IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Muhammed45]

IRIAF should buy Tejas from India.

To sell Tejas you need permission from USA, ISrael, Russia and EU at same time.

To sell JF-17 you need Russian and Chinese permission.

China on the other hand is hesitant to introduce its Flanker derivatives in international markets because of Russian copyright.

Better to go for Russian fighter instead of trying to appease half of the world powers.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

To sell Tejas you need permission from USA, ISrael, Russia and EU at same time.

To sell JF-17 you need Russian and Chinese permission.

China on the other hand is hesitant to introduce its Flanker derivatives in international markets because of Russian copyright.

Better to go for Russian fighter instead of trying to appease half of the world powers.

Why not collaborate with Turkey for 5th gen. TFX.it will be ready until 2045.

 

[Muhammed45]

Why not collaborate with Turkey for 5th gen. TFX.it will be ready until 2045.

Turkey is a NATO member state. They will be sanctioned severely.

The biggest cooperation that we had with Turkey was smuggling of F-4/5 spare parts during Iran-Iraq war possibly at 10X market price.

Russia is currently hit by CAATSA so they have no reason to avoid selling fighter jets to IRIAF. Turkey on the under hand is not. They still are hopeful to return to F-35 program and cooperation with South Korea in many fields such as an engine for Altay tank.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Turkey is a NATO member state. They will be sanctioned severely.

The biggest cooperation that we had with Turkey was smuggling of F-4/5 spare parts during Iran-Iraq war possibly at 10X market price.

Russia is currently hit by CAATSA so they have no reason to avoid selling fighter jets to IRIAF. Turkey on the under hand is not. They still are hopeful to return to F-35 program and cooperation with South Korea in many fields such as an engine for Altay tank.

So you cannot collaborate with any country for conventional war weapons.

You will have to create each and every thing from scratch which is both time consuming and expensive.

In modern world, joint ventures are the way to go to keep the pace with enemies.

 

[Hack-Hook]

If Iran wants to invest in the airforce then it would mainly be for potentially engaging with regional rivals in a local conflict. Against a superpower like the US I'm afraid its just thought of as a waste of money without much potential for a capacity to retaliate.

However if Iran does decide to buy modern some flankers then they should surely build some mountain strongholds and runways that lead to some safe underground bunkers. Yeah it just feels as if with the current direction of UAVs and reusable, expandable missile systems that Iran just sees more bank for the buck with the asymmetrical missile/drone option.

The thing with UAVs is that they're much cheaper and more expendable that fighter jets that cost tens of millions a piece with each pilot taking years to train. Nations simply aren't willing to risk their fighter jet and pilot unless they pretty much have air superiority regardless. I mean losing a piece of equipment that costs 50-100 million a piece is extremely painful. Of course for air superiority however there is no contest. Drones just aren't there yet, but even then air defenses can play a huge role in denying air access to the enemy, which is what Iran's air defense network is geared for.

I believe if Iran want to buy another aircraft it will be mainly for complementing our air defense system , for CAS it seems we have decided to go F-5 variant route , for bombing enemy we invested heavily on suicide drones and missiles and I think thats what we have decided to use for that.

for protecting our air force and keeping it operational in case of war with enemy , there is another solution that I think is more effective.

BAS-90​

But for that strategy to be applicable we need to think about larger quantity of middle sized aircraft than a small number of larger aircraft like Flankers

 

[Natalya Shadova]

Azarakhsh missile. I wonder how good the new seeker is. Hopefully Iran can make an AIM-120C/D class missile in the future

 

[applesauce]

You mean the country that claims it somehow how has the LEAST amount of COVID deaths among the 5 industrial powerhouse nations despite having at least 2-3x their population? Or the country that claims the virus didn’t escape from a lab? Or the country that claims it isn’t systemically oppressing Muslims and committing large scale genocide and brainwashing? That China?

I wouldn’t trust Chinese reports worth a damn thing. If you have non bias sources actively comparing the two, I would love to hear them. But Chinese censored reports are not viable data pieces.

In real war, SU-35s would win against J-10C 9 times out of 10. Not “simulated” exercises where the parameters get changed to make the outcome more favorable for the commanders to report to their superiors.

