IRIAF | News and Discussions

[drmeson]

Lobby at work

 

[Hack-Hook]

Lobby at work

i like this lobby we need more of them , thats the way if we hope in future we end up producing a 5th or 6th gen fighter, but i don't like twin tail untill we build an engine in class of rd-33 and equip the air plane with it, putting a single RD-33 like engine without afterburner inside the jet instead of two owj is possible without much change it increase fuel efficiency around 30% or more even if those owj don't use afterburner and more than 100% if the owj engines use afterburner and provide 15-20 more power than two owj with afterburner . the engine would be enough powerful to made the jet reach current speed without any afterburner that mean it can reach designed mission area way faster than now without the disadvantage of wasting fuel for that afterburner

 

[sahureka2]

Lobby at work

saegheh aicrafth, on what date this photo

i like this lobby we need more of them , thats the way if we hope in future we end up producing a 5th or 6th gen fighter, but i don't like twin tail untill we build an engine in class of rd-33 and equip the air plane with it, putting a single RD-33 like engine without afterburner inside the jet instead of two owj is possible without much change it increase fuel efficiency around 30% or more even if those owj don't use afterburner and more than 100% if the owj engines use afterburner and provide 15-20 more power than two owj with afterburner . the engine would be enough powerful to made the jet reach current speed without any afterburner that mean it can reach designed mission area way faster than now without the disadvantage of wasting fuel for that afterburner

The changes to the fuselage towards the tail will have to be many if a single RD-33 type engine is to be installed instead of the 2 OWJ

 

[drmeson]

i like this lobby we need more of them , thats the way if we hope in future we end up producing a 5th or 6th gen fighter

These were airframe and moving parts testbeds at best. They tested

Local Ejection seats
Local Landing gears
Local FBW in Saeghe-II with Local central computer-controlled actuators, fuel injections
Natively built airframe (i think 80%?)
Air intake redesign that failed

I had a list of items published in masghreghnews and later by BT on what was achieved in Saeghe-I/II but the program is done and dusted. No matter how much they play around with the F-5 airframe without a turbofan the program will just yield a light CAP fighter with 4.0 Gen avionics. That is Kowsar-I.

Some stupid lobby group got it inducted in Service in Tabriz. Just how radar and pylon less Mirages are "fighters in service"

saegheh aicrafth, on what date this photo


The changes to the fuselage towards the tail will have to be many if a single RD-33 type engine is to be installed instead of the 2 OWJ


The changes to the fuselage towards the tail will have to be many if a single RD-33 type engine is to be installed instead of the 2 OWJ

The pic seems to be screenshots extracted from a video.

This is by the way the same Saegheh-II prototype from years ago with serial 3-7182. Either the screenshots are from 2014/15 or they are overhauling the useless fucker.

Who literally is allowing this waste of $$$ on Saegheh-I/II, Mirage F-1, F-7N, F-5E/F

 

[mack8]

Lobby at work

Fortunately that's the Saeqeh-2 from years back in 2015.

Kowsar clearly shows the twin fin does not work hence it was abandoned. As i understand the twin fins actually impose severe limitation on maneuvering, load-out (hence some Saeqehs without wingtip rails) and G-limits compared to a normal F-5. In an ideal world all the Saeqeh should be broken up for spares to support the F-5/Kowsar fleet, or at least modified back to single fin if the airframe was not mangled beyond repair (to fit the twin fins).

 

[Hack-Hook]

The changes to the fuselage towards the tail will have to be many if a single RD-33 type engine is to be installed instead of the 2 OWJ

the tail is enough wide they just need to do some modification to the down slope at the back of the body so it end 40cm higher i believe its easier than adding another vertical stabilizer
it's something already done the design is in front of everyone eye to see and can be copied .

 

[drmeson]

Fortunately that's the Saeqeh-2 from years back in 2015.

yeah I wrote the serial above, 3-7182 the original protoT

Kowsar clearly shows the twin fin does not work hence it was abandoned. As i understand the twin fins actually impose severe limitation on maneuvering, load-out (hence some Saeqehs without wingtip rails) and G-limits compared to a normal F-5.

On the contrary, the designer said the roll became very fast as it is in F-18. No idea about the pitching or yawing.

They failed in air-intakes redesign which was initially square in the first prototype and then was reverted to the original F-5 configuration.

To me the plan would have been a success if Sattari would not have died. His death killed the Azarakhsh program and later Saeqeh turned out to be another ego project. Kowsar is a real machine atleast but not the solution for IRIAF without AESA+long range BVR airstrike and a powerful Turbofan.

In an ideal world all the Saeqeh should be broken up for spares to support the F-5/Kowsar fleet, or at least modified back to single fin if the airframe was not mangled beyond repair (to fit the twin fins).

