Splurgenxs
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THis is sick...
Is China harvesting organs from ethnic minorities?
- Thread starter StormShadow
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NO, wow, did u not read both article?
Chinese government do not sell organs nor try to make a profit from it.
it's not a communication gap, it just your thick skull couldn't believe that in China, people consent to organ donation, and death-roll inmates may want to do a bit good before they pay for their crimes. It's my fault really, try to reason with unreasonable.
OrionHunter
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untitled
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By truth you mean here is Indian POV / Propaganda ?
Sonyuke_Songpaisan
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your company? I am smiling when I saw the news that one country begged to join EU but was rejected every time because it's made up of terrorists.
TrMhMt
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Begged? Terrorist? You are extremely ignorant stupid a moron !!! so i wont argue anymore.
Kyusuibu Honbu
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From a civilized moral world perspective , this is barbaric.
But from a pragmatic point of view , i don't see anything wrong with it . Criminals cause trouble to the society , then why not their body parts be of benefit for the society?
However selectively channeling these organs to CPC officials ,rather citizens as a whole , is bound to have a backlash.
But from a pragmatic point of view , i don't see anything wrong with it . Criminals cause trouble to the society , then why not their body parts be of benefit for the society?
However selectively channeling these organs to CPC officials ,rather citizens as a whole , is bound to have a backlash.
Sonyuke_Songpaisan
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Dont be beggar of the EU. Be yourseves.
Activist Harry Wu challenges organ harvesting claims. By Paul Mooney. August 9, 2006.
A prominent Chinese human rights activist in the US has challenged Falun Gong claims that mainland hospitals have harvested organs from thousands of its members.
Harry Wu challenged a report in the Falun Gong newspaper Epoch Times in March that claimed that 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners had been sent to a secret concentration camp in the Sujiatun district of Shenyang, Liaoning, and that "three-fourths had their hearts, kidneys, corneas and skin extracted before they died". Mr Wu is head of the China Information Centre in the US and a veteran of 19 years in the Chinese gulag.
Falun Gong - banned in 1999 as an "evil cult" - claimed the organs were sold for large sums of money to Chinese and foreigners in need of transplants.
Mr Wu, who has spent 15 years gathering evidence on the harvesting of organs from executed Chinese prisoners, said the information was based on the testimony of two witnesses, neither of whom had first-hand information. He believed the reports were fabricated.
Mr Wu, who was on friendly terms with the Falun Gong until he challenged its claims, said he asked to interview the witnesses, but was refused permission by Falun Gong officials. "I tried several times to see the witnesses, but they said no," he said. "Even today, I don't know their names."
Mr Wu said he sent his own investigators to two prisons in the area mentioned by the Falun Gong, observing the institutions from the outside and interviewing people coming out of the prison and local residents.
He said he discovered there were Falun Gong practitioners being held in the prisons. But his team could not locate any trace of the concentration camp or corroborate the claims of forced organ removals.
Investigators also visited two hospitals in the area, but again found no evidence.
US officials from the embassy in Beijing and the consulate in Shenyang also visited the area twice in April, but came up empty handed.
"US representatives have found no evidence to support allegations that a site in northeast China has been used as a concentration camp to jail Falun Gong practitioners and harvest their organs," the US State Department said in April.
Mr Wu questioned the feasibility of the claims. He said a total of 4,500 victims "would mean 1,500 persons per year, or at least 120 persons per month whose organs were removed".
"This would be impossible to accomplish in an environment such as Sujiatun," he said. "China takes organs from many executed prisoners every year, but to kill 4,000 or 5,000 people, I don't think so. Professional doctors would not do this." He also cast doubt on claims that a doctor removed corneas from 2,000 followers in less than two years.
David Matas, an international human rights lawyer who co-authored an independent report which supports the Falun Gong claims, countered Mr Wu's argument that it would be impossible to remove the corneas from 2,000 people in such a short time span.
"The process of removing the eyes takes only 20 minutes," he said, adding that one surgeon could remove the corneas from 2,000 bodies in just 83 days.
He said further that he and co-author David Kilgour had obtained more information since their first report came out last month that would be incorporated into a new report next month.
=========================================================
Chinese dissident doubts organ harvest claim. By Rowan Callick. August 14, 2006.
HARRY Wu, one of the most respected Chinese dissident leaders, has cast crucial doubt on Falun Gong claims that body parts have been extracted from 6000 followers of the sect at a secret concentration camp in northeast China. In response, Falun Gong has branded Mr Wu, who spent 19 years in Chinese labour camps, a "butcher" and a "senior-level Chinese Communist spy".
