IRIAF | News and Discussions

[PeeD]

An article on China and engines. Some flaws in it, but overall it delivers the message:

https://www.inkstonenews.com/tech/i...d-commercial-aircraft-engines/article/3002672

People must understand this first. And it must be understood no working engine = no fighter. Iran is not going to buy engines.

The RD-33 can be mastered if the design is mastered. In materials one hurdle are titanium fanblades, that is a new field for Iran. In the more critical hot turbine section, MAPNA has sufficient experience with necessary superalloys to do it (RD-33 is 70's tech.).
But the biggest hurdle is mastering the design. Without that some parts will always wear-out faster than expected and cause failure.

One can only thank the people that set up MAPNA in order to be able to produce 70's level fighter turbine vanes, 20-30 years later. Strategic planning.

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran built a flying wing because they captured one. You think Iran would have a flying wing design today at this point in time if it weren’t for RQ-170? The answer is a resounding no. RQ-170 jumpstarted Iran’s stealth drone program and engine tech.

So I’m sorry but waiting for a fighter to come in 10-15 years and equipping it with jet engines by that time that will be over 60 years old (RD-33) is a joke.

Without TOT of recent modern jet engine, Iran’s fighter program will go nowhere.

It’s been over 20 years and Iran’s long range BMs still use No-Dong engines from the Soviet era (minus limited production Sejil and recently introduced Khorramshahr).

So for people expecting Iran to jump from J-85 to AL-31 series engines by itself, it’s not going to happen.

China had ToT of the best soviet planes, today has one of the biggest military budgets in world history, a massive arms espionage circle that encompasses the globe, wide access to leading tech, and a decades long technological headstart on Iran. And yet it currently lags Russia/US by at least decade in engine tech.

Let’s be honest about Iran, their resiliency under sanctions is nothing short of commendable. The improvement of armed forces is also extraordinary. But there is a difference between acknowledging improvement and then there is hubris in expecting a fantasy.

Go to Iran and see the government struggle to build a highway to Shomal for decades. See how a brand new building gets demolished by a earthquake but a 30 year old one stands. Meanwhile China built cities and airports overnight.

So Let’s not act like Iran is some great technological power. It’s economy and infaatructure is largely the fault of the ineptitude of its government and that eventually extends to armed forces. Because if you can’t keep one part of your house in order then that means the whole house is not in order.

So don’t be fooled by 1970’s Mowj frigates that got demolished in Operation Praying Mantis (when they were considered leading technology) and don’t be fooled by these F-5 iterations.

When it comes to large offensive systems, Iran is still decades away from the leading powers. And tinkering with 1970’s technology is just going to keep Iran lagging behind.

Iran needs to get its hand on TOT either through deals, blackmarket, military espionage, etc. because that is the way progresses forward. Unless you want to wait for an F-22 to crash land in Iran intact.

 

[PeeD]

Iran needs following things:

A "heavy" thrust class engines for its emerging drone programs and a potential manned fighter for the IRIAF to keep it alive.

That engine must deliver following:
- Certain thrust output
- Certain price
- Certain TBO
- Certain SFC

If those goals are met with a RD-33 clone then everything is fine.

That would certainly be the greatest technological hurdle and feat Iran would have achieved in technology and engineering, no matter if the origins of the RD-33 are in the 60's or not.

You can reverse engineer many things but advanced jet engines are not among them. Materials are one issue and getting a working design another. Without blueprints you basally have to re-engineer the whole engine.

Was this complicated work worth it for Iran in the past? No.
It might be now after the industry grew with the liquid fuel rocket motors and companies like MAPNA.
Now, today it might be worth to re-engineer the RD-33 with efforts that can justify it.
In the past, many other technologies are easier to master and delivered better capability.

China is building jet engines since the 60's, where Iran didn't even build a Peykan engine yet. Still they would have been the happiest people on the planet if the would have been able to copy a RD-33 by the late 2000's (heck even just a few years ago)...
This is the situation people have to understand.
Its absolutely no joke, its the highest field in engineering.

Honestly, and I know some things about this, I don't believe Iran could copy the RD-33. It's a extremely difficult thing to achieve without all the original documents of the inventors.
If they would manage it, the doors for manned fighters, drones and bombers would open up.
Two RD-33, with the electrical fan of the RQ-170 engine, could power a manned bomber variant of the RQ-170 e.g.
I rather think the path is the J90: A whole new design of lower thrust.

