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Babak T writing that Russia offered Su-27SM3 with delivering in this year instead Su-35, however it's looks like as absolutely unreliable. First - it's a open violation of UN sanctions that are in force until 2020. Second - Su-27SM3 it's nonexport version for Russian AF. There were manufactured only 12 such new planes in 2011 year + undergoing upgrade old versions of Su-27 in Su-27SM3.
 
Yes Yes cough... Put any one of these aging planes against the European, American, Israeli, Saudi, UAE, Russian, or Chinese platforms and let's see if you still have something stuck in your throat. Do you seriously think IRI's AF is a match against any of the Arab countries? Let's be real here: The Arab countries spend far more on their AF than IRI can ever hope for.
I am not trying to belittle IRI, but from time to time one needs a dose of reality: IRI has no AF... yes it has a better AF than Afghanistan, but to even hint that it's a match against Israel, SA, UAE (the very counties that are challenging IRI for regional supremacy) is ridiculous.
And before IRI's advocates go off on another name calling, vulgar rant about how "un-informed" I am, remember this adage: Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom.
I was disproving your absolute claim that Russia and China don't sell planes to Iran. They did it in the 1990s and could do it again.
 
I was disproving your absolute claim that Russia and China don't sell planes to Iran. They did it in the 1990s and could do it again.

The fact you compare the geopolitical climate for Iran in 1990's to today is puzzling.

Fact is Iran wasnt even a significant regional power in the 90's. It was a country recovering from a brutal war.

The Soviet Union had just dissolved and there was a fire sale on arms. They were desperate for cash. They were willing to sell to anyone.

But yet even when Iran was barely a threat, the US still put pressure on Russia and China for arms deals made with iran in the 90's.

Several people in the Iranian military are critical of the establishment for not BUYING more during the early to mid 90's when Iran had a chance to procure significant arms (subs, strategic long range bombers etc)

Compare that today and it's hard to see that Russia and China will ever engage Iran seriously in any significant offensive arms deal. China is not desperate for Cash and has other clients. US can leverage South China Sea dispute to put pressure on China.

Russia is not desperate for cash and has other clients. It will use Iran as leverage for its more important interest which is sanctions and Crimea/Ukraine situation.

Furthermore, Iran doesn't have enough cash to make any mega arms deals. So why would China and Russia put their neck out for some small arms deals?

If anyone thinks that the arms embargo is going to easily come off they are naive.
 
The fact you compare the geopolitical climate for Iran in 1990's to today is puzzling.

Fact is Iran wasnt even a significant regional power in the 90's. It was a country recovering from a brutal war.

The Soviet Union had just dissolved and there was a fire sale on arms. They were desperate for cash. They were willing to sell to anyone.

But yet even when Iran was barely a threat, the US still put pressure on Russia and China for arms deals made with iran in the 90's.

Several people in the Iranian military are critical of the establishment for not BUYING more during the early to mid 90's when Iran had a chance to procure significant arms (subs, strategic long range bombers etc)

Compare that today and it's hard to see that Russia and China will ever engage Iran seriously in any significant offensive arms deal. China is not desperate for Cash and has other clients. US can leverage South China Sea dispute to put pressure on China.

Russia is not desperate for cash and has other clients. It will use Iran as leverage for its more important interest which is sanctions and Crimea/Ukraine situation.

Furthermore, Iran doesn't have enough cash to make any mega arms deals. So why would China and Russia put their neck out for some small arms deals?

If anyone thinks that the arms embargo is going to easily come off they are naive.

I get it, the situation is different now than in the 90s. But I was only correcting an incorrect statement.
 
@AmirPatriot
چرا خواب رو جوری بهش می دین که سو استفاد کنه و بهت حتی تیکه هم بندازه؟
 
The fact you compare the geopolitical climate for Iran in 1990's to today is puzzling.

Fact is Iran wasnt even a significant regional power in the 90's. It was a country recovering from a brutal war.

The Soviet Union had just dissolved and there was a fire sale on arms. They were desperate for cash. They were willing to sell to anyone.

But yet even when Iran was barely a threat, the US still put pressure on Russia and China for arms deals made with iran in the 90's.

Several people in the Iranian military are critical of the establishment for not BUYING more during the early to mid 90's when Iran had a chance to procure significant arms (subs, strategic long range bombers etc)

Compare that today and it's hard to see that Russia and China will ever engage Iran seriously in any significant offensive arms deal. China is not desperate for Cash and has other clients. US can leverage South China Sea dispute to put pressure on China.

Russia is not desperate for cash and has other clients. It will use Iran as leverage for its more important interest which is sanctions and Crimea/Ukraine situation.

Furthermore, Iran doesn't have enough cash to make any mega arms deals. So why would China and Russia put their neck out for some small arms deals?

If anyone thinks that the arms embargo is going to easily come off they are naive.


The person that's naïve is you!
In the 90's Iran had already started it's weapons industry!