The religious sect's organ transplant claims have become a pivotal part of its fierce campaign against the Chinese Government, which has outlawed the group since 1999.
Australian Foreign Affairs Department deputy secretary David Ritchie said after the annual Australia-China human rights dialogue in Canberra last month that Australia had raised the issue of organs being removed from people executed in China. Mr Ritchie, leader of the Australian team at the talks, said about the extractions claim: "We think the evidence is not necessarily there, it's still open - which is one of the reasons why we raised the issue; we don't know one way or the other."
Since then, for the first time in four years, the federal Government has stopped banning the use of large banners by Falun Gong demonstrators outside the Chinese embassy in Canberra.
The horrific Falun Gong claims were prominently presented by a newspaper associated with the group, Epoch Times, which on March 10 said there was a "secret Nazi-style concentration camp at Sujiatun", a suburb of Shenyang, capital of Liaoning province. The paper said 6000 Falun Gong followers had been sent to the camp since 2001, and that three-quarters of them had had their hearts, kidneys, corneas and skin extracted, after which the remains of their bodies were incinerated.
According to Amnesty International, China killed at least 1770 of the 2184 people executed worldwide last year. But it could obtain no proof of more executions than that.
Falun Gong claimed its investigation "verified that the organs were extracted from people who were still alive". The body parts had become the principal source of China's thriving transplant market, its report said. The grim story has been raised internationally by two prominent Canadian human rights activists, former parliamentarian David Kilgour and lawyer David Matas, who are not practitioners of Falun Gong.
They published a report on the issue last month after research on behalf of a Falun Gong support group, the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of the Falun Gong in China. They say in their report: "We would like to pursue further research before we come to any firm conclusions. But based on what we now know, we have come to the regrettable conclusion that the allegations are true. "We believe that there has been and continues today to be large-scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners for sale at high prices, sometimes to foreigners who normally face long waits for voluntary donations of such organs in their home countries."
Mr Kilgour and Mr Matas say that of 60,000 transplants registered by the China Medical Organ Transplant Association from 2000-05, just 18,500 sources could be identified.
But the Canadians did not visit China, and thus relied on second-hand evidence.
Mr Wu, 69, was first arrested in 1956 for criticising the Communist Party during the feigned period of liberalisation after Mao Zedong said "let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend".
From 1960, Mr Wu was sent as a "counter-revolutionary rightist" to 12 different labour camps (laogai), where he was beaten, tortured and starved.
Earlier this year, Mr Wu's US-based Laogai Research Foundation spent six months investigating how the Huaxi Hospital in Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan province, was extracting organs for transplants from executed prisoners.
The foundation and Falun Gong discussed further co-operative investigations. But then the Falun Gong media published its shocking claims about the Sujiatun "concentration camp". Mr Wu said: "After reading the report carefully, I felt the (indirect testimony of) two witnesses cited was unreliable, and that this story might be fabricated."
He tried to contact Falun Gong's US spokesperson Zhang Erping about the issue, but did not get a reply. He then arranged for trusted contacts inside China to visit the Sujiatun area, where they stayed for more than three weeks. Their inspections included all the potential sites for forced extractions, including two military barracks, a hospital that specialises in treatment for blood clots and the Kongjiashan prison.
Mr Wu, who received photographs and written reports on each visit, said: "None of the investigations revealed any trace of the concentration camp."
"For more than 20 years, the Chinese Government has extracted large numbers of organs from death-sentence prisoners," Mr Wu said. "But a scale of 4500 live organ extractions is impossible in theory and unfeasible in practice."
Falun Gong said four months ago: "The world cannot wait until all the evidence becomes available, because the crimes will worsen. Even if there is a 1 per cent probability this is true, it is worth the whole world carefully and fully investigating."
Well now that we've got the truth out of the way, what's the going rate for a kidney in India?
A prominent Chinese human rights activist in the US has challenged Falun Gong claims that mainland hospitals have harvested organs from thousands of its members.
Harry Wu challenged a report in the Falun Gong newspaper Epoch Times in March that claimed that 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners had been sent to a secret concentration camp in the Sujiatun district of Shenyang, Liaoning, and that "three-fourths had their hearts, kidneys, corneas and skin extracted before they died". Mr Wu is head of the China Information Centre in the US and a veteran of 19 years in the Chinese gulag.
Falun Gong - banned in 1999 as an "evil cult" - claimed the organs were sold for large sums of money to Chinese and foreigners in need of transplants.