But at this point it’s all theoretical much like most fighter jets 1 v 1 since we haven’t had modern dog fights since the Iran-Iraq war 40+ years ago. Minus some India-Pakistan skirmishes.

yes, the country reports the least because it has the least deaths. you know, due to the "extreme" lockdowns, westerners keep crying "human rights abuse" about? you got anti-vaxxers going to parties, 5 day quarantines for positives, while china has community watchmen guarding the village entrance against anyone without a logged and recorded negative test from the last 3 days,
You got failing hospitals while china builds muti-thousand bed full service quarantine wards in 12 days

and lab? yea, from an american lab and released during the world military games in china by the CIA.

and your continued fakes news about xinjiang what with the "eye witnesses" who cries "genocide, murder, rape, forced labor" the same people who three years ago said they saw solitary confinement but no violence. they have not been back in chia in the mean time. and pictures of warehouses that you claim are camps.

see, facts dont give a shit about what your views on china is. facts are china has extremely little covid and virtually all are from external visitors.

And back on topic. there is every reason to believe chinese electronics are superior to the russian ones.

 

[TheImmortal]

yes, the country reports the least because it has the least deaths. you know, due to the "extreme" lockdowns, westerners keep crying "human rights abuse" about? you got anti-vaxxers going to parties, 5 day quarantines for positives, while china has community watchmen guarding the village entrance against anyone without a logged and recorded negative test from the last 3 days,
You got failing hospitals while china builds muti-thousand bed full service quarantine wards in 12 days

and lab? yea, from an american lab and released during the world military games in china by the CIA.

and your continued fakes news about xinjiang what with the "eye witnesses" who cries "genocide, murder, rape, forced labor" the same people who three years ago said they saw solitary confinement but no violence. they have not been back in chia in the mean time. and pictures of warehouses that you claim are camps.

see, facts dont give a shit about what your views on china is. facts are china has extremely little covid and virtually all are from external visitors.

And back on topic. there is every reason to believe chinese electronics are superior to the russian ones.

Save your propaganda for someone who believes your retarded way of thinking.

“there is every reason to believe Chinese electronics are superior to the Russian ones”

Then proceeds to list no reasons/evidence of his claim. Trust me bro.

Sounds like a seller on AliBaba “very good. Better than original! So good! Buy now!”

 

[applesauce]

Save your propaganda for someone who believes your retarded way of thinking.

“there is every reason to believe Chinese electronics are superior to the Russian ones”

Then proceeds to list no reasons/evidence of his claim. Trust me bro.

Sounds like a seller on AliBaba “very good. Better than original! So good! Buy now!”

my response was for everyone except you, because you obviously don't give two shits about any facts, but it'll at least bring everyone else laughs about how dumb you are.

and your smearing lies isnt even a bad thing for china. the more anti-chinese gremlins like you burying their heads in the sand(especially if they are in power), means the greater likelihood that no working policy against china will ever come about, because garbage in, garbage out. you just assume china can't do something because you're blinded by racism or pure hatred while ignoring or ignorant of all facts and logic pointing out that china is not only capable but actually doing it right now, then you'll never be prepared.

This is why the west predicts that china collapses every single year, but reality dont give a shit about your wet dreams and china only "collapses" upward and while you blame china for basically every bad thing that ever happened to you, you dont actually fix your own problems because your laziness isnt your fault, why fix it? its china's fault. your basic education and lower level schooling is producing bad results, but you dont have to change your system, because it just china's fault. your minorities are rioting in the streets, but why check out what they're demanding? they're just china pawns anyways. your 1% owns 80% of your nation's wealth while the middle class sinks into poverty, but thats not a systemic issues, theres nothing to fix its clearly china's fault.
You don't have to fix anything, its all china's fault, you only need to blame china and and continue to come up with more ineffectual policies against china.

and hey, I gave exactly as much evidence as you did when you claimed "In real war, SU-35s would win against J-10C 9 times out of 10"

if you can't be bothered, why on earth should I be?

 

[TheImmortal]

my response was for everyone except you, because you obviously don't give two shits about any facts, but it'll at least bring everyone else laughs about how dumb you are.

and your smearing lies isnt even a bad thing for china. the more anti-chinese gremlins like you burying their heads in the sand(especially if they are in power), means the greater likelihood that no working policy against china will ever come about, because garbage in, garbage out. you just assume china can't do something because you're blinded by racism or pure hatred while ignoring or ignorant of all facts and logic pointing out that china is not only capable but actually doing it right now, then you'll never be prepared.

This is why the west predicts that china collapses every single year, but reality dont give a shit about your wet dreams and china only "collapses" upward and while you blame china for basically every bad thing that ever happened to you, you dont actually fix your own problems because your laziness isnt your fault, why fix it? its china's fault. your basic education and lower level schooling is producing bad results, but you dont have to change your system, because it just china's fault. your minorities are rioting in the streets, but why check out what they're demanding? they're just china pawns anyways. your 1% owns 80% of your nation's wealth while the middle class sinks into poverty, but thats not a systemic issues, theres nothing to fix its clearly china's fault.
You don't have to fix anything, its all china's fault, you only need to blame china and and continue to come up with more ineffectual policies against china.

and hey, I gave exactly as much evidence as you did when you claimed "In real war, SU-35s would win against J-10C 9 times out of 10"

if you can't be bothered, why on earth should I be?

