Is being Anti-Islam the same as Pro-Indian?

[ares]

I am a fairly extreme right winger but i dont have any hate for islam,the religion.

But i believe India has to be a Hindu country to counter balance the region and this fake secularism doesn't help.

As a hindu i would never harm the place of worship of any other religion or insult the womenfolk of any other religion to prove a political point or otherwise.

Everyone has a right to pray to whoever they want and live peacefully.

But i believe India has to be a hindu country and all the secularists should show more honesty in their lives rather than behaving a herd of brainwashed marxists,that they are.

Frankly,the war is with secularists who are confused themselves but try to give the perception to the rest of the country that they are the intelligentsia.

None of them are actually involved in useful professions qualifying intelligentsia like Academics,Doctors,Engineers,Army,Bureaucracy and are mostly involved in time pass professions like films,media and random dalaali.

we are more concerned this bunch of original jokers hijacking the power space in India.

And I am hardcore secularist..I sincerely believe, Indian leaders got it right the first time it self!

There is no room for religion in governance of the state. Religion should remain, where its meant to be, in people's personal lives!!

Indian secularism(there is still a lot room for improvement) is the best and perhaps the only counter to any fundamental yahoo state.

You defeat them by being better than them and not by becoming 'one' of them.

 

[bronxbull]

@Oscar Sir, we think it is of Indian heritage, even if it is built by a Hindu, Muslim or for Buddhists or Jains. If we leave this, we will be leaving our inter-twined traditions and customs.

There has been some unfortunate incidents that I agree but it is expected to happen especially in a country with such a population, and diversity.

People often talk about riots in India. But they never talk about stories when Hindu and Muslim families risked their lives to save the other religion neighbors from their own people.
Unfortunately, no one talks about it.

@bronxbull Its about generalization of entire community over action of few.

But there is also a cause behind it politically and this happens everywhere.

People do get stereotyped based on political decisions,

Serbs/Croats are War Crazy,Aussies are racists/convicts,South asians are smelly,etc etc

And some political decisions do have an effect,

If people from Central Asia start going to Afghanistan/Kashmir to fight on the side of Muslims,then a regular christian who only thought of his church and country ll now say,let me go and fight for my fellow russian brothers in chechenya and similar things.

This ll cause Kaffirs also to get politically motivated and end up in a war for dominance.

 

[Koovie]

And another topic here is that Most Indian did and still do want a Hindu state,the fact that castes and cultures of the native land is well alive is proof enough of that.

If Nehru and his academically decadent bunch were to represent Indians,then we would all be athiests,womanizers and carry psyphillis.

They never did represent India then or now,

Nor do all those Congress politicians who also happen to be Supreme Court Lawyers dont.

Indian Bureaucrats do,Indian NRIs do,Indian Sportsmen do and Indian Filmstars dont.

So,most people are unaware of the trap set by these seemingly elitist but really cunning and apathetic and parasites of our society.

So,thats why a fairytale constitution helps nobody if it clearly undermines the real sentiments and emotions of its people,

why do we need it,what have these dreamtale spinners given us?

Everything useful to India is largely contributed by Theists of any religion or largely spiritual people who come from middle class families with passion and love for the country and its traditions.

Why do this Jhola bunch of JNU/Liberal Arts idiots of St.Stephens deserve our time,is it for their verbosity?



Americans went a sparsely populated land and made their own culture,which was a mix of their native culture.

And they were succesful in getting rid of the land from the American Indians and same thing in South America where the Spanish/Potuguese almost eradicated native people and allw e have now is different shades of brown from mulato/mestizo.

If the Muslims had managed to do that,then there would be no problem but they did not do that.

All well and good but obviously you have to finish the job else the native guy at one point ll say,get out of my land.

so,yeah.

Stopped reading at this point. You have any claim for this nonsense, rather than your obviously confused brain?
You are the perfect internet Hindu.

Advocating a Hindu state from the safety of your computer somewhere outside India. Fail.