Mr Wu, who has spent 15 years gathering evidence on the harvesting of organs from executed Chinese prisoners, said the information was based on the testimony of two witnesses, neither of whom had first-hand information. He believed the reports were fabricated.
Mr Wu, who was on friendly terms with the Falun Gong until he challenged its claims, said he asked to interview the witnesses, but was refused permission by Falun Gong officials. "I tried several times to see the witnesses, but they said no," he said. "Even today, I don't know their names."
Mr Wu said he sent his own investigators to two prisons in the area mentioned by the Falun Gong, observing the institutions from the outside and interviewing people coming out of the prison and local residents.
He said he discovered there were Falun Gong practitioners being held in the prisons. But his team could not locate any trace of the concentration camp or corroborate the claims of forced organ removals.
Investigators also visited two hospitals in the area, but again found no evidence.
US officials from the embassy in Beijing and the consulate in Shenyang also visited the area twice in April, but came up empty handed.
"US representatives have found no evidence to support allegations that a site in northeast China has been used as a concentration camp to jail Falun Gong practitioners and harvest their organs," the US State Department said in April.
Mr Wu questioned the feasibility of the claims. He said a total of 4,500 victims "would mean 1,500 persons per year, or at least 120 persons per month whose organs were removed".
"This would be impossible to accomplish in an environment such as Sujiatun," he said. "China takes organs from many executed prisoners every year, but to kill 4,000 or 5,000 people, I don't think so. Professional doctors would not do this." He also cast doubt on claims that a doctor removed corneas from 2,000 followers in less than two years.
David Matas, an international human rights lawyer who co-authored an independent report which supports the Falun Gong claims, countered Mr Wu's argument that it would be impossible to remove the corneas from 2,000 people in such a short time span.
"The process of removing the eyes takes only 20 minutes," he said, adding that one surgeon could remove the corneas from 2,000 bodies in just 83 days.
He said further that he and co-author David Kilgour had obtained more information since their first report came out last month that would be incorporated into a new report next month.
=========================================================
Chinese dissident doubts organ harvest claim. By Rowan Callick. August 14, 2006.
HARRY Wu, one of the most respected Chinese dissident leaders, has cast crucial doubt on Falun Gong claims that body parts have been extracted from 6000 followers of the sect at a secret concentration camp in northeast China. In response, Falun Gong has branded Mr Wu, who spent 19 years in Chinese labour camps, a "butcher" and a "senior-level Chinese Communist spy".
The religious sect's organ transplant claims have become a pivotal part of its fierce campaign against the Chinese Government, which has outlawed the group since 1999.
Australian Foreign Affairs Department deputy secretary David Ritchie said after the annual Australia-China human rights dialogue in Canberra last month that Australia had raised the issue of organs being removed from people executed in China. Mr Ritchie, leader of the Australian team at the talks, said about the extractions claim: "We think the evidence is not necessarily there, it's still open - which is one of the reasons why we raised the issue; we don't know one way or the other."
Since then, for the first time in four years, the federal Government has stopped banning the use of large banners by Falun Gong demonstrators outside the Chinese embassy in Canberra.
The horrific Falun Gong claims were prominently presented by a newspaper associated with the group, Epoch Times, which on March 10 said there was a "secret Nazi-style concentration camp at Sujiatun", a suburb of Shenyang, capital of Liaoning province. The paper said 6000 Falun Gong followers had been sent to the camp since 2001, and that three-quarters of them had had their hearts, kidneys, corneas and skin extracted, after which the remains of their bodies were incinerated.
According to Amnesty International, China killed at least 1770 of the 2184 people executed worldwide last year. But it could obtain no proof of more executions than that.
Falun Gong claimed its investigation "verified that the organs were extracted from people who were still alive". The body parts had become the principal source of China's thriving transplant market, its report said. The grim story has been raised internationally by two prominent Canadian human rights activists, former parliamentarian David Kilgour and lawyer David Matas, who are not practitioners of Falun Gong.
They published a report on the issue last month after research on behalf of a Falun Gong support group, the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of the Falun Gong in China. They say in their report: "We would like to pursue further research before we come to any firm conclusions. But based on what we now know, we have come to the regrettable conclusion that the allegations are true. "We believe that there has been and continues today to be large-scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners for sale at high prices, sometimes to foreigners who normally face long waits for voluntary donations of such organs in their home countries."
Mr Kilgour and Mr Matas say that of 60,000 transplants registered by the China Medical Organ Transplant Association from 2000-05, just 18,500 sources could be identified.
