IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Gomig-21]

What are your thoughts on Russia willing to sell R-37 to Iran?

I think we all know that Netanyahu has a very close and personal relationship with Putin, even sits right next to him at some of the Russian victory day parades and of course, the behind-the-scenes cooperation with the belligerent state in Syria are all indicative of applied pressure on him to not supply Iran with anything, let alone brutal missiles that can shoot down Israeli AWACs and incoming threats from long distances. But I also would like to think that Russia has its own initiative to be able to support and supply its allies with whatever they need. So it's almost 50/50 TBH. Really hard to tell until we see things materialize on the ground.

My friend @sami_1 said several times that Egypt was scheduled to get R-77-1s and R-37s with the Su-35 order, and we all know how weapons for Egypt make our neighbor freak out and do backflips while screaming bloody hell! So it's honestly difficult to say for sure. It would be great to see it happen, especially the way Ukraine is getting all the support from the west to fight Russia. Now Russia needs to do its thing.

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1704207437287375174

 

[lydian fall]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1704207437287375174

Su-57

 

[Piet]

Greetings

I have been racking my brains over how an AIM-7 <--> Arash development could look like.

When I came across the following I found it interesting to find that AIM-7 could have an extended family tree. Well, some more so than others obviously:-

View attachment 950584

The same pertaining to the combat a/c which could likely be unveiled in Sept/Oct.

Well, as I have indicated elsewhere from Iran do not expect the expected.

I will therefore give my brain a rest, and await the official unveiling(s) like all the rest, patiently.

P

Fell of the wagon... could not resist:-

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/south-african-missiles-rockets-pgms-prototypes-pro

jects-concepts-etc.21179/

Impundulu BVRAAM (top). It is much larger than A-Darter, and looks to be a fair bit larger than Marlin as well. A-Darter outboard. A-Darter has a D=166 mm and L= 2,98m. Impundulu was reportedly canned to avoid impacting or duplicating the Marlin BVRAAM program. Any enterprising member out there wishing to try his or her hand in estimating the L & D of Impundulu?

In March 2015 SAAF ordered 41 A-Darter operational missiles, 21 trainer variants and 8 practice variants from Denel Dynamics.

South African missiles/rockets/PGM's - Prototypes, Projects, Concepts, etc.

I think it necessary to lay some background for this thread - it will go a long way to creating some understanding for an outsider into why some a lot of the concepts we were developing were being done (and even those we did complete). It may not have made sense to a NATO country to develop -...

www.secretprojects.co.uk

https://defense-arab.com/vb Impundulu /threads/160407/​

Marlin would have a range if the order of 100km, ARH, and fairly sophisticated processors where one board can replace a number of existing ones, or supplement them. I believe that Iran too has implemented -or will- such an arrangement on Kowsar.

So, what has Iran to do with the above?

Iran is on the cusp (hopefully) of revealing its AIM-7-Arash BVRAAM.

It has reportedly fielded an Umkhonto Short-Range SAM look-alike. Wags even asked whether the last-mentioned spoke Zulu? Umkhonto is Zulu for ‘Spear’. I just could not lay my hand on the supposed Iranian designation of the same at the moment.

So, possibly ‘Spear’, then why not Impundulu or Marlin also? Beg, steal, or borrow… . All’s fair in love & war.

Enjoy

P

 

[mack8]

Are you refering to the Zoobin/Navvab SAM system Piet?

 

[mohsen]

Why do you think the Su-35 won't be coming to Iran? Can you share your thoughts?

I meant we wont use an expensive gen 4++ fighter to drop bombs!

 

[Piet]

Are you refering to the Zoobin/Navvab SAM system Piet?

Yes, I thought along these lines.

Thanks.

P

 

[Hack-Hook]

israel has access to deep america, you know it, they can provide many things. how did you guys keep your aircrafts on air without spare parts? you basically got from america directly and indirectly. iran industry were nothing until 2010's.
dont fool yourself ,you guys presented cobra choppers 10 years ago and said oh look "we produce cobra helis %100 in iran" where are they know? what happen to your cobra manufacturing capability? let me explain, usa provided some spare parts and then you guys started to propaganda for new cobras!
lasty iranians are not the smartest people on the planet but you guys think so.