India has a constitution and is the perhaps most diverse country on earth. Her people will never accept one religion as an official state religion. Any fool dumb enough to try this will either kill himself or the unity of this country as a whole.

 

[bronxbull]

And I am hardcore secularist..I sincerely believe, Indian leaders got it right the first time it self!

There is no room for religion in governance of the state. Religion should remain, where its meant to be, in people's personal lives!!

Indian secularism(there is still a lot room for improvement) is the best and perhaps the only counter to any fundamental yahoo state.

You defeat them by being better than them and not by becoming 'one' of them.

Nobody wants a hindu theology here,first thing is we dont want the government managing our temples.

We want Hindu trusts to do it,Hinduism wont try to sneak into the government but the Government also should try and stop exploiting hindu temples and stealing their hundis but they dont interfere in Churches/Mosques/Wakf Board.

Simple as that,keep the religion truly separate,thats enough.

Stopped reading at this point. You have any claim for this nonsense, rather than your obviously confused brain?
You are the perfect internet Hindu.

Advocating a Hindu state from the safety of your computer somewhere outside India. Fail.

India has a constitution and is the perhaps most diverse country on earth. Her people will never accept one religion as an official state religion. Any fool dumb enough to try this will either kill himself or the unity of this country as a whole.

dont get panic attacks now and try to understand the point,try to understand hinduism first and even America is a liberal christian country and they are not doing worse in anyway.

The word secular was added in the 1970s to play politics with the muslim votebank and did not exist in 1950.

 

[Koovie]

Nobody wants a hindu theology here,first thing is we dont want the government managing our temples.

We want Hindu trusts to do it,Hinduism wont try to sneak into the government but the Government also should try and stop exploiting hindu temples and stealing their hundis but they dont interfere in Churches/Mosques/Wakf Board.

Simple as that,keep the religion truly separate,thats enough.



dont get panic attacks now and try to understand the point,try to understand hinduism first and even America is a liberal christian country and they are not doing worse in anyway.

The word secular was added in the 1970s to play politics with the muslim votebank and did not exist in 1950.

Religion needs to stay away from politics, vote bank politics is not better. But adding secular was perhaps not that bad.
And you cant compare any western country with India. Since there is no more diverse nation as India. Furthermore too many people/groups/states/parties will never allow a non secular India.

 

[ares]

Nobody wants a hindu theology here,first thing is we dont want the government managing our temples.

We want Hindu trusts to do it,Hinduism wont try to sneak into the government but the Government also should try and stop exploiting hindu temples and stealing their hundis but they dont interfere in Churches/Mosques/Wakf Board.

Simple as that,keep the religion truly separate,thats enough.

Well that is what being a secular state means..complete dissociation of the state and religion i.e state will not interfere in matters of the religion nor will it allow religion to interfere in matters of the state.

If that's what you truly want..then you want a better secular state and not a Hindu state.

A person's religion should have no bearing or consequence to how the state/constitution treats him.

 

[KRAIT]

@bronxbull You are highlighting same victim mentality and superiority which you hate about Islamic extremists. Why do you want to have a formal declaration from Indian Muslims that they were Hindus before. Did centuries of Muslim and Christian rule wiped out our religion ?

You know why ? Because we believe in our faith in our religion. We allow other religion just like our own. Islam came to our country and we absorbed it. Christianity came, we absorbed it too. We also gave Jainism and Buddhism.

If you are insecure about your faith then you shouldn't be following it at first place. No one and I mean no one can change my faith without my permission. Out of 7 billion people, around 1 billion are Hindus. We don't have to ask anyone to join us or leave us.

Hindutva ideology says that paths may be different, the destination is same, the Truth. Before talking against other religion, let us first get rid of evils in our own religion.

I believe n Bhagvad Gita and Karma. I believe in concept of Vasudev Kutumbhakum.

The extremism in religion, intra-religion discrimination and Pseudo-Secularism is what keeping my country from attaining its former glory.