And don't confuse propaganda created to sell more arms to the Saudi's as FACT'S! And even in the 90's Iran was more after Technology Transfers & Co-production then purchasing weapons because it goes against Iran's defense doctrine!

Except for limited purchases for reverse engineering in the 90's Iran concluded that for specific weapons Iran would require foreign assistance & foreign weapons like Fighter Jets, Heavy Helicopters(10+ passengers), Heavy Submarines
But the problem with those type of weapons is that after a year or two (depending on the weapon) unless your getting continued foreign assistance and parts they will be useless so Iran made a limited purchase & worked towards building parts & learning how to maintain them inside the country! So a large purchase without the ability to maintain, equip & upgrade them would have just created a large junk yard nothing more!

And it was in the 90's & Iran's experience in the 80's that Iran choose to build it's defense doctrine around weapons they can produce & maintain themselves!

Right now there is a LAW passed by the Parliament prohibiting the purchase of "Fighter Jets" unless they foreign country was to at the very least agree to co-produced inside Iran!


So this idea that Iran going around knocking on doors and desperate and waiting to buy a bunch of fighter jets is nothing but a delusion! The reality is that Iran will ONLY ARGEE to buy them if the other side agrees on Co-production & gives Iran access to the weapons system!

Now US Generals & weapons dealers can go to the UAE and hype up the UAE Air Force & rant about how they have a more powerful Air Force than Iran! BUT at the end of the day they all know that even if the UAE had 500 F-35's it's wouldn't matter because Iran can at the end of the day wipe out the entire UAE Military within hours!

Why would Iran pay $150 Million USD for a Su-30 (Gear, weapons, parts,...) when with the cost of a single fighter they can drop 150 missiles or more on an Air Base, take out the enemy's Air Force & Air Defense & then use their 70's era Air Force (that they can maintain & build weapons for) plus Iranian built UCAV to take out the rest?

And yes Iran has showed interest in Co-Producing the Su-30 but due to Iran's experience in the 80's Iran is not going to simply buy that Aircraft without having access to it's weapons systems & the permission to take the Aircraft apart and produce their own spar parts!

Instead Iran will continue to invest in building it's own Jet Powered UAV's with Air-Air capabilities to be used as crude interceptors! Especially with the proliferation of Stealth Aircraft!
It's simple today Early Warning Systems can pick up stealth aircraft but since they can't detect the altitude they can't lock on so you equip a stealth jet powered UCAV with a small RCS with an IRST & IR Weapons flying at 800kph & you send two towards that heading one flying at low altitude(1000ft) one at high(15,000-20,000ft) you can control them from the ground up to 200km away but if jammed you program them to automatically detect and take out anything that doesn't have friendly IR signature once they get to that general area

Modern IR Air-Air missiles don't require you to point the nose directly at the Aircraft making it easier for UAV's to take on this task!

The UAV may be very expensive and only good for defensive purposes over your own boarder but at the end of the day it will be far cheaper than buying and operating a bunch of Su-30's that will never have a chance against an F-22
At least with the UAV you can overwhelm them with numbers because they are far cheaper and just because YOU haven't seen such a UAV in Iran it doesn't mean it's not there!
 
I will get a lot of flak from fellow countrymen for saying this but I choose to be a realist.

IRIAF has suffered less because of sanctions compared to the damage that came from internal politics of IRI post Nojeh Coup some 37 years ago. Generation of soldiers in our conventional military has changed since then but majority of the mullahs from that time are still alive and active in the govt. They would never let a conventional military arm to develop to the point that it can parallel their own military arm called the IRGC.

Do you guys seriously believe that IRI with 19th largest foreign reserves, engaged in 3 proxy wars, can't afford 120-150 4+ jets or a TOT for such thing ? that's a lie created by apologists and idiots who want to bury their heads in ground rather than face reality.

Khomeini era Mullahs have done exceptionally well. They have guarded our country, they have destroyed and taken the fight to our enemies through military and political maneuvering but they have always been doubtful of our conventional armed forces. This goes back actually, as soon as war stopped, there were orders for 148 Mig-29 and high numbers of Su-24 out of which only 22 came. So there was need that was not fulfilled. What did Tehran do ? nothing ... In late 90s there was option for high numbers (may be up-to 10-12 squadrons) of Mirage F-1C (or customized up-gradated version upto Spanish M standard). What became of it ? Nothing ... At-least an investment in TOT would have made sense may be with china (in LCA FC-1 and MRCA FC-20). Almost every serious regional country has TOT plants for fourth generation fighters except for IRI because there is no will and there has never been any. Common arguments are like Russians do not sell, Chinese planes are not liked by IRIAF, Western fighters are out of reach ? Chinese fighters are not liked by IRIAF, they must be hell excited for ex Vietnamese F-5EF rebuilt/welded steel mutants called Saeghe.

All this when recently lots of money was wasted on old bomb trucks Su-22 to equip IRGC-AF.