If they get serious into building 60-70 vitalized Kowsar-I they will need to retire the entire fleet of Saegheh-I/II (6), F-5B Simorgh (12) and F-5E/F (49). This will create a repository of parts for Kowsar-I. But then Kowsar-I is just an underpowered F-20 Tigershark or some sort of a FCK-1. Not the solution IRIAF needs.

The focus should be on Kowsar-II with a turbofan, AESA, light ARH BVR, and all aspect coupled cluster imaging WVR slaved to HMD. The rest of the ingredients such as FBW, efficient Datalink, and ECM package are already there. Even the radar they showed is a Grifo-346 replica so it is very modern with SAR capability better than anything Russia is flying.

This is not bad but not good enough either.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Fortunately that's the Saeqeh-2 from years back in 2015.

Kowsar clearly shows the twin fin does not work hence it was abandoned. As i understand the twin fins actually impose severe limitation on maneuvering, load-out (hence some Saeqehs without wingtip rails) and G-limits compared to a normal F-5. In an ideal world all the Saeqeh should be broken up for spares to support the F-5/Kowsar fleet, or at least modified back to single fin if the airframe was not mangled beyond repair (to fit the twin fins).

the twin tail is not the problem the problem is with OWJ engine its under powered and the aircraft can't cope with aditional drag , if the engine was more powerful then the twine tail would have shown its use , its just a delta wing , it has its own use but you need a minimum power envelope to be able to benefit from it , you go below that and it only be a hindrance

 

[Sineva]

i like this lobby we need more of them , thats the way if we hope in future we end up producing a 5th or 6th gen fighter, but i don't like twin tail untill we build an engine in class of rd-33 and equip the air plane with it, putting a single RD-33 like engine without afterburner inside the jet instead of two owj is possible without much change it increase fuel efficiency around 30% or more even if those owj don't use afterburner and more than 100% if the owj engines use afterburner and provide 15-20 more power than two owj with afterburner . the engine would be enough powerful to made the jet reach current speed without any afterburner that mean it can reach designed mission area way faster than now without the disadvantage of wasting fuel for that afterburner

The big problem of course is fitting the rd33 into the f5 airframe,this would require some considerable redesign.
The only aircraft in iriaf service that you could fit the rd33 into without some major redesign work wold be the f1,tho this would require some modifications to the mounting of the rd33s ancillaries.
With the amount of work required to fit something like an rd33 into the airframe,combined with all of the inherent limitations of what is basically a 1950s/60s era light fighter design,you might just as well start with a clean sheet of paper design to produce something along the lines of an iranian jf17.
Tho obviously such a project would be quite beyond the current abilities of the iriaf.

 

[sha ah]

Do you know what your issue is ? Your problem is that you're not looking at the facts from an objective lens & coming to a rational conclusion based on the facts and all the available data. You've already made up your mind ahead of time and are merely looking for anything that will support your narrative. That's just confirmation bias. You basically ignore, dismiss, deflect anything that doesn't support your narrative, no matter how profound or significant. On the other hand, you find any information or data that can support your narrative, no matter how miniscule & insignificant and you proceed to put it on a pedestal.

Like when you try to imply that the Rials exchange rate is not indicative of Iran's economic vitals, that's just silly. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously.

Do you realize that when Iran wants to import anything, for example from China, Iran's largest export partner, that Iran has to pay in US Dollars. The Chinese won't accept Rials will they ? Actually they won't accept Canadian Dollars, they won't accept Swiss Francs. They won't even accept Chinese Yuan (their own currency) They will only, exclusively accept US Dollars. That's because the US Dollar is the worlds reserve currency and it will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Sure there's Brics & talks about a Brics backed currency but those talks are in the early stages. If it even happens, and it's a huge IF, it will likely take decades.

So essentially, when Iran's currency lost half of its value recently, going from around 250-270,000 Rial to 500-550,000 Rial or higher, that means that Iranians importers now have to pay twice as many Rials for US Dollars in order to purchase basically anything from anyone. That means that costs will skyrocket, which they have and peoples buying power will only continue to rapidly diminish. This isn't a new phenomenon. This has been happening for decades and the Islamic Republic government has been unable to cease the Rials demise since it's inception.

Realistically the government in Iran could try to stabilize the economy by pegging the Rial to Gold, Silver or other commodities. They could have raised the interest rates slightly, they could have banned forex transactions for a short period of time to calm the markets when the Rial was plummeting uncontrollably. However they haven't done anything like that. They haven't taken any decisive action.