 

[bronxbull]

@bronxbull You are highlighting same victim mentality and superiority which you hate about Islamic extremists. Why do you want to have a formal declaration from Indian Muslims that they were Hindus before. Did centuries of Muslim and Christian rule wiped out our religion ?

You know why ? Because we believe in our faith in our religion. We allow other religion just like our own. Islam came to our country and we absorbed it. Christianity came, we absorbed it too. We also gave Jainism and Buddhism.

If you are insecure about your faith then you shouldn't be following it at first place. No one and I mean no one can change my faith without my permission. Out of 7 billion people, around 1 billion are Hindus. We don't have to ask anyone to join us or leave us.

Hindutva ideology says that paths may be different, the destination is same, the Truth. Before talking against other religion, let us first get rid of evils in our own religion.

I believe n Bhagvad Gita and Karma. I believe in concept of Vasudev Kutumbhakum.

The extremism in religion, intra-religion discrimination and Pseudo-Secularism is what keeping my country from attaining its former glory.

Boss,

Nobody is interfering with the religious practices of any religion,nor are they asking them to give up their religion.

and how do you come up with this thing that i am insecure about my religion?

This is raw politics here and no emotions.

If other religions are organized and clear and have a clear cut agenda to undermine native faiths,then Hindus ll also do the same,this is not insecurity,this is caution and common sense.

You said nobody can change your faith without your permission,are you saying that nobody in India had to convert with a gun to their heads or a talwar on their neck,are you saying it was all peaceful and chilled out?

If you saying that,then i am sorry.You are plainly unaware about the history of this land,i know you are a Rajput,are you saying that Akbar fought the Ranas in Chittorgarh without the Muslim vs Hindu thing going on.

It is not about being insecure about one's faith,one's faith is fundamental and most theists dont think of an option to change their faith.

It is not furniture or wife to change.

Now,that is faith,we are trying to compare a religion and a value system with political identities and nobody wants to perish having realised the clear and present danger.

 

[bronxbull]

Well that is what being a secular state means..complete dissociation of the state and religion i.e state will not interfere in matters of the religion nor will it allow religion to interfere in matters of the state.

If that's what you truly want..then you want a better secular state and not a Hindu state.

A person's religion should have no bearing or consequence to how the state/constitution treats him.

Answer the question about government interference in Temples?

Secular state also means not giving Haj Subsidy,doing amendments and changing laws etc etc.

Infact most of the brain drain that has happened in India is due to this grossly confusing and mismanaged politics.

Religion needs to stay away from politics, vote bank politics is not better. But adding secular was perhaps not that bad.
And you cant compare any western country with India. Since there is no more diverse nation as India. Furthermore too many people/groups/states/parties will never allow a non secular India.

Boss,

India is behaving like a western country,parliamentary democracy is a western concept,then what should i compare India with?

and regarding religion in Politics,why dont you start with your state first and ask for repealing the Muslim League.

 

[Bang Galore]

Answer the question about government interference in Temples?

Why only temples? Wakf boards are set up by the government.

Secular state also means not giving Haj Subsidy

There is a subsidy given by the Karnataka government to go on pilgrimage to manasorovar.

doing amendments and changing laws etc etc.

other than the Shah Bano case, It is not clear what your point is.

Infact most of the brain drain that has happened in India is due to this grossly confusing and mismanaged politics.

Completely no connection to the topic under discussion.

 

[Zabaniyah]

I think we are looking at it from the wrong angle here

 

[KRAIT]

@bronxbull I don't know about other religion, but moral degradation of Hindus.

Do you know Dalits in a Bihar village are not allowed to enter the village and they have to survive on eating rats.?

What type of Hindu allow female foeticide, gang rape of Dalit women by higher castes, allow people to die of hunger ?

In our religion, Women have 50% reservation even at God level, but not in Parliament.

Because of extremism propagated and paranoia created, the moderate Hindus supports Pseudo Secular govt. like Congress. Because of this extreme ideology, Hindus are divided in three categories, the most violent ones, the moderate ones and the oppressed ones whom no one care.

