IRIAF | News and Discussions

[drmeson]

What do you guys think about my previous post talking about AGM-122 Sidearm?

I am sure Iran has the capability to transform the Aim-9 into Sidearms, Iran have some experience in ARM, in ballistic missiles, Hormuz-2 anti-radiation

US made something creative, an AIM-9 turned into an ARM air to ground missile, mounted on SuperCobras with a range of 16km. I am sure more feature could be added into that kind of helicopter missiles type, loitering munition, something like 358 launched from helicopter

AGM-122 Sidearm

View attachment 934122
View attachment 934121

There is already an AIM-9J-derived A2G missile that we saw on Karrar

 

[tsunset]

And what radar/radiation source would Iran be targeting in a 20KM radius in case of warfare? Land invasion of iran is borderline 0% of happening.

I don’t see the use case for this missile for Iran vs an invader focused military (USA). I like radiation missiles, but in CM format with long range (500-1000KM). Mostly against Centcom in PGGC and US navy.

If Iran needs to do a quick strike on some groups having cheap radar air-defense, make the helicopter have a tool to deal with them, make the Cobras able to defend themselves against their biggest threats, if a strike is needed on Afghanistan, removing threats and start the CAS with Cobras along air support (Su-35 or F-5 armed with precision bombs), as a possible retaliation method.

This could make the Cobra not being an aerial asset that is just waiting to get shot down by a MANPADS or some SZU spaag

A CM format with anti radiation would be very useful in some swarms to combat air-defense on PGCs (likely Bahrein because the US have the fleet there), having a precise anti-radiation weapons, Paveh anti radiation versions combined with Hormuz-2 BM, allows for a massive saturation strike and would damage a warship way more than let's say Ghadir. Let alone an air-launched ARM cruise missile, Iran is able to fit cruise missiles on its F-4s

I am confident that Iran can get more range than 20, this concept from the US dates from the cold war, they stopped it because of the way more reliable HARM but the concept is very creative, not forcibly like Sidearm, but Aim-9 missiles could be turned into heliborne ARM missiles, more mix of weapons, both for Cobras defending themselves and striking (with the hellfire like missile, don't remember it's name, Ghadr i think)

To be honest i'm surprised Iran didn't already made a anti-radiation CM at least, or maybe they are but not in public.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

It's completely terrible what we can read here in this sanction

It is said here that Iran manufactures the Kowsar in number of 6 per year but how is it possible to say that? How do you manage to be so distorted in your way of thinking?

We see from the reports and photos that Iran is building the Kowsar planes in batches of 12 in a single factory. You were all surprised to see so many drones, missiles in underground shelters but the day will come when they will reveal that they have a lot more aircraft built than you think. It's simple logic

And how do you declare that HESA has a low budget? It's completely wrong, totally wrong and completely impossible. It's disturbing how little you have of intuition and a very limited overview. It shows once again that one can be very intellectual but very limited in terms of awareness of things.

Please, I hope you don't believe Iran's military budget is the one featured on globalfirepower? Please pity.

 

[sahureka2]

I apologize in advance for this article because not directly concerning the IRIAF it can be considered off topic, but it can be interesting to understand if even the most modern export SU-35s can have similar characteristics.
How Su-30SM has intercepted the F-35: “He came almost out of nowhere”
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2023/06/...epted-the-f-35-he-came-almost-out-of-nowhere/

 

[tsunset]

I apologize in advance for this article because not directly concerning the IRIAF it can be considered off topic, but it can be interesting to understand if even the most modern export SU-35s can have similar characteristics.
How Su-30SM has intercepted the F-35: “He came almost out of nowhere”
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2023/06/...epted-the-f-35-he-came-almost-out-of-nowhere/

Well Russian jamming systems are something fascinating but not a lot of information is given and no one knows the details of incidents, for the USS Donald Cook incident, it could have been the warship itself malfunctioning or a real OG jamming from Russia

I believe Iran have some Krashukas (4?) since not a long time, for the RQ incident, maybe Russian jamming system have been used but it was in 2011

The fantasy of some people thinking F-35 could enter Russian airspace without being detected or jammed at all is probably close to none

Iran took pages out of the book, first is to see if any delivery happens in 6 months, if Russia modified them for Iran specially instead of Egypt standards, if Russia is willing maybe to sell some R-37 missiles or ToT, which i doubt but who knows

 

[drmeson]

I apologize in advance for this article because not directly concerning the IRIAF it can be considered off topic, but it can be interesting to understand if even the most modern export SU-35s can have similar characteristics.
How Su-30SM has intercepted the F-35: “He came almost out of nowhere”
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2023/06/...epted-the-f-35-he-came-almost-out-of-nowhere/

Shows us how important the e-warfare game is in modern combat. IRIAF should invest heavily in creating a more efficient Gripen-E- tyle e-warfare suite for Kowsar-II. Currently, the plane has ECM + e-warfare pods, jammers, TDL, which is not bad but its not very good either.