USA even did not export f14 to Israel and no we didn't get f14 from israel
For F14 We get them from America itself.
And what we get that you claim we get from Israel was the deal with Cia when congress didn't approved their budget for work in south America
They sold us helicopter parts and tow missiles and because they were not allowed to give the equipment directly to us
They transfered nato equipment to Israel and then transfered the same type of equipment from Israel arsenal to us and then dbused our money for supporting contras in central america

On other hand weapons used in Afghanistan against Ussr belong to Israel they only repackaged them in Egypt and the money was given to Israel but no one seems to care about that

 

[AmirPatriot]

For sure. Iran already has the standard of both those missiles anyway (the R-27 also). It wouldn't make any sense to include the standard missiles with the Su-35 and not the improved versions. It would be akin to cutting one's nose to spite one's face lol.

Plus without the verification from any official announcement as to the validity of the improved missiles with the SU-35 deal, there are ways to visually identify them which I'm sure you already know. I'll post about that a bit later.

What about this? Any truth to this Su-30 claim? If so, then our suggestions were right on the money!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699815887241425320

Yes, the L-band arrays in the leading-edge flaps were included in the Egyptian SU-35s and yes they were/are IFF arrays and supposedly complement the IRBIS-E with AESA capabilities.

We were psyched about those features and went into great details about them. But then that story popped out of nowhere of an EAF Rafale had supposedly jammed the IRBIS-E radar with its EW SPECTRA during testing in Egypt causing the EAF to reconsider the radar and request its replacement with the new N036-1-01 AESA radar of the Su-57 in its place.

Turns out the story was false and actually happened during an Indian/French exercise between the IAF's Su-30MKI and a L'Armee de L'Air Rafale which allegedly jammed the Su-30MKI's BARS PESA radar, not the IRBIS-E. Crazy how rumors get crawling legs and turn into Olympic sprinters legs loool.



Honestly, I don't think that is a fair label on Iran. They haven't really bought anything significant from outside sources in decades because of the sanctions (maybe the S-300 and some other comparable systems) hence forcing their hands to heavily invest in their domestic military industry and have been quite successful at it. Its efforts are commendable, especially in the UAVs and unmanned systems. Somehow hacking or if it was an accident while getting its hands on the RQ-170 Sentinel and reverse engineering it was history in the making. Getting first-hand US stealth design and tech was huge.

They did implement proxy conditions in Syria and with Hezbollah but that was mostly to keep the Israelis at bay. Nothing wrong with that IMO considering the blatant threats the latter crybaby constantly throws and threatens Iran with. The only thing I had issue with was their support of the Houthis, but there are always disagreements in everything and that's a separate topic. Other than that, it has the right to defend itself from its own, perceived threats.



I'm quite aware of all the features on the EGY Ka-52. All its MAWS & RWRS and the President-S and DIRCM etc. No one was questioning that and least of all me.

Also the OLS-52 Electric Optical System is actually a joint effort production between a French and Russian co. which was a great modification for the EAF to add to the Ka-52. It wasn't a complete French product installed and integrated on a Russian-built platform.



I think you missed one of my posts where I had mentioned its new Egyptian name.

Let's continue this discussion on the EAF thread ya habibi so we don't pollute our Iranian brothers' thread here. I'll counter some of your points in a little while.

Iran doesn't have R-77s, but in any case the base version isn't (and never really was) in serial production. So I don't think it would even be on offer. We'll see anyway. I'm aware there are ways to visualise ID them.

Su-30s: it's a rumour that Iran will buy low (probs single digit) numbers of Su-30s as conversion trainers for the single-seat Su-35. Just a rumour, but I will say that the source of the rumour is the same as the one that reported the Yak-130 delivery including shortly before we saw the pictures (might have released the pics too, I'm not sure).

Always knew that Rafale story was BS - after all Egypt never took delivery. The Indian story is the first time I've heard anything as the explanation rather than pure fabrication.

I was wondering about that part of the video also. The US even went as far as stripping every single F-14 of critical parts (and probably destroying them) before sending them to the Arizona boneyards to be sure no one gets access to them. This was done specifically to prevent them from getting into the black-market for Iran. And right at the time of the revolution and shortly thereafter, with all the hostages held in Iran and looming war with the US, the tensions were incredibly high that it was more than likely impossible for anyone to be able to smuggle F-14 parts to Iran, least of all the belligerent state.



