there bhai! Modi has to answer no matter what

yup, we should behead him in the name of god for that pogrom in Gujarat he personally conceived and executed

 

[Indian_Devil]

Let the people decide what they want, why ban? Well "Ghar Wapsi" is also ok if it is not done under intimidation or force.... Let everyone have a free playing field...

-------------------------------------------------------------
OK Mr Rajnath you seem to make a lot of noise with no real work, so I just have a question for you... Is singing Vande Mataram necessary to prove one's patriotism?

-------------------------------------------------------------
OK Mr Rajnath you seem to make a lot of noise with no real work, so I just have a question for you... Is singing Vande Mataram necessary to prove one's patriotism?

you seem to make a lot of noise, so i just have a question for you... wearing cross and accepting jesus as saviour will save me from my all sins but if i do not accept christianity i will be the greatest sinner and rott in hell... why is so? doesn't that makes the god a racist??

 

[The_Showstopper]

Level playing field is what we're asking for. It's an undisputed fact that missionaries lure people by various means - others should also have the same coercion privileges whether it be hindus or Muslims.

Luring, coercion... You can call it anything, but if person a willfully converting with out any physical intimidation or force, then no one should have a problem...

If we want to call ourselves secular people should have free will to choose whichever religion they want or choose none at all but if there's no level playing field ban proselytization all together.

So who get's to decide what is level playing field? Is there anything which is stopping Hindus from propagating their religion?

Who said there's no real work? This was in news recently
Operation Smile: Rajnath Singh's push helps recover 2500 missing children - timesofindia-economictimes

Your 'lot of noise' barb is unwarranted - he was talking at 'state minorities commission' and with all conversion controversy going on wasn't he supposed to speak about it? What's wrong with it? He called for a nation wide debate, he didn't say we're going to ban it.

OK so this is what he was able to conjure in almost a year.... He off late has been making a lot of statements which are quite unnecessary and which have been discussed right here on PDF hence my dig at him...

But pardon me, when did he say anything about vande mataram? If he did say that somewhere else then its utter stupidity nobody needs to prove his patriotism to anyone else let alone by singing vande mataram.

Well he didn't say anything with regards to that but when he asked the question in OP, he was representing those who are concerned about conversions, so I just wanted to know his view on singing Vande mataram... Anyways its good to know your views...

no, but not singing because religion>state and making a huge issue is just stupid, just say those few words and get on with it... get an education, you idiots... some shite just makes me think that most muslims are only 1degree separated from ISIS.. murder and killings aside, that ultra primitive 'cant think for yourself apart from some stupid 1500 year old book with rules set by god himself and set in stone forever'

and before I get yet another -ve for bigotry, the fukin' 'hindu' mahasabha et all are just as stupid and regressive, and so are the corporate missionary scum whose only concern in annual conversion numbers reporting to the vatican..

we have all forgotten our real heritage here, and no, it's not time traveling mutants on ancient spaceships.

sometimes I seriously wonder what is worse, religion or 'nationalism' ... the way things are going, we can never hope to catch up with China, we're falling into the same shitty fake religion trap pakistan is in as the gap between us and them increases..

I don't blame Modi or the BJP, imo the lefties are much worse.. so hindu, muslim, sikh or issai...the fault is our collective sheer stupidity that only promotes ladai ladai

That's your POV... And it is the hindutva groups who make a fuss about it. If some don't sing, its their choice so ignore them, why are they trying to shove it up at other's throats...

you seem to make a lot of noise, so i just have a question for you... wearing cross and accepting jesus as saviour will save me from my all sins but if i do not accept christianity i will be the greatest sinner and rott in hell... why is so? doesn't that makes the god a racist??

That's their perception, if you don't believe in it, why bother?

 

[Indian_Devil]

That's their perception, if you don't believe in it, why bother?

for us it is easy to say these things but for those poor lads this is a type of threatening ... isn't a mental threatining a crime?

 

[The_Showstopper]

for us it is easy to say these things but for those poor lads this is a type of threatening ... isn't a mental threatining a crime?

Educate those poor lads so that they can make an informed choice after reasoning...

 

[Indian_Devil]

Educate those poor lads so that they can make an informed choice after reasoning...

so finally you agreed that the missionaries threaten poor and uneducated farmers to convert them??? wow ... that must be quite adventurous for the people blonging to the religion with the largest number of followers....

 

[The_Showstopper]

so finally you agreed that the missionaries threaten poor and uneducated farmers to convert them??? wow ... that must be quite adventurous for the people blonging to the religion with the largest number of followers....

When did I agree to that? I asked you to educate them about their own religion and then let them decide afterward comparing. If christian missionaries are doing their work without physical intimidating anyone then you can propagate your religion as they do... Why cry foul over it?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

When did I agree to that? I asked you to educate them about their own religion and then let them decide afterward comparing. If christian missionaries are doing their work without physical intimidating anyone then you can propagate your religion as they do... Why cry foul over it?

Because it is not allowed. Conversion by subterfuge even by peaceful ways is an act of fraud and carries a penalty. Since 1956.
Niyogi Committee Report on Christian Missionary Activities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why is this even an issue ?

People convert for all sorts of reasons; monetary incentives, the promise of a better future, philosophical consonance with a belief system or emotional fulfillment in believing in something - I don't think that a State - any state - ought to concern herself with this too much otherwise it may set a dangerous precedent by allowing a given State to appropriate greater rights for herself in the future by taking further rights from the 'individual' and giving it to the 'society' !

Religion will always be part and parcel of a religious society and it would be unreasonable to expect those in power to have a completely unbiased view of things and be emotionally detached from the sensibilities and sensitivities of their belief systems and those of the society as a whole, when governing. But I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that even when allowing religion or any belief out there (even if it be purely secular) to influence governance, a liberal and not the conservative approach ought to be taken which accommodates various view points and at the very least tries to conform to the golden principle of not doing to others what one does not wish to be done to oneself, most of the time if conforming to it all of the time would be impossible.

I think in Pakistan we made the same mistake by allowing the Orthodoxy a greater say in whatever religious imprint they wanted to have over governance and legislation while at the same time ignoring the Progressive elements from the same religious circles because the former was exponentially more vocal and organized than the latter. Ironically enough most of these Orthodox elements like the Majlis-i-Ahrar who became the champions of an Islamic State - as they envisioned it to be in their parochial view - were ferociously against the creation of Pakistan to begin with.

Religion (like anything else) should have a positive and inclusive impression on a State's culture and values. If it starts having an exclusive, reactionary and divisive effect you end with the states that Pakistan and India find themselves. No wonder as per PEW social hostility involving religion index we have found ourselves in the top 10 most socially hostile states with respect to religion for the past decade.

What do you think @scorpionx ?

Incentivizing Conversion to Christianity(for example) in India is illegal.