 

[TheImmortal]

I apologize in advance for this article because not directly concerning the IRIAF it can be considered off topic, but it can be interesting to understand if even the most modern export SU-35s can have similar characteristics.
How Su-30SM has intercepted the F-35: “He came almost out of nowhere”
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2023/06/...epted-the-f-35-he-came-almost-out-of-nowhere/

That’s also the outdated 2000’s SU-30. I ask readers to look at the amount of upgrades Russia did for Chinese SU-30 for indication of the potential for platform.

SU-35S is the best plane for Iran given the current realities on the ground. People get too caught up on its main PESA race and don’t realize the AESA it also has for short range and the IRST it has.

Unfortunately the plane hasn’t materialized yet in Iran. We’ll see if it shows up over next 6 months.

 

[drmeson]

That’s also the outdated 2000’s SU-30. I ask readers to look at the amount of upgrades Russia did for Chinese SU-30 for indication of the potential for platform.

SU-35S is the best plane for Iran given the current realities on the ground. People get too caught up on its main PESA race and don’t realize the AESA it also has for short range and the IRST it has.

Unfortunately the plane hasn’t materialized yet in Iran. We’ll see if it shows up over next 6 months.

A fighter plane is no longer a single-unit machine that can be termed as "Best" or "Worst". That's obsolete thinking. With the advancement in electronics and armaments, planes are just airframes that can wear combat and electronic suits and become lethal or without them can become useless. A prime example is Gripen-E which by no means can match the physical power, speed, altitude, or maneuvering of any SU-Flanker or F-15 yet it can murder both in the sky because of its E-warfare and combat suit.

SU-35S is a must for IRIAF because Iran needs new large airframes to carry heavy BVR-AAMs and carry out patrols but the focus should be on domestic avionics and e-warfare capabilities along with local light BVR missiles in a class of meteor that these planes can wear to deal with modern threats.

 

[tsunset]

A fighter plane is no longer a single-unit machine that can be termed as "Best" or "Worst". That's obsolete thinking. With the advancement in electronics and armaments, planes are just airframes that can wear combat and electronic suits and become lethal or without them can become useless. A prime example is Gripen-E which by no means can match the physical power, speed, altitude, or maneuvering of any SU-Flanker or F-15 yet it can murder both in the sky because of its E-warfare and combat suit.

SU-35S is a must for IRIAF because Iran needs new large airframes to carry heavy BVR-AAMs and carry out patrols but the focus should be on domestic avionics and e-warfare capabilities along with local light BVR missiles in a class of meteor that these planes can wear to deal with modern threats.

Yet someone will say that Iran should never take them and stick on the Kowsar unfinishable project and lack of production and sticking on 100% Iranian made systems while being threatened of war at a weekly basis by Israel and the United States

Because "AESA good PESA crap useless"

 

[drmeson]

Yet someone will say that Iran should never take them and stick on the Kowsar unfinishable project and lack of production and sticking on 100% Iranian made systems while being threatened of war at a weekly basis by Israel and the United States

Because "AESA good PESA crap useless"

Comparing Kowsar-I with SU-35S is like comparing a motorbike with a truck. Kowsar-I is a light CAP fighter that is at best for mid-BVR range interceptions (if it flying with BVR missiles) and e-warfare if you look at its radar, TDL, and avionics package. It is underpowered for long-range interception, if it goes out of Iranian IADS cover it lacks the power to run back quickly into the guarded airspace (~35000 ft/min climb rate) if it's fired upon by a long-range BVR missile from a superior 4.5 Generation fighter of western origin. Captor-E AESA of EF-2000 T4 can track a Kowsar size craft easily at 150-170 KM and shower it with meteor BVR-AAM. In return, Kowsar will track an EF-2000 at best around ~90 KM so it's a slaughter. At best the plane will have to use its ECM+RWR to escape the zone somehow which will be difficult. With its Tactical Datalinking within IADS, it will do good against 4th generation Fighters like the F-16 block 30, Tornados, F/A-18, F-15, etc because (a) it can track them at BVR ranges (b) Courtesy its ECM package it can't be jammed easily (b) It can pass on track info at BVR ranges to karrar's armed with Sidewinders to attack the target.

