sanel1412
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I'm not considering f-313 f14 replacement,that is whole point...it is almost without a2a capability..... if you attach two r73 it is waste of r-73....you can't fight in a2a battle by looking throughout cockpit glass...you need radar even if you will not use radar guided missiles...Aircrafts without radar mostly carry two r60 for self defence in visual range...F-5 has radar,even without engagement mode still it is used to track and intercept aircraft... Aircraft without radar has to be guided by other aircraft or ground support... Even if Iran develop IRST that could use longer range IR missiles still aircraft without radar is near useless since it is blind ...That is why aircrafts without radar are not considered capable for any a2a role and missiles they carry are for self defence... I'm not saying Iran will not maybe develop different larger version for some a2a role..but this current version is just what they say it is...Attack aircraft probably designed for specific role,conventional designed aircrafts can't fly at near subsonic speed at extremely low altitude for long time...first there is huge resistance aircraft experience and second, noise is huge and it burns fuel like hell..pilots flying at 500ft can maybe safely go up to 1.10-1.20 on flat terrain......above water this is even worse...just look how it look when some aircraft fly few meters above sea even at low speed..these water disturbances can also be detected..I think,this aircraft is designed with that in mind..this design is very good for low altitude high speed.it can carry two small anti-ship missiles in internal bay and penetrate without been detected...very fast and at extremely low altitude, considering threat from sea and also possibility of new tanker war...it is logic to consider this.But a2a role,even many people push this,is not something I see...and least not without major changes,even you are correct regarding sharing data with f-313.But aircrafts with a2a(don't confuse self defence, even su25 carry two r60)can't depend on other aircraft or ground support as main feature...those are good additional features that is mostly used to bring aircraft in to range of own radar or to guide pilot so it can aprouch enemy without been detected by using routes outside of enemy radar detection angle..Even f5 has radar,even it doesn't use it for engagement... In any a2a role you are depending on aircraft radar...not only search and detection.l but also to ping,identity,calculate precise range...pilots don't have much time in a2a battle,especially in visual and medium ranges..of course you can use anything for a2a role in emergency but I think we will see something different in this role very soon...and for air superiority fighter,I think Iran will buy some aircraft for this role while pushing domestic projects for advanced trainer/cas role and two more projects to boost domestic avio-industry.As I see Iran can produce avionics and weapons pack but problem is good engine(well only few countries don't struggle here),and as soon they resolve this issue,which is probably related for some rare alloys and materials,rest will not be issue...But I will repeat once again,in 2000(when Iran had experience with ARH a2a missiles and advanced tech)Chinese only BVR capable aircrafts were su-27,around 100 ..and only bvr missile was r27...Their fleet muscle were MIG-19/21 derivatives and their every airforce strategy was based on usage of huge number of aircrafts...If I told anyone in that time that China will have J-10,JF17...etc projects in 8-10 years,I would be considered idiot or CEO of communist party propaganda department.. And I think I can even find some of my posts from that time about China and Iran military..even most boards of that time are gone..will try to pull some...My point is,hardest point in avio-industry is industrialization and starting industry level production... It doesn't matter products are not state of the art now..Iran is already made important brake through and we should expect much more in coming time..You can look Chinese most important projects when it comes proven and mass production ready products.. J-10,JF17,J11/15/16 ..all of them are built on industry base formed with production of old Soviet aircrafts ..and their projects were not developed fast..Just use J-10..project can be tracked 35+ years in past...it is developed using bunch of Chinese and foreign tech...but even on first look on J-10 or JF-17 Soviet MIG-21 design is clear...remove nose and air intakes and you will not be able to tell is it F-7 or J-10...Israel lavi used F-16 as base..for it design but Chinese j10 was adopted for Chinese avio-industry of that time,they could ,at this way,implement Lavi technology without radical changes in their existing production.. Well,no one any more,except Chinese them self ,know what technologies they used for it but it is mix of everything.I used these examples from China because,considering Iran position and air force position in defense strategy, we are maybe expecting more than Iran can afford... I know it can always be better but I personally still don't expect any Iranian aircraft as replacement for air force backbone fleet.Iran versions will probably enter slowly in air force but I'm expecting foreign aircrafts to be purchased next year(I believe they already made or negotiate deal) and I think Iran will use this purchase to boost domestic industry with joint production or transfer of technology...Iranians were always getting best aircrafts of that time...from getting brand new most advanced and expensive aircraft of that time F14 ,been only country which got Russian aircrafts mig-29 from Soviet air force(Iran got same mig-29 as Russian/Soviet airforce)..now also got s-300pmu2 version which is developed after s-400 and include same technology(according to Russians they did it because they want it to share same units and tech as many as it can with s400 and s500,and new pmu2 is only variant that can be upgraded to s400 without replecing any existing hrdware,with only adding new components). So,Iran is not easy customers, they have experience with best weapons systems of it's time and will seek same now,so I'm not expecting it will be (or maybe already did)easy negotiations but I'm sure they will try to get best possible one type of air superiority and multirole fighters.Iran is huge,they will always maintain one huge twin engine aircrafts fleet with huge range and payload.I think this fact will be most problematic... Russians(as most obvious option for this type) will try to not angry Israel and west by providing long range platform,but also because of their interest to curb Iranian long range offensive power projection and they would probably try to sell platform that is more dependant and less offensive capable.
Iran is neutral player and Russians are not Iran strategic ally even they share many interests, Chinese on other hand are much better for Iran when it comes to tech transfers but they have less to share .Well,I may be wrong...this is just something it looks like to me as logic path,but we should remember that for most Iranian projects we didn't know anything about till we saw it..even imported things...no one ever mentioned ra'ad air defense nor Sayyad air defense systems..and bunch of other till we saw it.So we never know what is building now..