I personally believe that IRIAF should be merged with IRGC-AF under command of govt. trusted IRGC General so that this doubtful mentality can cease to exist and Iran can again have a glorious AF like it always had. Do not forget It was IRIAF that failed baathists in 80s war. We downed 159 baathists jets using our front line fighter while losing just 3 of ours. Why ? Because we had that machine in our hands. Now we have nothing. I like Mullahs, I like Shah ... I don't care who runs Tehran, I just want Iran to be safe.

yes our AD is getting stronger, our Missile force can knock teeth out regionally ... but we cant ignore our AF and that is a fact. Our regional alliance has won Syrian and Iraqi battles because of air power. What if Kremlin would have decided otherwise .... ?
 
I will get a lot of flak from fellow countrymen for saying this but I choose to be a realist.

IRIAF has suffered less because of sanctions compared to the damage that came from internal politics of IRI post Nojeh Coup some 37 years ago. Generation of soldiers in our conventional military has changed since then but majority of the mullahs from that time are still alive and active in the govt. They would never let a conventional military arm to develop to the point that it can parallel their own military arm called the IRGC.

Do you guys seriously believe that IRI with 19th largest foreign reserves, engaged in 3 proxy wars, can't afford 120-150 4+ jets or a TOT for such thing ? that's a lie created by apologists and idiots who want to bury their heads in ground rather than face reality.

Khomeini era Mullahs have done exceptionally well. They have guarded our country, they have destroyed and taken the fight to our enemies through military and political maneuvering but they have always been doubtful of our conventional armed forces. This goes back actually, as soon as war stopped, there were orders for 148 Mig-29 and high numbers of Su-24 out of which only 22 came. So there was need that was not fulfilled. What did Tehran do ? nothing ... In late 90s there was option for high numbers (may be up-to 10-12 squadrons) of Mirage F-1C (or customized up-gradated version upto Spanish M standard). What became of it ? Nothing ... At-least an investment in TOT would have made sense may be with china (in LCA FC-1 and MRCA FC-20). Almost every serious regional country has TOT plants for fourth generation fighters except for IRI because there is no will and there has never been any. Common arguments are like Russians do not sell, Chinese planes are not liked by IRIAF, Western fighters are out of reach ? Chinese fighters are not liked by IRIAF, they must be hell excited for ex Vietnamese F-5EF rebuilt/welded steel mutants called Saeghe.

All this when recently lots of money was wasted on old bomb trucks Su-22 to equip IRGC-AF.

I personally believe that IRIAF should be merged with IRGC-AF under command of govt. trusted IRGC General so that this doubtful mentality can cease to exist and Iran can again have a glorious AF like it always had. Do not forget It was IRIAF that failed baathists in 80s war. We downed 159 baathists jets using our front line fighter while losing just 3 of ours. Why ? Because we had that machine in our hands. Now we have nothing. I like Mullahs, I like Shah ... I don't care who runs Tehran, I just want Iran to be safe.

yes our AD is getting stronger, our Missile force can knock teeth out regionally ... but we cant ignore our AF and that is a fact. Our regional alliance has won Syrian and Iraqi battles because of air power. What if Kremlin would have decided otherwise .... ?

You brought up a lot of valid points. I have one question for you. If air force is to be neglected, the. why invest in the F313?
 
Airpower is good for low intensity warfare and there UAVs are the future. The resource difference is magnitudes. Some info:
 

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Campare this :
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To this :
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This is the interesting part :
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Zing zing
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You brought up a lot of valid points. I have one question for you. If air force is to be neglected, the. why invest in the F313?

No one knows future but for now I would be inclined to call Q-313 as an amalgam of 1) Propaganda 2) Academic Utopia 3) Some reality from Shafagh experience.

Azarakhsh, Saeghe, Q-313 are all in same category of aspiring projects gone to trash (unless Q-313 actually flies). Shafagh on the other hand was a real project. How do I know that ? ... because real money+ foreign technical help + foreign procurement + Local academic research was involved. Shafagh was a novel concept that came from Soviet designer Latvian born Fatedin Mukhamedov who envisioned circular disc like fuselages with large LERX to be highly maneuverable and stealthy designs. I guess he patented this large LERX design back in early 90s. Shafagh's model was first showed back in mid 90s in Dubai air show. There was real work going in Malek Ashtar University where Russian engineers were collaborating with local ones. Avionics suite was supposed to come from Russia. Jet was supposed to powered by actual Klimov RD-2000 sophisticated nonburning turbofans. It passed wind tunnel tests too. This could have become Iranian Yak-130 with appreciable combat capability ... and the story doesn't stop here. There was supposed to be a fighter version of this aircraft. Among all the combat jet projects that started in Iran, Shafagh as of today was the real most.

One can go on and say where are the blue prints ? what became of that training and gaining of information from Experienced Russian engineers who came to Iran in 1990s. Even failed projects yield something out. If there is any reality to Qaher-313 than it must have some background from Shafagh designs, otherwise i see no future of this project.
 

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