SU-35S is for long-range patrols considering its range. A fully armed one (R-73M, R-77ER, R-37), can dash out of IADS cover, deliver R-77ER +R-37 at 4th generation targets ~100-120 KM away then dash back (55000 ft/min climb rate), then climb up, go down etc. It has the power to enter and leave the arena even if its shot at BVR ranges. Its OLS-35 IRST system can see any aircraft at BVR ranges against which it can use R-77PT (IR homing BVR) or can relay the track info to IADS for attack or any other fighter in the vicinity, let's say 2 x MIG-29 armed with R-73 will then deal with the enemy. Even a stealth fighter can't hide from IRST easily. Outside IADS an SU-35S can dodge tracking using its Khibny ECM package which is turning out to be a huge advantage for Flankers in real battle. The downsides SU-35S presents for Iran is its weak PESA IRBIS-E radar which has a considerably smaller track range (~100-110 KM for 1 m2 RCS) and the flanker airframe itself has an RCS of 10-15 m2. SU-35S = SU-27M, the same airframe can not just magically shed off some of this huge RCS without major re-design which did not happen for SU-35. Flankers cover this with their ECM (Khibiny) and power to escape the zone.

A practical solution for IRIAF will be to fly small battle groups of F-14AM + SU-35S together while MIG-29 SMT (hypothetical upgrade) and Kowsar-I create an inner No-fly zone supported by airborne E-warfare (Kaman-22) and Karrar armed with Sidewinders. Within IADS this group can massacre any non 5th generation invading party. Even a Fifth gen once tracked will have a hard time escaping this group.

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new Kowsar-I

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HESA runway expansion for whatever reason

 

[drmeson]

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Jammer for IR seeker bearing missiles for UCAVs/Helis

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More waste of $$

 

[TheImmortal]

Comparing Kowsar-I with SU-35S is like comparing a motorbike with a truck. Kowsar-I is a light CAP fighter that is at best for mid-BVR range interceptions (if it flying with BVR missiles) and e-warfare if you look at its radar, TDL, and avionics package. It is underpowered for long-range interception, if it goes out of Iranian IADS cover it lacks the power to run back quickly into the guarded airspace (~35000 ft/min climb rate) if it's fired upon by a long-range BVR missile from a superior 4.5 Generation fighter of western origin. Captor-E AESA of EF-2000 T4 can track a Kowsar size craft easily at 150-170 KM and shower it with meteor BVR-AAM. In return, Kowsar will track an EF-2000 at best around ~90 KM so it's a slaughter. At best the plane will have to use its ECM+RWR to escape the zone somehow which will be difficult. With its Tactical Datalinking within IADS, it will do good against 4th generation Fighters like the F-16 block 30, Tornados, F/A-18, F-15, etc because (a) it can track them at BVR ranges (b) Courtesy its ECM package it can't be jammed easily (b) It can pass on track info at BVR ranges to karrar's armed with Sidewinders to attack the target.

SU-35S is for long-range patrols considering its range. A fully armed one (R-73M, R-77ER, R-37), can dash out of IADS cover, deliver R-77ER +R-37 at 4th generation targets ~100-120 KM away then dash back (55000 ft/min climb rate), then climb up, go down etc. It has the power to enter and leave the arena even if its shot at BVR ranges. Its OLS-35 IRST system can see any aircraft at BVR ranges against which it can use R-77PT (IR homing BVR) or can relay the track info to IADS for attack or any other fighter in the vicinity, let's say 2 x MIG-29 armed with R-73 will then deal with the enemy. Even a stealth fighter can't hide from IRST easily. Outside IADS an SU-35S can dodge tracking using its Khibny ECM package which is turning out to be a huge advantage for Flankers in real battle. The downsides SU-35S presents for Iran is its weak PESA IRBIS-E radar which has a considerably smaller track range (~100-110 KM for 1 m2 RCS) and the flanker airframe itself has an RCS of 10-15 m2. SU-35S = SU-27M, the same airframe can not just magically shed off some of this huge RCS without major re-design which did not happen for SU-35. Flankers cover this with their ECM (Khibiny) and power to escape the zone.

A practical solution for IRIAF will be to fly small battle groups of F-14AM + SU-35S together while MIG-29 SMT (hypothetical upgrade) and Kowsar-I create an inner No-fly zone supported by airborne E-warfare (Kaman-22) and Karrar armed with Sidewinders. Within IADS this group can massacre any non 5th generation invading party. Even a Fifth gen once tracked will have a hard time escaping this group.

......................

new Kowsar-I

......................

HESA runway expansion for whatever reason

Looks like you found logic on your hiatus and came back a practical person spewing facts/logic instead of all the hate/skepticism you gave on the SU-35 and love to Kowsar project before you left. It’s refreshing to see this logical approach.

Unfortunately since you left @Hack-Hook took your spot for Kowsar lobbyist.

If Russians don’t give us SU-35 when we supported them in their darkest hour then they aren’t worth our material support till the end of time. This is their time to right the wrongs of their history against Iran. So far….silence

 

[drmeson]

Looks like you found logic on your hiatus and came back a practical person spewing facts/logic instead of all the hate/skepticism you gave on the SU-35 and love to Kowsar project before you left. It’s refreshing to see this logical approach.

