IRIAF | News and Discussions

[foxhoundbis]

Iran is at today with an engine .... speaks for it's self.
...
Iranian jet propulsion technology today:
Iran unveiled 4th generation light Turbofan engine رونمایی از موتور توربوفن سبک جهش ۷۰۰ در ایران - YouTube
...

I suspect Iran is on the verge to display its own version of RD-33.
The mass production of the RD-33 is not far and will happen likely in a few months.
I was amazed to see Iran able to overhaul the SU-22 and SU-24's fleets. As they modified the internal structure that allows Iran to equip its SU-22 with the heaviest payload, it does mean they modified, hence they can duplicate the AL-21.
Notice I have a source that claims North Korea ally was capable to duplicate their Mig-29, including its RD-33. The actual number of North Korea's Mig-29 is over 100. It does mean logically Iran will duplicate its RD-33 next.

 

[Raghfarm007]

The engine he is referring to tops out at 315 lbf and is practically a toy compared to the Toloue.... And it's an engine that was tested for the 1st time in 2020
So I wouldn't doubt their ability to produce that....

I am not saying that Turkey doesn´t have the capabilities to produce this simple jet engine, that Iran was producing over 20 years ago.... what I am saying is that the Turks constantly overestimate their capabilities and chose style over substance.
In the 20 plus years that I have been in these military forums...the Turks had until recently been making fun of Iran´s military products!!!!
This was because Iran chose the hard way of attaining technology, and chose to produce every component of a weapon itself. They also often had to start off producing older and uglier weapons. The Turks decided to produce weapons in Name only.....and imported the critical components of weapons.

Today we see the results of the policy paths of each country. Iran is increasingly producing leading edge technology weapons, with no impacts from outside sanctios, while the Turks have had all their weapons programmes stopped in their tracks because they can´t get parts from their NATO "allies".

Today we see Iran making its own Bavar 373, while Turkey has to buy the export version of S400 for bilions of dollars that it cant affors to spend and get sanctioned over it.

 

[VEVAK]

I suspect Iran is on the verge to display its own version of RD-33.
The mass production of the RD-33 is not far and will happen likely in a few months.
I was amazed to see Iran able to overhaul the SU-22 and SU-24's fleets. As they modified the internal structure that allows Iran to equip its SU-22 with the heaviest payload, it does mean they modified, hence they can duplicate the AL-21.
Notice I have a source that claims North Korea ally was capable to duplicate their Mig-29, including its RD-33. The actual number of North Korea's Mig-29 is over 100. It does mean logically Iran will duplicate its RD-33 next.

Overall the standard RD-33 is NOT a suitable engine for Iran's terrain. The RD-33 was developed for use in Russia's cold temperatures and does not perform as well as it should in warmer temperatures. However future upgrades to the engine has addressed that problem but that doesn't change the fact that the engine it's self was built for colder temperatures and would require additional subsystems for use in Iran's terrain.
This is mainly why our(Iran's) MiG-29's are stationed in the northern and colder parts of the country like Tabriz

I personally believe the choice of the RD-33 is NOT a good choice for Iran due to our terrain. I think Iran would be better off trying to either improve the AL-21 or reverse engineer the AL-31

I'm a big fan of the Al-31 variants however if we are unable to get our hands on that engine i would go with redesigning the AL-21 Iran can redesign the compressors and reduce the number of both high pressure and low pressure compressor and come up with something more compact, Iran can potentially improve and reduce the size of the combustion chambers, improve the fuel injection system or even add a subsystem that better mixes fuel & oxygen, improve the design of the turbines, improve and reduce the size and design of the afterburners, allow for low by pass over the high pressure compressors,.... to come up with something not necessarily more powerful but more compact and fuel efficient

 

[foxhoundbis]

Overall the standard RD-33 is NOT a suitable engine for Iran's terrain....The RD-33 was developed for use in Russia's cold temperatures and does not perform as well as it should in warmer temperatures.

This is the first time in my life -I am 54 y.o- I hear such things. Are U an engineer? Specialist? Could you develop more, please?

 

[IranDefence]

This is the first time in my life -I am 54 y.o- I hear such things. Are U an engineer? Specialist? Could you develop more, please?

He is right because of cold weather of Russia they use low quality alloy in their engines ... Ukrainian Antonov 140 had same problem in Iran , it had crash because of its engine ... Antonov140 and Mig 29 both have short range and where designed for Ukraine and Russia ... Mig 29 had many crashes in India even after using new engines

 

[foxhoundbis]

He is right because of cold weather of Russia they use low quality alloy in their engines ...

Low quality of alloy!
Another Scoop! I don't know where you did find such information.

Ukrainian Antonov 140 had same problem in Iran , it had crash because of its engine ... Antonov140 and Mig 29 both have short range ...