Why do you think the Su-35 won't be coming to Iran? Can you share your thoughts?

If and when they do, here's a great example of the loadout lethality of the Su-35S. Supposedly this is for combined CAP & SEAD missions:

- R-37Ms (x2)
- R-77-1s (x2)
- R-73/74Ms (x2)
- Kh-31PM (x1)
- L265M ECM wingtip pod (x2)

View attachment 954683

And look at this deadly & mostly A2A configuration:

- R-77-1 (x4)
- R-73/74Ms (x4)
- KH-31M (x1)
- With empty wingtip pylons (no ECM pods), it could add an additional 2 R-74Ms

View attachment 954684

Iran actually got a huge amount of Tomcat parts smuggled out of the US (outside of Iran-Contra), and not because the US was very keen on it. US controls on parts were very lax until the mid-late 2000s. They used to (and I think still do) auction surplus parts.

I listened to a podcast interviewing a US agent tasked with stopping that. He said it got so bad that they would seize certain parts about to be illegally exported, only to find them back at auction.

Israel never had anything to do with F-14 parts. AFAIK the only reports involving them refer to Hawks and F-4 parts along with other items.

PS: Sorry for late reply, I'm not that active on the forum nowadays.

 

[Gomig-21]

Iran doesn't have R-77s, but in any case the base version isn't (and never really was) in serial production. So I don't think it would even be on offer. We'll see anyway. I'm aware there are ways to visualise ID them.

I didn't mean to suggest you didn't know the visual difference between the new R-77 and the older one. I was just making a general statement about being able to identify the differences. Sometimes my thoughts get all jumbled gumbled together lmao.

The IRIAF doesn't have the original R-77? Man, I could've sworn I saw the MiG-29s with them. Must've been thinking of a different air force.

What do you mean the base version isn't in serial production?

Always knew that Rafale story was BS - after all Egypt never took delivery. The Indian story is the first time I've heard anything as the explanation rather than pure fabrication.

Yep, that's right. Good thing there were several local enthusiasts who researched the origin of the true story that had apparently been bastardized through social media world renowned journalists lmaaaooo. Clowns. There was obviously a major agenda behind it.

Funny thing is that once the US got involved and threatened CAATSA and proposed their counteroffer of F-15s (after the EAF had requested and was denied that fighter 2 times since the 90s), the apartheid state came out of nowhere and voiced their approval. As if anyone asked them or their opinion mattered!? The nerve. That also tells you they'd rather see the F-15 instead of the Su-35S.

ran actually got a huge amount of Tomcat parts smuggled out of the US (outside of Iran-Contra), and not because the US was very keen on it. US controls on parts were very lax until the mid-late 2000s. They used to (and I think still do) auction surplus parts.

That's why they stipulated that procedure (for the lack of a better term) on all the retiring Tomcats that were destined to the boneyard. That was right around the time the F-14s were being retired from the USN. They tried everything they could to prevent Iran from acquiring any spares for obvious reasons. I'm sure there was a black market; there always is. Another reason why it's admirably impressive those jets are still flying in great condition.

PS: Sorry for late reply, I'm not that active on the forum nowadays.

No worries, bro. Hope all is well.

 

[AmirPatriot]

I didn't mean to suggest you didn't know the visual difference between the new R-77 and the older one. I was just making a general statement about being able to identify the differences. Sometimes my thoughts get all jumbled gumbled together lmao.

No worries my friend.

The IRIAF doesn't have the original R-77? Man, I could've sworn I saw the MiG-29s with them. Must've been thinking of a different air force.

We don't even have the extended range versions of the R-27 (ER/ET). Just the standard R/T.

What do you mean the base version isn't in serial production?

As far as I know the R-77 was never produced in significant numbers for the RuAF. R-77-1 was the first to enter wide service.

There was obviously a major agenda behind it.

Comes with the territory of being a Russian aircraft. Even many "respectable" outlets are known to willingly/unwillingly succumb to misinformation. Gets worse when you have different national rivalries like Pakistan v India, China v India etc.

Doesn't help that there's not a lot of English-language primary sources of info on it. When researching for my Su-35 article, most of the good info was on *archived* Russian-language sites. A lot of sites got purged of info since the Ukraine war.

No worries, bro. Hope all is well.

All good. It's just the nature of the forum, as you might have noticed in the last few pages...