Unfortunately since you left @Hack-Hook took your spot for Kowsar lobbyist.

If Russians don’t give us SU-35 when we supported them in their darkest hour then they aren’t worth our material support till the end of time. This is their time to right the wrongs of their history against Iran. So far….silence

Ah your weak memory hit again. The thing is my man, you have a very weak understanding of combat aviation. I am not saying I am a top-tier expert but atleast I back up my words with stats, facts n figures while you are caught up in that 1970s obsolete mindset of "big plane = dangerous plane". It is funny.

Anyways, you have invited a dissection of yourself, like always you will get one.

- Russia won't give R-37 so IRIAF will be stuck with R-77R which is 100 KM at best BVR weapon. Compare that to a future surrounding Iran in which AIM-120D, AIM-260, and Meteor will be norms. Please explain how a 100 KM ranging R-77ER fights against 160+ KM ranging AIM-120D, AIM-260, and Meteor?

- SU-35S = SU-27M airframe like how Kowsar-I = F-5F airframe and we know Flanker's airframe has an RCS of 10-15 m^2 (mid-1970s design). No, some magical RAM can not bring down the number. Compare that to potential threats of EF-2000, Rafale, F-18E/F, F-35, F-16D, all have ~1m2 RCS. Other airforces are moving towards low RCS light platforms with AESA, ECM and longest-ranging possible BVR packages. EF-2000, Rafale, F-18E/F, F-16D, Gripen-E, F-35 are being bought by countries in the region not high RCS trucks from 1970s. No one is purchasing F-15 or SU-27 anymore. Please explain how do you hide a 10-15 m2 RCS against AESA radars on enemy 4+ generation fighters that can track its huge azz from 200+ KM?

- It's TDL is limited to its own kind, TDL will have to be integrated and we know modern Russian planes are not "touched" locally by anyone including India, China, Iran, and Egypt. MIG-29 9.12's obsolete avionics in IRIAF is a prime example where it's useless to the point now that without an upgrade it will become a burden in battle yet we see no upgrade. Please give examples where 4th generation fighters of Russian origin are being upgraded locally by any customer out of major nations (except Superpower China) ?

- IRBIS-E is a legacy PESA from the 1990s which can track a target an F-16C/D sized target at 100 KM so imagine a battle against Captor E armed EF2000 or RBE-2M bearing Rafale where the PESA will be jammed from a BVR distance. Please explain how the IRBIS-E PESA will dodge DRFM jamming illumination by DSS ECM of EF2000, ALQ-214 of F-18E/F or Thales Spectra ECM of Rafale from 100+ KM?

- I doubt Khibiny ECM will arrive in Iran. RuAF survival in Ukraine skies and on NATO's periphery depends upon Khibiny ECM and Russia would not risk leaking the system to Iran which they know studies foreign systems and replicates at home. Please provide examples where Khibiny ECM is given by Russia to any one of ~25 Flanker family operators around the globe?

- So for 85 Million USD, IRIAF is getting a 10-15 m^2 RCS airframe, armed with R-77ER (export version) with 100 KM BVR getting tracking info from a PESA IRBIS-E which will track an F-16C at ~100 KM. No it can not substitute F-14A/AM, it has no long-range powerful long-range BVR. Please explain which is better for 85 Million USD price for cash-strapped IRIAF which needs numbers more than anything in its fleet ... 1 x SU-35S or 2 x MIG-35 or 3 x MIG-29M? Retirement of Prop fleet of F-7N, MF-1, F-5E/F will require IRIAF to add some 100 aircraft atleast.

- Why am I not against the deal? IRIAF is a dying force, at this point it needs anything, anything literally. It needs airframes in the form of new fighters be it SU-35S, MIG-29SMT upgrade package, newly built Kowsar-I, or upgraded F-14AM pulled out of storage otherwise the force will become a joke in post-2025 combat aviation world. So, I am supporting anything being procured from outside otherwise my open support has always been towards an expansion of the MIG-29 fleet with a mixture of MIG-29M/SMT and MIG-35 for they are cheaper with the same Avionics+Armament package of SU-35S. IRIAF needs interceptors and MIG-29 is built for that. I have been saying this since IDF/IMF days.

- Luckily, I am not raised to be a stupid consumer so my support will always be towards local production. Every country is moving towards locally built light fighters so my support for Azaraksh=>Saeghe=>Kowsar program will sustain. Had the same stupid consumer mindset of foreign procurements been prevailing in IRGC circles, we would still be purchasing scuds from Russia and DPRK.

 

[drmeson]

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Fully operationalized one.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Very nice planes with a surprising length. It looks like an airplane missile from this point of view. I can't wait to see it in flight because it is very special, seems to have room to board new technology. Very fascinating, this very beautiful plane with its butterfly-like wings