 

[Mithridates]

IRGCAF su-22 striker:
1- simorgh/bl 755 cluster bumb
2- yasin GPS guided bomb
3- bina semi-active laser guided missile

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guy this dude that i constantly share his posts, is AF pilot and what i have said till now i quoted his words. i suggest you to follow him and ask directly.

IRIAF f-5 with air refueling probe:

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[Mithridates]

mirage f-1

seems like pl-7s is our new standard short range missile.

 

[sanel1412]

Image of F-5 with PL-7 is very old..Mirage with PL-7 is newer...I remeber this F-5 with pl-7 from old IMF days and I have it in my archive for years but thanks to your post I remeber I had also this one..IRIAF F-4 full load of PL-7.
EDIT,this is better resolution (from instagram profile you post)
By US norms(Iran air force also use same convention)blue is training round but by Chinese convention orange is training round(no warhead)

 

[mohsen]

corruption in army air force
A 29 years old kid who can't identity his right from left hand, has become the head of overhaul unite, as if there was no other more experienced people in this unite!
And they don't mind to abandon all of secrecy in airforce to show him off, I bet he is a relative to one of commanders.

 

[sanel1412]

corruption in army air force
A 29 years old kid who can't identity his right from left hand, has become the head of overhaul unite, as if there was no other more experienced people in this unite!
And they don't mind to abandon all of secrecy in airforce to show him off, I bet he is a relative to one of commanders.

Can you be more specific,do you reffer to air force officer who speak at beginning of this video?I don't know how His qualification but 29 year old person in military is not kid,soldiers can serve up to 35 years while higher officers serve more..So ...with 29 years He should have 11-12 years of service...Considering how old(or better say young) Iranian population is,it is not strange to see young officers with higher ranks and only that fact doesn't mean anything..but don't be confused..my country is built whole military by Nato standards and we are we are EU membership candidate and almost Nato candidate(already implemented all standards just waiting for politic and birocracy to approve it)but still there is much coruption and mostly political and family relation is more important than anything else.But as I said,if He is young it doesn't mean He is not good and educated(except if you know him personally and know something... that is other thing).As I see, He has 3 stars,it should be 1st lieutenant and that is higher rank...this is nothing unusual.Again,If you know him and you know something that is completly other thing,I'm just speaking generally.

 

[Hack-Hook]

corruption in army air force
A 29 years old kid who can't identity his right from left hand, has become the head of overhaul unite, as if there was no other more experienced people in this unite!
And they don't mind to abandon all of secrecy in airforce to show him off, I bet he is a relative to one of commanders.

Well weren't kids as young and younger that were commander in IRGC at the time of war.
If your reservation against him is his young age I wonder a young one who believe we can wouldnt be better than an older one with we can't do it mindset.

 

[mohsen]

Well weren't kids as young and younger that were commander in IRGC at the time of war.
If your reservation against him is his young age I wonder a young one who believe we can wouldnt be better than an older one with we can't do it mindset.

IRGC was built by those kids, it's not like they built it and then withdrew to younger ones a decade later!
And who has been overhauling these airplanes during these years, the not believers?!

Can you be more specific,do you reffer to air force officer who speak at beginning of this video?I don't know how His qualification but 29 year old person in military is not kid,soldiers can serve up to 35 years while higher officers serve more..So ...with 29 years He should have 11-12 years of service...Considering how old(or better say young) Iranian population is,it is not strange to see young officers with higher ranks and only that fact doesn't mean anything..but don't be confused..my country is built whole military by Nato standards and we are we are EU membership candidate and almost Nato candidate(already implemented all standards just waiting for politic and birocracy to approve it)but still there is much coruption and mostly political and family relation is more important than anything else.But as I said,if He is young it doesn't mean He is not good and educated(except if you know him personally and know something... that is other thing).As I see, He has 3 stars,it should be 1st lieutenant and that is higher rank...this is nothing unusual.Again,If you know him and you know something that is completly other thing,I'm just speaking generally.

Since they receive one promote every 4 years, and the fact that officers usually start with 2 stars, then you can see that in no way he could have served more than 7 years.