The government in Iran for whatever reason seems to be unable or unwilling to do anything. Is it incompetence ? corruption ? I don't know, but people in Iran are fed up and the fact of the matter is that this is not sustainable. If the people currently calling the shots are not able to stabilize the economy, they will not be calling the shots for much longer, whether you like it or not. No regime or government can sustain itself indefinitely under such circumstances, especially because the people in Iran know how much potential the country has.

And that's another issue. With the correct economic policies, Iran's GDP could easily be in the top ten within 5-10 years. This is not hard to prove. Without sanctions, Iran could easily be exporting two to three times as much oil as it is now. Without sanctions, Iran could be generating just as much revenue, if not more from natural gas pipelines & LNG exports, selling to Europe, China, India, Pakistan, basically the entire world. Economists have stated that with the right amount of investment, that Iran's mining industry could be one of the most lucrative in the world. Then there's the tourism. the automotive industry & much more. Realistically a GDP of $2-3 trillion is very feasible within a decade, with the right policies that is. That would put Iran on par with countries like South Korea or Canada.

The mullahs & their supporters, people like you, want Iranians to believe that their policies are the most beneficial for Iran & Iranians, but the facts speak for themselves. Their policies have completely & utterly failed. By your own admission, 1 in 3 Iranians lives in abject poverty, but of course you try to brush it off as if it's not significant, as if it's temporary. This while the economy is in ruins & the currency is completely worthless. Realistically this is not temporary, this economic decline has been going on for decades & will continue as long as the same failed policies remain in place.

No confusion on my part, you are twisting the poster's words. Muhammed45 was referring to Iranians who trash their own nation 24/7, to quote the exact phrase they were reacting to.



Slight correction: they emigrate because of the subjective assumption that they would find better opportunities abroad. Assumption cultivated and fed by the most resourceful and suffocating propaganda apparatus in the history of mankind.



No, the opposite is the case: rioters hijacked peaceful protests and began attacking law enforcement and damaging property, thus prompting a legitimate response from authorities dong their duty to restore public order and safety.

The term "mullahs" is meaningless in this context, the immense majority of clerics in Iran are apolitical and do not partake in government affairs.



Incorrect, imperialist powers are enemies to all free nations, considering their systematic policies of subjugation, oppression and exploitation. Since the rise of Anglo-zionist imperialism, which subjected Iranians to genocide during WW1, the Iranian nation has had mortal enemies to face. And the Islamic Republic has succeeded in repelling said enemies and in shielding Iran from their most grievous acts of mischief.



It's a perfectly valid expectation grounded in observable facts, and a practical certitude.



Had it not been for the British empire's change of mind in 1921, when it chose to install a centralized dictatorship in Tehran rather than to continue backing the separatist chieftains it was propping up hitherto, Iran would most likely have been dismantled.

But what happened then has no incidence on the present day scenario.



This is a decidedly weak contention, which offers no explanation at all as to how exactly Iran would be supposed to survive the onslaught that would inevitably to ensue, with all ground realities pointing to the opposite. Lots of historic constants more enduring than Iran have eventually met their end. The longevity of the Iranian state to date provides no guarantee that it will withstand every type of plot no matter what, especially when the determination and effective power of the adversary is unprecedented. Iran hasn't been up against a foe as redoubtable committed to the aim of terminating her nationhood and civilization. Banking on some vague hope that Iran will be lucky again because she is an ancient state, would be nothing short of suicidal under these circumstances.

Here's how the truth presents itself:

1) Iran is in the crosshairs of the zio-American empire.

2) The empire's agenda is to split Iran along "ethno"-linguistic lines.

3) Every relevant oppositionist organization in exile is endorsing the zionist-dictated program of "ethnic" federalization, a semantic euphemism as well as a springboard towards territorial disintegration. Every relevant oppositionist organization is seen collaborating with "ethno"-separatist grouplets, including armed ones.

4) The very same agenda has been implemented by those imperial powers across multiple nations of the broader neighborhood. Precedents are there for everyone to see, from Iraq to Syria via Libya and Sudan. Out of all these countries, Iran in the eyes of the zionists and NATO is the ultimate prize. Iran has been challenging their interests with far greater intensity and success than any of the nations they wrecked could have hoped. They went to lengths to have the aforementioned destroyed, sure as hell they are not going to harbor the slightest second thoughts about pulling out all the stops to incinerate Iran from ground up the moment they get a chance to do so. And hypothetical collapse of Iranian government structures would provide such a chance par excellence.



Iran will be ripped into pieces and Iranian nationhood and civilization will cease to exist in the event of a collapse of central state authority.

Zionist- and American-funded oppositionists try to suggest otherwise since their patrons' goal is to encourage Iranians to rush towards their own demise. Just as they did to Iraqis. To Syrians. To Libyans. The list is long.