 

[eagle2007]

Gomig-21,

Oddly enough, I'm not actually aware of any pictures that prove the IRIAF even received the R-27T (IR-guided). It's always been assumed they imported both variants but with non-Warsaw Pact importers of MiG-29s pre-1992, we should be suspicious of what level of kit the Soviets were comfortable exporting.

Concerning the R-77, most books that include this topic point to the fact the missile didn't finish initial development until AFTER the USSR fell and by then the RuAF had very limited funds for a new BVR missile when they had a big stock of R-27s available, let alone one that hadn't already been in production before. Instead, like how most new-built Flankers since 1991 have been built for export customers, the same was true for the R-77 and current production being for much newer variants.

 

[Gomig-21]

As far as I know the R-77 was never produced in significant numbers for the RuAF. R-77-1 was the first to enter wide service.

"Serial" being the operative word. My bad. I think it's perfectly reasonable to produce them under the concept of 'as needed', especially when export missiles can sometimes have storage issues, such as the large batch of missiles India had that went 'bad' and blame was tossed back & forth as to the reason. Producing them at required numbers for local or export needs is ideally the best way to manage any issues, especially financial ones.

As far as I know the R-77 was never produced in significant numbers for the RuAF. R-77-1 was the first to enter wide service.

And rightfully so, which has been my primary pet-peeve with the EAF's missile order for its rather large batch of MiG-29M/M2s. Why they seem to have purchased the standard R-77 only and not the much-improved R-77-1 baffles me and irritates me to no end. Hence why I keep saying I truly hope Iran is smarter and able to procure the RVV-SD and not just the AE if it does get the Su-35. It makes absolutely no sense with the availability of the newer and modern extended range version. Get them both, that's fine. But only the standard one? Pisses me off to no end.

If much of this really has to do with Russia's apprehension in supplying their advanced weapons systems to countries that are seen by the US or even the irrelevant apartheid state as belligerent or potential threats in other ways such as violating strict 3rd party infraction rules, I can understand that. Since that very well could be the case with Egypt, unfortunately, with a rather bad track record in that sense as a result of playing both sides of the superpower coin. But with Iran, the only risk would be domestic R&D which I highly doubt would be too much of a concern for Russia.

When researching for my Su-35 article, most of the good info was on *archived* Russian-language sites. A lot of sites got purged of info since the Ukraine war.

I believe it.
You wrote an article for what? Please share, would love to see that.

Gomig-21,

Oddly enough, I'm not actually aware of any pictures that prove the IRIAF even received the R-27T (IR-guided). It's always been assumed they imported both variants but with non-Warsaw Pact importers of MiG-29s pre-1992, we should be suspicious of what level of kit the Soviets were comfortable exporting.

Makes sense. Contrary to popular belief, Russia is just as strict as the other big dogs in sharing its high-end tech with just anyone, I agree.

Concerning the R-77, most books that include this topic point to the fact the missile didn't finish initial development until AFTER the USSR fell and by then the RuAF had very limited funds for a new BVR missile when they had a big stock of R-27s available, let alone one that hadn't already been in production before. Instead, like how most new-built Flankers since 1991 have been built for export customers, the same was true for the R-77 and current production being for much newer variants.

And that has unfortunately worked against Russia. The hardship the country had suffered resulted in unfair labeling of the quality of its products, specifically weapons. They also don't emphasize or advertise their products' testing on a regular basis, or at least it doesn't get the same exposure as American or even European systems. The good news is that just in the past 10 years alone, they've developed incredible weapons and improved on older versions in highly effective ways. They just need to take advantage of marketing methods a lot better than they have so far, especially with all the successes they've had in this recent war. Show them off, maaan!

And with the advent of IA, I see huge leaps coming in the near future, despite the baseless notions that Russia lacks in "certain" technological capabilities.

BTW, I saw this the other day and thought I'd share it. Not intended for anyone or anything in particular except to show the complex circuitry of an older SAHR missile in the AIM-7 Sparrow and what goes into producing an A2A missile. Pretty crazy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1703716982690840774

 

[RΛIDEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1704785852105208051

 

[shadihassan28]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1704785852105208051

Sorry I didn’t look this up at all but your telling me China Russia Japan and Korea don’t have the technology to build refueling truck for airplanes kudos for being self sufficient like all Muslim countries should I just don’t see it credible.