Hilarious talk from a homer fanboy. Sorry to stop your fanboy China rant short, but my family and extended family do business in China, import/export business both those in Iran and those in the states. We are familiar with China from a business standpoint.

That doesn’t mean we blindly support China (or Iran for that matter) and avoid calling a spade a spade. Or worse be caught being a cape crusader Chinese government fanboy on random Internet forums using a communist star avatar.

Quite hilarious, continue defending that government. Could careless. But don’t assume people don’t do business in China or with China especially in the west, just because they don’t have highly favorable view of Chinese government. business is business, not personal.

Lastly, certain viewpoints of Russian vs Chinese hardware is for fanboys to debates. But I went thru SU-35S and J-10C and category comparison BVR arsenal, radar, cost, engine, ECW suite etc. you must of missed that in your race to defend Xi.

Also Earlier posts I did encourage Iran to get certain Chinese aircraft if available (unlikely China supplies them but still). Then fanboys (like yourself) came in took a educational topic and decided to say J-10C is way better than SU-35S and derailed the thread into a PS5 vs Xbox level fanboy debate. Even tho Iran was never even offered J-10C or J-10. But Pakistan fanboys can only promote that aircraft on here apparently (among other Chinese ones).

 

[applesauce]

Hilarious talk from a homer fanboy. Sorry to stop your fanboy China rant short, but my family and extended family do business in China, import/export business both those in Iran and those in the states. We are familiar with China from a business standpoint.

That doesn’t mean we blindly support China (or Iran for that matter) and avoid calling a spade a spade. Or worse be caught being a cape crusader Chinese government fanboy on random Internet forums using a communist star avatar.

Quite hilarious, continue defending that government. Could careless. But don’t assume people don’t do business in China or with China especially in the west, just because they don’t have highly favorable view of Chinese government. business is business, not personal.

Lastly, certain viewpoints of Russian vs Chinese hardware is for fanboys to debates. But I went thru SU-35S and J-10C and category comparison BVR arsenal, radar, cost, engine, ECW suite etc. you must of missed that in your race to defend Xi.

Also Earlier posts I did encourage Iran to get certain Chinese aircraft if available (unlikely China supplies them but still). Then fanboys (like yourself) came in took a educational topic and decided to say J-10C is way better than SU-35S and derailed the thread into a PS5 vs Xbox level fanboy debate. Even tho Iran was never even offered J-10C or J-10. But Pakistan fanboys can only promote that aircraft on here apparently (among other Chinese ones).

oh yea, your "family" "iran" "the states"
sure sure.
and i'm a reptilian lizard secretly controlling the world's governments. your real or not history has no impact on anything.

and you "blindly support" lol of course you don't blindly support china, i can clearly see you're blindly anti-china. I have never once claimed that the chinese government is perfect. in fact in this thread i've only said the chinese have the su-35 and have the j-10 and per their reports the su-35 is very maneuverable but is behind in electronics to the j-10c. i have never stated this as anything other than its a view from the chinese side, and i have never even said the chinese su-35 were equal to the russian ones, but if russia isnt selling those domestic versions then all anyone else should be concerned with is the export models. you're the one that started to go off a tangent about how because its chinese reports, they cant be trusted, for no other reason than only because they're chinese and then completely unrelated to anything here, crying about yours and other nation's incompetence in dealing with covid, and because nothing could possibly be wrong with your healthcare system/government, it must be because the chinese are at fault again.

and specs? lol

your listed missiles....missiles that china also literally has (R77), and china didn't find it impressive against modern chinese missiles(though at the time of the purchase they were much better than what china fielded) china has better ones, and is in fact fielding PL-15 now, even the us now warns of new chinese missiles (pleading for defence spending notwithstanding ).

Russia is known to have trouble developing aesa fighter radars, algeria literally rejected the su-35 because of this. while china is on something like the 3 gen of its aesa radars now. of course aesa is not the end all of everything, reports of early chinese digital radars indicate they were worse than late american mechanical radars. , but its an undeniable fact that AESA is a superior technology to PESA, and if they could they would be on it, every advantage they had with the PESA IRIS-E would only be amplified by a hypothetical ASEA IRIS-E and yet the fact that they cant offer this says alot. and lastly I would like russia to be strong too, it helps china if they were stronger than they are now, but facts are russia has no money and the soviet science they were left with can only sustain them for so long, and such a (relatively) small economy can only specialize to be strong in certain areas, and will fall behind in others from their soviet (relative) heights. look at the slow development pace of the su-57, look at the state of the russian navy. fact also are, that china bought some su-35, dont find them totally superior and didn't buy more, and china has no issues buying from russia if their stuff really is better, afterall russia is not going to embargo china, so there isnt any worries from that regard.