There's nothing to assume. Figures from non-authoritative sources are devoid of credibility, it's quite simple.



No it means they're classified as poor. "Abject" is a gratuitous qualification thrown in to play on emotions, an un-scientific and biased procedure.



That's patently false. After the victory of the Islamic Revolution poverty decreased remarkably. Neither poverty nor inflation have evolved in a linear manner over the past decades. Rather, they experienced periodic fluctuations and the same will unfold in the foreseeable future.



The government has and is pursuing policies to this effect. However there is a debate going on between competing factions holding influence over the administration's decision making, as to what economic strategy will best address the issue of inflation. This has somewhat complicated the finalization of a comprehensive action plan by the government. It's the outcome of said debate which will determine the government's policies.

People unfamiliar with this aspect are insufficiently informed to pass judgement on the administration's performance in this regard.



Inflation in Iran is not caused by the fact that the trade volume between Iran and western countries is limited, nor by USA-imposed sanctions.

Furthermore the quoted narrative is incoherent, seeing how it just contradicted its previous assessment about Russia.



Not serious economists and analysts.



So do multiple developing nations other than Iran.

Moreover no, Iran's population is ageing at a sustained pace.

Also these two factors on their own are far from sufficient to generate very high GDP.



Keep repeating already debunked slogans, I will be here to deconstruct them anew. Natural resources, especially energy, do not necessarily represent an opportunity. On the contrary, abundance of oil resources is considered to be an impediment to economic development, as illustrated by the Dutch Disease model.



Trade corridors through Iran are active and in the process of being expanded.

As for tourism, I don't really need to enumerate the countless cases of impoverished tourist destinations.



"Trade" per se has nothing much to do with any of this.



It's not me, but UN-supplied data you're laughing at.

More importantly, it highlights your unfamiliarity with the topic at hand as well as the superficiality of cliché-laden outlooks.



And yet, China ranks beneath Iran in terms of HDI. Which is not exempt of significance.



I point to verifiable and established facts, namely that Iran's macro-economic indicators such as employment rate, balance of trade, balance of payments, budget balance, debt levels etc are satisfactory for the most part. I underscore there's no stagflation happening.

What this implies, is that the Iranian economy isn't suffering the devastating structural crisis western- and zionist-sponsored propaganda outlets pretend it is.

Your argument on the other hand basically boils down to a single issue that is inflation. When it comes to wages, citing them in US dollars is misleading when the prices of common consumer goods aren't mentioned, given that these are far inferior to western norms as well.



I dismiss it in conjunction with another reason you chose to obfuscate: it is a deeply subjective evaluation. Indexes such these aren't based on readily measurable metrics therefore they are fundamentally questionable.



Unlike the so-called "Ease of Doing Business Index", data used to calculate a country's HDI essentially consists of concretely quantifiable items.

The HDI is published by the UN Development Programme. While western powers do have sway over the UN, all this does is to confirm Iran's high state of development because western regimes have zero interest in overvaluing the Islamic Republic's achievements. So this too is working against your claims.



Won't impact the HDI in a meaningful way.



Under the former regime the rial became over-valued as a result of oil windfall, which is profoundly detrimental to the economy. Nominal exchange rates don't tell the whole story.



Inoperative off-topic response to the historical facts I shared. Also repeating a fallacy over and over won't make it more accurate.



The groundwork for China's development was laid during chairman Mao's time.

Plus China's geopolitical setting is very different from Iran's. In China's vicinity, there is no settler entity bent on exerting regional hegemony while wielding disproportional influence over USA policy.



South Korea also has one of the least dynamic demographies and one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Seems like its "flourishing, vibrant economy" is not exactly suited to induce enthusiasm about life.

Not to mention Seoul's effective lack of sovereignty, which no amount of material affluence can ever make up for.

 

[mack8]

These were airframe and moving parts testbeds at best. They tested

Local Ejection seats
Local Landing gears
Local FBW in Saeghe-II with Local central computer-controlled actuators, fuel injections
Natively built airframe (i think 80%?)
Air intake redesign that failed

I had a list of items published in masghreghnews and later by BT on what was achieved in Saeghe-I/II but the program is done and dusted. No matter how much they play around with the F-5 airframe without a turbofan the program will just yield a light CAP fighter with 4.0 Gen avionics. That is Kowsar-I.

Some stupid lobby group got it inducted in Service in Tabriz. Just how radar and pylon less Mirages are "fighters in service"

The pic seems to be screenshots extracted from a video.

This is by the way the same Saegheh-II prototype from years ago with serial 3-7182. Either the screenshots are from 2014/15 or they are overhauling the useless fucker.