We survived thousands of years, against Muslim and British Invasion but when I see Islamic and Hindu extremism locking horns along with Pseudo Secular opportunistic Congressi, I feel that this is the biggest danger to my country.

Look at Modi. What he did in a decade. Even Muslims are voting for him. He not only kicked Muslim extremists but also tightened Hindu extremists like Bajrang Dal and VHP.

I ask you to stop this extremism. People from West are coming to learn Hinduism. Its spreading without any effort or gun on anyone's head.

Come to my village and I will show you what is the real threat to our country.

Religion is like a product. You have to keep its quality to keep it as a successful product. Increase the quality of Hindus within our community, see how people will adopt it without saying any word to anyone.

Yes I am Rajput and I will rather die if someone attacks my family and my neighbor who is from other religion, defending them against my own people or others if they are wrong.

 

[arp2041]

I think we are looking at it from the wrong angle here

Hey @Loki man, great to see you in those colors

I wanted to ask you about the Tolerance Level or rather TROLLance Level that you will permit in the BD section???

& Pls can we see more Defence thread in BD section rather than Political a.k.a India Bashing threads???

 

[KS]

Largely true. But there are examples. Gulab Singh comes to mind. He massacred Afghan tribesmen while being a commander under Ranjit Singh.

Afridi tribesmen who were warring with him and who set the ball in motion by their revolt against Sikh empire.

And technically he was not a Hindu.

Any other example ?

.....Even if we admit that there was a temple in that place, where do you stop if you begin unravelling history?!.....

Atleast till our most sacred spots are free, which is the demand. I, personally, feel Ayodhya is enough if the Muslims can voluntarily give back the land for the mandir.

Actually a voluntary transfer of the land would be a win-win for Muslims as they would be relinquishing something that they anyway dont have control over and more importantly it would generate an immense goodwill among the Hindus and will be a new beginning. If they dont, then anyway, that land is not going anywhere and Muslims would have lost a chance to turn over a new page.

....Just by destroying a mosque, you cannot defeat religious intolerance. It still will remain a fact that Babar won Delhi and butchered a crore of Indians(Hindus if you may, but also remember he won over a Muslim king to take over Delhi)...

He won over the land, not the hearts of the people. He will forever remain the outsider who was not welcome here.

....If it remains there, it will remind us as to what will happen if we don't defend our country the next time around....

...By attacking such mere symbols, you are just trying to forget history, a futile exercise. The fact remains that our ancestors lived as Dhimmis and now we better prevent anyone else from getting such a status....

Plenty of structures are still there to remind us of that. Ex: the mosque in place of Kashi Vishwanath Temple.

Who said anything about "forgetting" history ? I would rather have people not forget that and instead learn from that. This specific incident, was just reclaiming what was ours to begin with. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[kalu_miah]

You might be interested to read post #71.

Partition was what you said it was, and therein lies the tragedy. Without that silly idea, the population of Muslims would have been a strong, self-confident mass in areas that are today India; conversely, the population of Hindus and Sikhs would have been a strong, self-confident mass, each of them, in areas that are today Pakistan and Bangladesh.

In my view, partition is irreversible. So the epiphany of a SAARC-wide union, which would be a wonderful thing considered in the abstract, is never going to happen.

Isn't it strange to think that what you are advocating for the future was there for the taking in 1947? ironic.

I said that as well, partition is irreversible. I presented reversing partition as a solution, but pointed out why India will not go for it, because the majority community do not want to see increase in percentage of Muslim population.

So, I am not advocating for it, rather I pointed out why it is impossible to happen.

And I agree, not having partition in 1947 was the best solution for all, so my views are similar to those of Abul Kalam Azad and Badshah Khan. Such is the tragedy of history, short sighted leaders screw up the future potential of the people they think they are leading.

But the movement of nations and their orbit has not ended. New unions will be created and borders will change, just like it is happening in EU. Scotland under EU now is getting independent from UK. So will be the future here in South Asia. Change is the only constant.