I'm not considering f-313 f14 replacement,that is whole point...it is almost without a2a capability..... if you attach two r73 it is waste of r-73....you can't fight in a2a battle by looking throughout cockpit glass...you need radar even if you will not use radar guided missiles...Aircrafts without radar mostly carry two r60 for self defence in visual range...F-5 has radar,even without engagement mode still it is used to track and intercept aircraft... Aircraft without radar has to be guided by other aircraft or ground support... Even if Iran develop IRST that could use longer range IR missiles still aircraft without radar is near useless since it is blind ...That is why aircrafts without radar are not considered capable for any a2a role and missiles they carry are for self defence... I'm not saying Iran will not maybe develop different larger version for some a2a role..but this current version is just what they say it is...Attack aircraft probably designed for specific role,conventional designed aircrafts can't fly at near subsonic speed at extremely low altitude for long time...first there is huge resistance aircraft experience and second, noise is huge and it burns fuel like hell..pilots flying at 500ft can maybe safely go up to 1.10-1.20 on flat terrain......above water this is even worse...just look how it look when some aircraft fly few meters above sea even at low speed..these water disturbances can also be detected..I think,this aircraft is designed with that in mind..this design is very good for low altitude high speed.it can carry two small anti-ship missiles in internal bay and penetrate without been detected...very fast and at extremely low altitude, considering threat from sea and also possibility of new tanker war...it is logic to consider this.But a2a role,even many people push this,is not something I see...and least not without major changes,even you are correct regarding sharing data with f-313.But aircrafts with a2a(don't confuse self defence, even su25 carry two r60)can't depend on other aircraft or ground support as main feature...those are good additional features that is mostly used to bring aircraft in to range of own radar or to guide pilot so it can aprouch enemy without been detected by using routes outside of enemy radar detection angle..Even f5 has radar,even it doesn't use it for engagement... In any a2a role you are depending on aircraft radar...not only search and detection.l but also to ping,identity,calculate precise range...pilots don't have much time in a2a battle,especially in visual and medium ranges..of course you can use anything for a2a role in emergency but I think we will see something different in this role very soon...and for air superiority fighter,I think Iran will buy some aircraft for this role while pushing domestic projects for advanced trainer/cas role and two more projects to boost domestic avio-industry.As I see Iran can produce avionics and weapons pack but problem is good engine(well only few countries don't struggle here),and as soon they resolve this issue,which is probably related for some rare alloys and materials,rest will not be issue...But I will repeat once again,in 2000(when Iran had experience with ARH a2a missiles and advanced tech)Chinese only BVR capable aircrafts were su-27,around 100 ..and only bvr missile was r27...Their fleet muscle were MIG-19/21 derivatives and their every airforce strategy was based on usage of huge number of aircrafts...If I told anyone in that time that China will have J-10,JF17...etc projects in 8-10 years,I would be considered idiot or CEO of communist party propaganda department.. And I think I can even find some of my posts from that time about China and Iran military..even most boards of that time are gone..will try to pull some...My point is,hardest point in avio-industry is industrialization and starting industry level production... It doesn't matter products are not state of the art now..Iran is already made important brake through and we should expect much more in coming time..You can look Chinese most important projects when it comes proven and mass production ready products.. J-10,JF17,J11/15/16 ..all of them are built on industry base formed with production of old Soviet aircrafts ..and their projects were not developed fast..Just use J-10..project can be tracked 35+ years in past...it is developed using bunch of Chinese and foreign tech...but even on first look on J-10 or JF-17 Soviet MIG-21 design is clear...remove nose and air intakes and you will not be able to tell is it F-7 or J-10...Israel lavi used F-16 as base..for it design but Chinese j10 was adopted for Chinese avio-industry of that time,they could ,at this way,implement Lavi technology without radical changes in their existing production.. Well,no one any more,except Chinese them self ,know what technologies they used for it but it is mix of everything.I used these examples from China because,considering Iran position and air force position in defense strategy, we are maybe expecting more than Iran can afford... I know it can always be better but I personally still don't expect any Iranian aircraft as replacement for air force backbone fleet.Iran versions will probably enter slowly in air force but I'm expecting foreign aircrafts to be purchased next year(I believe they already made or negotiate deal) and I think Iran will use this purchase to boost domestic industry with joint production or transfer of technology...Iranians were always getting best aircrafts of that time...from getting brand new most advanced and expensive aircraft of that time F14 ,been only country which got Russian aircrafts mig-29 from Soviet air force(Iran got same mig-29 as Russian/Soviet airforce)..now also got s-300pmu2 version which is developed after s-400 and include same technology(according to Russians they did it because they want it to share same units and tech as many as it can with s400 and s500,and new pmu2 is only variant that can be upgraded to s400 without replecing any existing hrdware,with only adding new components). So,Iran is not easy customers, they have experience with best weapons systems of it's time and will seek same now,so I'm not expecting it will be (or maybe already did)easy negotiations but I'm sure they will try to get best possible one type of air superiority and multirole fighters.Iran is huge,they will always maintain one huge twin engine aircrafts fleet with huge range and payload.I think this fact will be most problematic... Russians(as most obvious option for this type) will try to not angry Israel and west by providing long range platform,but also because of their interest to curb Iranian long range offensive power projection and they would probably try to sell platform that is more dependant and less offensive capable.
Iran is neutral player and Russians are not Iran strategic ally even they share many interests, Chinese on other hand are much better for Iran when it comes to tech transfers but they have less to share .Well,I may be wrong...this is just something it looks like to me as logic path,but we should remember that for most Iranian projects we didn't know anything about till we saw it..even imported things...no one ever mentioned ra'ad air defense nor Sayyad air defense systems..and bunch of other till we saw it.So we never know what is building now..