Who literally is allowing this waste of $$$ on Saegheh-I/II, Mirage F-1, F-7N, F-5E/F

I agree fully with you re the stupid lobby and money waste at least regarding Saeqeh.

Back in the day when BT was a believable source (before he became such a shrill pro-israeli and pro-american/pro-Pahlavi), he said basically the mullahs or anyway someone at the very top shove Saeqeh onto the IRIAF (which didn't wanted to have anything to do with it as they knew it doesn't work and didn't wanted valuable F-5 airframes wasted), after the first one was shown with all the propaganda around it, they wanted more converted to twin fins, and the horrible yellow blue cheap imitation of Blue Angels paint, purely for propaganda reasons and nothing more. So clearly some incompetent and aviation illiterate politician wasted 6 good airframes just for ego, political gain or whatever (which backfired and brought ridicule anyway as no serious aviation expert can be fooled by what Saeqeh really is)

These same idiots behind Saeqeh probably also "gave us" the even more horrid Qaher (i know i sound like a broken disk but i absolutely hate that thing and the shame and ridicule it brought on your country's aviation, and the aviation history as a whole)

As to the Mirages, F-7s etc, imo in Iran's current situation every airframe worths it's weight in gold, so every bit helps. If they could at least modify the Mirages with Kowsar or Dowran avionics and radar and carry some anti-ship missiles, or even cruise missiles, it will be a tangible boost. And never mind BVR missiles, just stick couple of R-73s under the wing like south Africa did and call it a day. Personally i'm surprised they haven't integrated the much more capable R-73 (compared to vanilla AIM-9s anyway) on F-4, F-14 and even F-5, couldn't be that hard. Aparently they have tried various such integration of russian missiles on US aircraft and met some problem or other, but instead of persevering and sort it out, they just gave up. Same as IFR for F-5 or MiG-29, RWR and chaff/flare dispensers for F-5 and many such projects that are now something like 20 years old.

As to the F-7, well it does it's job as advanced trainer so better have them than not, until Iran gets something better/newer to replace it.

 

[mack8]

The big problem of course is fitting the rd33 into the f5 airframe,this would require some considerable redesign.
The only aircraft in iriaf service that you could fit the rd33 into without some major redesign work wold be the f1,tho this would require some modifications to the mounting of the rd33s ancillaries.
With the amount of work required to fit something like an rd33 into the airframe,combined with all of the inherent limitations of what is basically a 1950s/60s era light fighter design,you might just as well start with a clean sheet of paper design to produce something along the lines of an iranian jf17.
Tho obviously such a project would be quite beyond the current abilities of the iriaf.

I know this is a flight of fancy, but i quite like this what-if single engine Saeqeh model done by this modeler.

1:72 HESA Saeqeh / Saeqeh 2 [Hasegawa][ITALERI] : 妄想第九格納庫

いやはや秋！とってもご無沙汰でございます。いやまぁ色々とありまして更新途絶えておりました。や、地味に進めてはいたのよ？ほんとだよ？ましてやほら、また2機同時進行だったから。ね。でもちゃんと完成させたから褒めて？ま、言い訳（にもなってないけど）はこの辺にしと

mohsoh-hanger-no9.blog.jp

On a more serious note, if, IF they are determined, they support it and they work hard on it i don't see why can't they build something like an iranian F-20. Engine availability is the most important issues though, either a RD-33 copy or something else.
And really, we keep hearing about all these advancements in the engine field, with more modern materials and design tech, by replacing the relevant parts why could they not just increase thrust/life of existing engines such as TF-30 or J-79 and so on by even 10%, never mind building a brand new high power engine.
As to the J-85, would not an iranian copy built with modern materials increase thrust to say a modicum of 2500 kgf and more life/less weight/less consumption? It's 50 years old tech literally.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

I know this is a flight of fancy, but i quite like this what-if single engine Saeqeh model done by this modeler.

1:72 HESA Saeqeh / Saeqeh 2 [Hasegawa][ITALERI] : 妄想第九格納庫

いやはや秋！とってもご無沙汰でございます。いやまぁ色々とありまして更新途絶えておりました。や、地味に進めてはいたのよ？ほんとだよ？ましてやほら、また2機同時進行だったから。ね。でもちゃんと完成させたから褒めて？ま、言い訳（にもなってないけど）はこの辺にしと

mohsoh-hanger-no9.blog.jp

On a more serious note, if, IF they are determined, they support it and they work hard on it i don't see why can't they build something like an iranian F-20. Engine availability is the most important issues though, either a RD-33 copy or something else.
And really, we keep hearing about all these advancements in the engine field, with more modern materials and design tech, by replacing the relevant parts why could they not just increase thrust/life of existing engines such as TF-30 or J-79 and so on by even 10%, never mind building a brand new high power engine.
As to the J-85, would not an iranian copy built with modern materials increase thrust to say a modicum of 2500 kgf and more life/less weight/less consumption? It's 50 years old tech literally.