Wait a minute! Ukraine is not USSR first! Secundo in a previous comment I said that the Iranian AN-140's problems were a result of sabotages by your enemies. Israel and the US did all their possible to jam the engines provided by Ukraine to Iran. Moreover, Ukraine nowadays is not more than a failed country. Ukraine does have none future. Everything there is a matter of corruption. In Ukrain It is a mafia that leads this so-called country. Everything fails. All Ukraine's hardware is a failure, it is no use to mention it.

...Mig 29 had many crashes in India even after using new engines

Another problem that has nothing to see with the RD-33. India is famous around the world for its high level of fighter accidents. They lost several dozens of aircraft, what would be the explanation? Hard training? Pilots, that use their aircraft near the limit? Or near the limits of Pilots? Organizations? No one knows.

Just for information: Algeria uses several dozens Mig-29 -more than 100, if not around 200- they are more than satisfied. Egypt uses Mig-29 -they have now 50, and wants other dozens in the goals to replace their F-16's fleet-. beside others like Vietnam, Myanmar, Serbia, Yemen. Notice these last countries are not known to be in the northern hemisphere.
No use to mention North Korea with more than 100 Mig-29.

 

[EvilWesteners]

This is the first time in my life -I am 54 y.o- I hear such things. Are U an engineer? Specialist? Could you develop more, please?

Actually, VIVAK is very much correct, and I did work for quite some time at RR. We did experimentation with engine modifications and single piece front fan. AL21 can very much be improved. It won't be perfect, no - it won't and it won't be anything as good as AL-31. But heck, the AL-21 is one hell of an engine. I have done quite a bit of technical modeling experimentation on Khatchaturov R-35-300 and I am quite a fan if it. It can be modified with better blade timing, better compression management, and better fuel mixing. It can be modifed with a single piece front fan. It won't be difficult to add an electric fan (larger) in front of the engine driven by the generator of the engine. All of these are possible but need experimenting with and R&D to finish.

VIVAK is very much accurate (theoretically) with what can be done to AL-21 to improve it and enhance it.

Again, none of these are PERFECT - but Iran needs an engine with high thrust, it is not short of fuel, and range can be addressed with dormant air bases near the Persian Gulf which are not used at the moment. So Iran can certainly make this work for it. Enough to make the West crap in its pants.

Low quality of alloy!
Another Scoop! I don't know where you did find such information.


Wait a minute! Ukraine is not USSR first! Secundo in a previous comment I said that the Iranian AN-140's problems were a result of sabotages by your enemies. Israel and the US did all their possible to jam the engines provided by Ukraine to Iran. Moreover, Ukraine nowadays is not more than a failed country. Ukraine does have none future. Everything there is a matter of corruption. In Ukrain It is a mafia that leads this so-called country. Everything fails. All Ukraine's hardware is a failure, it is no use to mention it.


Another problem that has nothing to see with the RD-33. India is famous around the world for its high level of fighter accidents. They lost several dozens of aircraft, what would be the explanation? Hard training? Pilots, that use their aircraft near the limit? Or near the limits of Pilots? Organizations? No one knows.

Just for information: Algeria uses several dozens Mig-29 -more than 100, if not around 200- they are more than satisfied. Egypt uses Mig-29 -they have now 50, and wants other dozens in the goals to replace their F-16's fleet-. beside others like Vietnam, Myanmar, Serbia, Yemen. Notice these last countries are not known to be in the northern hemisphere.
No use to mention North Korea with more than 100 Mig-29.

AN140 accidents --- without a shadow of a doubt --- was sabotage. I can not discuss the evidence here. Enemies of Iran and Iranian people are relentless and well funded and they are here (no doubt). An140 accidents were SABOTAGE. Alloy mixing sabotage at source, leading to melting.

Iranian people have to wake up and realize ... ISRAEL & U.S. are the ENEMIES OF IRANIAN PEOPLE - not IRANIAN GOVERNMENT.

Don't fall for the bull$#!t of the West. They murdered 140m native Americans and Hollywood made movies for 80 years with John Wayne and Clint Eastwood, projecting native Americans as CRAZY VIOLENT MURDERERS. They were defending their land, there rights, the White Europeans were the murderers, not the other way around.

He is right because of cold weather of Russia they use low quality alloy in their engines ... Ukrainian Antonov 140 had same problem in Iran , it had crash because of its engine ... Antonov140 and Mig 29 both have short range and where designed for Ukraine and Russia ... Mig 29 had many crashes in India even after using new engines

Sorry with all RESPECT, cold weather blah blah is nonsense. Engines don't work like that. Cold weather does not affect the engine in a significant way. RR has been running tests for half a century and none point to this - in a significant way. There is also a bunch other factors, which I am not going to go through them here.