 

[sahureka2]

IRGC was built by those kids, it's not like they built it and then withdrew to younger ones a decade later!
And who has been overhauling these airplanes during these years, the not believers?!


Since they receive one promote every 4 years, and the fact that officers usually start with 2 stars, then you can see that in no way he could have served more than 7 years.

my hypothesis, nobody is born already specialized, probably is, they are, all graduated in aeronautical engineering and it is possible that later they specialized in their own country or in some foreign country (China!?) to operate on the F-7.
Only 3 stars, therefore few years of service in the armed forces, possible, but it is also possible that he enlisted when he had already graduated or specialized and had the third star for merits in service.
therefore it is difficult to comment without knowing the situation personally.

They are all guys who are working on the F-7, but I am convinced that the old technicians are supervising the work;
In any case, the generational change must occur otherwise the entire maintenance chain would be blocked when the older ones are no longer in a position to work.

question the military with 3 stars has some ribbons on the chest, it would be interesting to know the meaning of each of them

 

[aryobarzan]

corruption in army air force
A 29 years old kid who can't identity his right from left hand, has become the head of overhaul unite, as if there was no other more experienced people in this unite!
And they don't mind to abandon all of secrecy in airforce to show him off, I bet he is a relative to one of commanders.

You just accused a member of Iranian armed forces with Incompetence and the Air Force with nepotism . These are serious charges you are leveling against a person and an organisation. So my question to you is ...DO YOU HAVE PROOF.. On what basis do you make these accusation...Now that you made these accusation the burden of proof is on you..looking forward to see your evidence.

 

[Hack-Hook]

IRGC was built by those kids, it's not like they built it and then withdrew to younger ones a decade later!
And who has been overhauling these airplanes during these years, the not believers?!

Well that's not the point, once we trusted in younger generation and we get result . why not trust them again. Don't you think it's time that one generation give way for the newer generation.
By the way, was he not one of the persons who did the overhaul on those airplanes.

 

[sahureka2]

even the elderly technicians and aeronautical engineers who operate today on IRIAF aircraft, were in 1979 young technicians and engineers.
it is impossible to block the clock of life, the wheel continues to turn inexorably, it has been possible to lengthen life prospects and the quality of life, today those who once considered themselves old can safely indicate them as middle-aged men, but always young people must be prepared who must then take over.
There is a generational change in all fields, a young man today is born in a world where technology has reached a very high level, therefore to the mind already open to receive these inputs, I instead am of the past generation that used a machine to writing, the calculations made by hand with the help of the calculator and the models made them in chalk and not with the 3D printer, I had to update myself, but I admit that I had many difficulties to do so.
Therefore yes, the experience of us elders is very important, but this experience must not die with us, but we must pour it out to the new generations that will make good use of it, the new generations, rightly, will surely add much more.

 

[mohsen]

You just accused a member of Iranian armed forces with Incompetence and the Air Force with nepotism . These are serious charges you are leveling against a person and an organisation. So my question to you is ...DO YOU HAVE PROOF.. On what basis do you make these accusation...Now that you made these accusation the burden of proof is on you..looking forward to see your evidence.

Actually placing a kid in that position is the proof itself, it means the rest of elder officers in air force were all Incompetence, it's an insult to all elder officers in airforce.
Your logic is the same as the rest of good gen Aghazadeha, who claim without theme we wouldn't survive.

even the elderly technicians and aeronautical engineers who operate today on IRIAF aircraft, were in 1979 young technicians and engineers.
it is impossible to block the clock of life, the wheel continues to turn inexorably, it has been possible to lengthen life prospects and the quality of life, today those who once considered themselves old can safely indicate them as middle-aged men, but always young people must be prepared who must then take over.
There is a generational change in all fields, a young man today is born in a world where technology has reached a very high level, therefore to the mind already open to receive these inputs, I instead am of the past generation that used a machine to writing, the calculations made by hand with the help of the calculator and the models made them in chalk and not with the 3D printer, I had to update myself, but I admit that I had many difficulties to do so.
Therefore yes, the experience of us elders is very important, but this experience must not die with us, but we must pour it out to the new generations that will make good use of it, the new generations, rightly, will surely add much more.

A retiring personnel should be replaced with someone who has served atleast for 15 or 20 years, not a newbie.
Otherwise system is flawed.