Issue is balancing of components to avoid imbalance that can destroy engine.
Also lighter components would result in higher temperatures.
Which materials may not handle increased heating.

Thing is new jet engine design is more viable.

 

[drmeson]

I agree fully with you re the stupid lobby and money waste at least regarding Saeqeh.

Back in the day when BT was a believable source (before he became such a shrill pro-israeli and pro-american/pro-Pahlavi), he said basically the mullahs or anyway someone at the very top shove Saeqeh onto the IRIAF (which didn't wanted to have anything to do with it as they knew it doesn't work and didn't wanted valuable F-5 airframes wasted), after the first one was shown with all the propaganda around it, they wanted more converted to twin fins, and the horrible yellow blue cheap imitation of Blue Angels paint, purely for propaganda reasons and nothing more. So clearly some incompetent and aviation illiterate politician wasted 6 good airframes just for ego, political gain or whatever (which backfired and brought ridicule anyway as no serious aviation expert can be fooled by what Saeqeh really is)

I can't agree or disagree with that but what I have read is that there were a group of IRIAF officers from the Iraq war who fell in love with F-5E/F because of its performance during the war. It shot down Mig-25RB/PD, MIG-21MF/BIS, and SU-22/20 and just was never shot itself at the BVR range despite the fact there were a number of reports of MIG-25PD or MIG-23ML shooting their R-40, R-23 BVR missiles at it but none hit because of low RCS airframe. Its driven F/A-18 and F-18EF are documented by the US navy to have 1-2 m^2 RCS. It also took part in bombing or diversion-causing invasions into enemy territory such as during the attack on H-3 and was again never easy to catch. As underpowered it is, it can reach 0.9 Mach at low levels without afterburners.

So when these pilots and battle planners gained bigger ranks laterwards in IRIAF they started focusing on domestic production of a local F-5E/F variant. One of these guys was Mansour Sattari who was the IRIAF Commander in mid 1990s. His plan was to follow the Shahi era blue prints of F/A-18 domestic production and develop a local fighter having an airframe of F-5E/F with RD-33 turbofan with N019 radar with R-27/R-73 package. He died on duty and Russia backed out of MIG-29+MIG-31 deals with IRIAF which were signed by Rafsanjani and Yeltsin.
So the project went to CATIC of China under the title "Silk Route II" in which the avionics package of the most modern J7E were to be installed on F-5E/F with some 30-40 % locally built airframe. That plane became Azarakhsh (the green one) with stupid Sy-80 radar and PL-7C missiles. IRIAF was not happy with it at all because they abhorred F-7 already. So it never went into production.

The next plan was to make the plane even more modernized with a Western-origin avionics package. At that time Chinese NRIET which is part of CATIC China somehow started copying LEONARDO GRIFO radars of Italian origin. Some people including me believe that Italians sold their designs to CATIC for hefty prices because they would not want to sell anything to rogue nations directly. Grifo-S7 became NRIET KLJ-7 (FC-1/JF-17), Grifo-E became KLJ-7A AESA (J-31) and GRIFO-346 became SAIRAN (Iran) Bayyenat-II on Kowsar-I (Chinese designation is KLJ-6F probably???). The design is exact replica including the number and layout of T/R modules. It's quite a modern system with a Detection/Track range of 120/94 KM for 1m2 RCS target. It has look down shoot down capability and SAR of 1m2 (better than SU-35S's IRBIS), and has an internal ECM package. It's currently being used by M-346 and at one point was even considered for YAK-131. Technically it can track even a F-18EF at around 100 KM and fire a salvo of R-77AE/PL-12/PL-15 at it.

Because of sanctions on Iran during Ahmadinejad era, Chinese left and HESA was contracted by IRIAF to carry on the Silk Route II Project. They made some radical changes to the design such as the plan changed to the point that F-5E/F basic airframe will be modified with twin stabilizers and the airintakes will be squared up to gain high AOA and they will be under the wings and locally produced OWJ turbojets will be installed on the plane. According to the extremely detailed work published in key.aero every prototype had an increasing % of locally built airframes like Saeghe-II in 2015 was upto 70 % locally built.