 

[EvilWesteners]

I suspect Iran is on the verge to display its own version of RD-33.
The mass production of the RD-33 is not far and will happen likely in a few months.
I was amazed to see Iran able to overhaul the SU-22 and SU-24's fleets. As they modified the internal structure that allows Iran to equip its SU-22 with the heaviest payload, it does mean they modified, hence they can duplicate the AL-21.
Notice I have a source that claims North Korea ally was capable to duplicate their Mig-29, including its RD-33. The actual number of North Korea's Mig-29 is over 100. It does mean logically Iran will duplicate its RD-33 next.

iran is not about to display its own RD-33. Fact.

 

[Shawnee]

iran is not about to display its own RD-33. Fact.

North Korea did. Iran is close.

 

[TheImmortal]

North Korea did. Iran is close.

You think NK with the budget of a third world country, reverse engineered RD-33, built ICBMs, built new tanks, etc?

Not even worth arguing with someone with those beliefs.

Plus @PeeD has commented on the likelihood of an Iranian RD-33. Which makes NK claims even more absurd.

 

[Saleh99]

You think NK with the budget of a third world country, reverse engineered RD-33, built ICBMs, built new tanks, etc?

Not even worth arguing with someone with those beliefs.

Plus @PeeD has commented on the likelihood of an Iranian RD-33. Which makes NK claims even more absurd.

You’re saying they’re fake or china made these for them?

 

[TheImmortal]

You’re saying they’re fake or china made these for them?

Someone is supplying the tech/systems to NK.

People seem to forget this is the same country that negotiated for RICE and GASOLINE from the US during negotiations in the 2000’s.

North Korea simply does not have the funds for such projects. It is absurd to suggest otherwise. Replicating jet engines and building them is easily a 10B+ project. And we think one of the poorest country’s on the earth was able to do it?

I swear...common sense is rare these days.

 

[EvilWesteners]

Someone is supplying the tech/systems to NK.

People seem to forget this is the same country that negotiated for RICE and GASOLINE from the US during negotiations in the 2000’s.

North Korea simply does not have the funds for such projects. It is absurd to suggest otherwise. Replicating jet engines and building them is easily a 10B+ project. And we think one of the poorest country’s on the earth was able to do it?

I swear...common sense is rare these days.

who is supporting NK military development? obviously, those that are pissed off with whom that is supporting military development in ROK and Taiwan.

 

[OldTwilight]

Overall the standard RD-33 is NOT a suitable engine for Iran's terrain. The RD-33 was developed for use in Russia's cold temperatures and does not perform as well as it should in warmer temperatures. However future upgrades to the engine has addressed that problem but that doesn't change the fact that the engine it's self was built for colder temperatures and would require additional subsystems for use in Iran's terrain.
This is mainly why our(Iran's) MiG-29's are stationed in the northern and colder parts of the country like Tabriz

I personally believe the choice of the RD-33 is NOT a good choice for Iran due to our terrain. I think Iran would be better off trying to either improve the AL-21 or reverse engineer the AL-31

I'm a big fan of the Al-31 variants however if we are unable to get our hands on that engine i would go with redesigning the AL-21 Iran can redesign the compressors and reduce the number of both high pressure and low pressure compressor and come up with something more compact, Iran can potentially improve and reduce the size of the combustion chambers, improve the fuel injection system or even add a subsystem that better mixes fuel & oxygen, improve the design of the turbines, improve and reduce the size and design of the afterburners, allow for low by pass over the high pressure compressors,.... to come up with something not necessarily more powerful but more compact and fuel efficient

do you know in which temperature turbo fan engine operate !? its not car engine ....

 

[gambit]

Overall the standard RD-33 is NOT a suitable engine for Iran's terrain. The RD-33 was developed for use in Russia's cold temperatures and does not perform as well as it should in warmer temperatures. However future upgrades to the engine has addressed that problem but that doesn't change the fact that the engine it's self was built for colder temperatures and would require additional subsystems for use in Iran's terrain.

Am not going to research this claim...

When I was active duty, my first assignment was the F-111. First was the D model for training and familiarization for one yr, then it was 3 yrs on the E model at RAF Upper Heyford. The F model was at RAF Lakenheath. The engines for the F-111 was the TF-30. My second jet was the F-16. The F-16 had two engines: Pratt/Whitney and General Electric. The F-111D was at Cannon AFB, New Mexico. That is desert. The F-111A/E/F and EF-111A were at Idaho and the UK. The FB-111A was at Plattsburgh, New York. People can research the environments of those locations. The F-16 is all over the world. USAF war doctrine expects our combat aircrafts to operate anywhere, with the exception of the poles, of course.

Whoever is paying attention to this thread should research the claim about the RD-33 because if true, the RD-33 is either a highly specialized engine for some SR-71 like platform or a piss poor engine design. Sorry for the bluntness.