But the Canadians did not visit China, and thus relied on second-hand evidence.
Mr Wu, 69, was first arrested in 1956 for criticising the Communist Party during the feigned period of liberalisation after Mao Zedong said "let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend".
From 1960, Mr Wu was sent as a "counter-revolutionary rightist" to 12 different labour camps (laogai), where he was beaten, tortured and starved.
Earlier this year, Mr Wu's US-based Laogai Research Foundation spent six months investigating how the Huaxi Hospital in Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan province, was extracting organs for transplants from executed prisoners.
The foundation and Falun Gong discussed further co-operative investigations. But then the Falun Gong media published its shocking claims about the Sujiatun "concentration camp". Mr Wu said: "After reading the report carefully, I felt the (indirect testimony of) two witnesses cited was unreliable, and that this story might be fabricated."
He tried to contact Falun Gong's US spokesperson Zhang Erping about the issue, but did not get a reply. He then arranged for trusted contacts inside China to visit the Sujiatun area, where they stayed for more than three weeks. Their inspections included all the potential sites for forced extractions, including two military barracks, a hospital that specialises in treatment for blood clots and the Kongjiashan prison.
Mr Wu, who received photographs and written reports on each visit, said: "None of the investigations revealed any trace of the concentration camp."
"For more than 20 years, the Chinese Government has extracted large numbers of organs from death-sentence prisoners," Mr Wu said. "But a scale of 4500 live organ extractions is impossible in theory and unfeasible in practice."
Falun Gong said four months ago: "The world cannot wait until all the evidence becomes available, because the crimes will worsen. Even if there is a 1 per cent probability this is true, it is worth the whole world carefully and fully investigating."
Well now that we've got the truth out of the way, what's the going rate for a kidney in India?
El Weirdo
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The `Muslim Ummah` greatly involves pakistanis... who considers themselves `THEKEDARS` of Islam.
If the countries conventionally powerful than you guys and economically stronger arent doing anything abt it , why the hell r u guys burning ur hands in the fire?? Whats more important, getting trust and friendship of the countries around the world hence creating jobs by FDI or giving out to countries , exept china of course?
Islam isnt going anywhere , there are atrocities around the world , and not just on the basis of relegion , Cast , color , economic status etc.. if relegion is the only merit to go by , in terms of atrocities , Israel wud have wercked literally havoc , no body suffered as much as those ppl , 6 million of their ppl died just for being jew...
Re : chinas organ harvesting , I rememebr Falun Gong members protesting in Dublin , 6-7 yrs ago on O`connell street (one of the main st in Dublin) abt this too... and the rest of the chinese (probably Han) were standing on teh side of the road abusing them verbally amongst themselves , and the coppers were also deployed just in case the Han think they are in China and start riot just on the basis of being majority in China...
If the countries conventionally powerful than you guys and economically stronger arent doing anything abt it , why the hell r u guys burning ur hands in the fire?? Whats more important, getting trust and friendship of the countries around the world hence creating jobs by FDI or giving out to countries , exept china of course?
Islam isnt going anywhere , there are atrocities around the world , and not just on the basis of relegion , Cast , color , economic status etc.. if relegion is the only merit to go by , in terms of atrocities , Israel wud have wercked literally havoc , no body suffered as much as those ppl , 6 million of their ppl died just for being jew...
Re : chinas organ harvesting , I rememebr Falun Gong members protesting in Dublin , 6-7 yrs ago on O`connell street (one of the main st in Dublin) abt this too... and the rest of the chinese (probably Han) were standing on teh side of the road abusing them verbally amongst themselves , and the coppers were also deployed just in case the Han think they are in China and start riot just on the basis of being majority in China...
pandarunner
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Glad to know some guys hate China so much. Now about this claim, please show solid facts.
pandarunner
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Not for some people in China and in the west or many other places, you could google who the consumers for kidneys are on blackmarkets. Just like nearly all American adopters believe that they adopt Chinese girls in a totally legal way.
Selling organs can not be simply deemed as a crime, couple of months ago, a chinese boy sold one of his kidneys to buy an Iphone.
Sasquatch
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I approve of Taking Organs from Criminals and Murderers.
---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------
Pipe down you only care about Uighurs because they turks, this is the only reason you care about otherwise you don't know much of the other Muslims that live in china like Huis like myself.
---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------
Pipe down you only care about Uighurs because they turks, this is the only reason you care about otherwise you don't know much of the other Muslims that live in china like Huis like myself.
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