The plan failed because (A) IRIAF had no money to supply to HESA for further work (B) The OWJ Turbojets were not powerful enough to extract fast pitch/yaw/roll for which the airframe was modified. Russia only supplied ~50 RD-33 in early 2000s which went to MIG-29 9.12 fleet despite the fact that order was for 250 RD-33 to be used on Shafagh and Saeghe-I/II. So Saegheh-I/II project got bundled up in 2016-2017 but somehow through lobbyism it was "inducted" into service at Tabriz TAB-2. HESA moved to Kowsar-I which is a mixture of few 100% locally built airframes while others use some % of local parts. According to BT the plane that was shown during its unveiling was almost 100% domestically built, was a bit larger the F-5F, it had a totally different internal structural layout (can be seen) to accommodate heavy avionics equipment. It has a modern radar (mentioned above)+ECM, Double Duplex Datalink to send and receive track-info with UCAVs/GWACS/other fighters which was confirmed by HESA-head himself. The avionics architecture consists of 4 x system computers for Weapons, Mission, and Flight management, and there is also a Ballistic Computer similar to SU-24/34 SVP-24 for precision ground strikes. Something surprising was the use of local FBW for the actuation of control surfaces. The plane turned to be quite modern for Iranian capabilities but its underpowered. You can not take on an EF-2000 or Rafale while climbing at 34000 ft/min. F-5E/F can almost supercruise on J-85II/OWJ and reach 0.9Mach without burners so at low speed or altitude the turbojets can do fine but to defend airspace against invasion you need fast climb and high acceleration which can only come from a AL-31F like a monster. Also it has no BVR missile to use. It can technically easily integrate PL-12/15 or R-77AE but they have not landed in Iran yet. Dowran F-4E/D's were supposed to recieve PL-12 but we have never seen them in pics so no evidence exists while as long as SU-35S does not land in Iran R-77AE is beyond Iranian reach as well.

These same idiots behind Saeqeh probably also "gave us" the even more horrid Qaher (i know i sound like a broken disk but i absolutely hate that thing and the shame and ridicule it brought on your country's aviation, and the aviation history as a whole)

Qaher is a different story altogether and I have no doubt left that it will become a UCAV in near future. Its easy to do actually with a Tolue-14 or Jahesh-700 turbofan and tons of experiences gained through Saegheh Flying wing mass production.

As to the Mirages, F-7s etc, imo in Iran's current situation every airframe worths it's weight in gold, so every bit helps. If they could at least modify the Mirages with Kowsar or Dowran avionics and radar and carry some anti-ship missiles, or even cruise missiles, it will be a tangible boost.

Why would Iran need IRIAF to deliver AShCM when they can hit a carrier at 700 KM with Zolfaghar Basir AShBM which comes down dancing with separating MaRV from the depressed trajectory or IRGC-N can deliver Salvos of Mehdi Cruise-M from 1000+ KM? Let along anything a swarm of Shahed-136 can ruin the superstructure of a ship including radar.

And never mind BVR missiles, just stick couple of R-73s under the wing like south Africa did and call it a day. Personally i'm surprised they haven't integrated the much more capable R-73 (compared to vanilla AIM-9s anyway) on F-4, F-14 and even F-5, couldn't be that hard.

R-73 cant take track-info from AWG-9 so without that, and using its own seeker for tracking the target the range fo R-73 is barely 15 KM. It becomes useless for F-14A/AM.

According to BT, Babaei Missile Industries (which developed Fakour-90 LRBVR) is producing a coupled cluster imaging, All Aspect WVR missile called "Azarakhsh-I" with 40 KM range (if it takes track info from radar). We have actually seen it with 4 gimbaled motors controlling four fins separately like AIM-9X. That is for Kowsar-I/II, Yasin-Attack version, F-14AM.

Aparently they have tried various such integration of russian missiles on US aircraft and met some problem or other, but instead of persevering and sort it out, they just gave up. Same as IFR for F-5 or MiG-29, RWR and chaff/flare dispensers for F-5 and many such projects that are now something like 20 years old.

As to the F-7, well it does it's job as advanced trainer so better have them than not, until Iran gets something better/newer to replace it.

F-7 is alive because of a lobby called "Erfanians" otherwise it serves no purpose in IRIAF. It lacks BVR, lacks look down shoot down, lacks ECM, it lacks everything. Mirages have no radars or even pylons. Its lobby is alive from Naghdi-beks time whose sole purpose is to somehow keep it in the fleet without weapons. IRIAF should park it in Kish and use it as a tourism jet to make money because it has no other purpose. F-5E/F is flying with APG-153 with a 36KM track range for 5 m2 target.