 

[Hack-Hook]

“there is every reason to believe Chinese electronics are superior to the Russian ones”

Then proceeds to list no reasons/evidence of his claim. Trust me bro.

I can say one , virtually 80% or more of all electronic produced in world are produced in China

Russia is known to have trouble developing aesa fighter radars, algeria literally rejected the su-35 because of this. while china is on something like the 3 gen of its aesa radars now. of course aesa is not the end all of everything, reports of early chinese digital radars indicate they were worse than late american mechanical radars. , but its an undeniable fact that AESA is a superior technology to PESA, and if they could they would be on it, every advantage they had with the PESA IRIS-E would only be amplified by a hypothetical ASEA IRIS-E and yet the fact that they cant offer this says alot.

they have AESA for Su-57 , so it's not the question of can or Can't but more likely want and don't want.

 

[TheImmortal]

I can say one , virtually 80% or more of all electronic produced in world are produced in China


they have AESA for Su-57 , so it's not the question of can or Can't but more likely want and don't want.

Produced in China and designed are two different things. Apple chips are not “Chinese” just because they are produced in China anymore than Peugeot 206 is “Iranian” when Iran assembles it in Iran.

And the term “electronics” in our discussion is ECW/Radar suite not raw material (semiconductor chips).

Iran doesn’t produce much semiconductor chips yet has potent air defense systems like Bavar 373, Khordad 15, etc etc

So if the claim was “Chinese semiconductors are better than Russian semiconductors” then that could be a valid claim. But that wasn’t the claim he was trying to make or if it was, I missed it. But to say China’s ECW suite, targeting pod, or seeker technology is better than Russia? Conjecture

Russia is known to have trouble developing aesa fighter radars, algeria literally rejected the su-35 because of this. while china is on something like the 3 gen of its aesa radars now. of course aesa is not the end all of everything, reports of early chinese digital radars indicate they were worse than late american mechanical radars. , but its an undeniable fact that AESA is a superior technology to PESA, and if they could they would be on it, every advantage they had with the PESA IRIS-E would only be amplified by a hypothetical ASEA IRIS-E and yet the fact that they cant offer this says alot.

Not going to address the rest of your immature childish comments, but I will address this part.

The only one saying SU-35 is inferior to J-10C was.....A Chinese report...something countries claim routinely. iran also claims that Bavar-373 is on par with S-400, but let’s be real.

Again no proof of Iran or Chinese claims. That was my point. Actually at least Iran’s military systems (UAVs, Air defense systems, BMs) have been tested against western armies. China high tech arms have rarely been tested. So everything is conjecture.

It’s Predator like UAV (Loong? Forgot the name) is routinely getting shot down in Yemen by Iran’s 351 insurgency Ground to Air missile.

As for the SU-35 that China has, I told you up till 2017 it didn’t even IRIS-E. China’s SU-35 was outdated export version, russia offered to upgrade them. So again how can you say IRIS-E is inferior just based on PESA vs AESA when at least till several years ago, it wasn’t in Chinese SU-35’s?

 

[Hack-Hook]

As for the SU-35 that China has, I told you up till 2017 it didn’t even IRIS-E. China’s SU-35 was outdated export version, russia offered to upgrade them. So again how can you say IRIS-E is inferior just based on PESA vs AESA when at least till several years ago, it wasn’t in Chinese SU-35’s?

well didn't Su-35 fail against Rafael

 

[applesauce]

I can say one , virtually 80% or more of all electronic produced in world are produced in China


they have AESA for Su-57 , so it's not the question of can or Can't but more likely want and don't want.

they can but the su-57 project itself is moving at a snail's pace. hardly a stunning example of engineering greatness. heck everyone expected russia to field a hundred of these before the j-20 is in full production, yet there are probably about 100 j-20s now and all of like 3? or 4? production su-57. again this comes back to having no money and unless you want to try and say the russian are somehow just plain better engineers or just smarter than everyone else(some crazy race theory), no money means you will decline especially if you are trying to keep pace with the world's best across the board and not just specializing in certain areas.

And thats really it. the russians are as good as anyone, they just have no money.