These three circus clown jets are a waste of money that should go to Kowsar-II production and expanding the SU-35S fleet beyond even 64. IRIAF needs nothing but SU-35S+ Kowsar-II, Karrar/Qaher based unmanned wingmen and IADS-slaved AWACS. The rest of the fleet except F-14AM does nothing for Iran. MIG-29 9.12 fleet is flying with MIG-23ML's radar and avionics package which can barely track a target of Kowsar size at 55 KM and lacks RWR. It also has no ARH BVR. Although BT is saying that MIG-29 fleet is undergoing a Billion USD MIG-29SMT level upgrade.

 

[tsunset]

Do you know what your issue is ? Your problem is that you're not looking at the facts from an objective lens & coming to a rational conclusion based on the facts and all the available data. You've already made up your mind ahead of time and are merely looking for anything that will support your narrative. That's just confirmation bias. You basically ignore, dismiss, deflect anything that doesn't support your narrative, no matter how profound or significant. On the other hand, you find any information or data that can support your narrative, no matter how miniscule & insignificant and you proceed to put it on a pedestal.

Like when you try to imply that the Rials exchange rate is not indicative of Iran's economic vitals, that's just silly. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously.

Do you realize that when Iran wants to import anything, for example from China, Iran's largest export partner, that Iran has to pay in US Dollars. The Chinese won't accept Rials will they ? Actually they won't accept Canadian Dollars, they won't accept Swiss Francs. They won't even accept Chinese Yuan (their own currency) They will only, exclusively accept US Dollars. That's because the US Dollar is the worlds reserve currency and it will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Sure there's Brics & talks about a Brics backed currency but those talks are in the early stages. If it even happens, and it's a huge IF, it will likely take decades.

So essentially, when Iran's currency lost half of its value recently, going from around 250-270,000 Rial to 500-550,000 Rial or higher, that means that Iranians importers now have to pay twice as many Rials for US Dollars in order to purchase basically anything from anyone. That means that costs will skyrocket, which they have and peoples buying power will only continue to rapidly diminish. This isn't a new phenomenon. This has been happening for decades and the Islamic Republic government has been unable to cease the Rials demise since it's inception.

Realistically the government in Iran could try to stabilize the economy by pegging the Rial to Gold, Silver or other commodities. They could have raised the interest rates slightly, they could have banned forex transactions for a short period of time to calm the markets when the Rial was plummeting uncontrollably. However they haven't done anything like that. They haven't taken any decisive action.

The government in Iran for whatever reason seems to be unable or unwilling to do anything. Is it incompetence ? corruption ? I don't know, but people in Iran are fed up and the fact of the matter is that this is not sustainable. If the people currently calling the shots are not able to stabilize the economy, they will not be calling the shots for much longer, whether you like it or not. No regime or government can sustain itself indefinitely under such circumstances, especially because the people in Iran know how much potential the country has.

And that's another issue. With the correct economic policies, Iran's GDP could easily be in the top ten within 5-10 years. This is not hard to prove. Without sanctions, Iran could easily be exporting two to three times as much oil as it is now. Without sanctions, Iran could be generating just as much revenue, if not more from natural gas pipelines & LNG exports, selling to Europe, China, India, Pakistan, basically the entire world. Economists have stated that with the right amount of investment, that Iran's mining industry could be one of the most lucrative in the world. Then there's the tourism. the automotive industry & much more. Realistically a GDP of $2-3 trillion is very feasible within a decade, with the right policies that is. That would put Iran on par with countries like South Korea or Canada.

The mullahs & their supporters, people like you, want Iranians to believe that their policies are the most beneficial for Iran & Iranians, but the facts speak for themselves. Their policies have completely & utterly failed. By your own admission, 1 in 3 Iranians lives in abject poverty, but of course you try to brush it off as if it's not significant, as if it's temporary. This while the economy is in ruins & the currency is completely worthless. Realistically this is not temporary, this economic decline has been going on for decades & will continue as long as the same failed policies remain in place.

Why do you hate Iran so much and love the whites?

You want that Iran becomes like South Korea? Is that an insult or something you see as good? South Korea is an US protectorate owned land.

Your whole talking point is: "Bend down to the white supremacists to remove sanctions so that we can be like South Korea and Saudis with their Lamborghini and everyone will be happy and we can make nice fighters"

You have to understand that they will never remove sanctions unless those are done by Iran:

• Declare to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) a full account of the prior military dimensions of its nuclear programme and permanently and verifiably abandon such work in perpetuity.
• Stop enrichment and never pursue plutonium reprocessing, including closing its heavy water reactor.
• Dismantle all nuclear reactor in the country and let the newly formed special United States nuclear inspectors remodel new civilian reactor at the cost of Iran
• Provide the IAEA with unqualified access to all sites throughout the entire country.

• End its proliferation of ballistic missiles and halt further launching or development of nuclear-capable missile systems. (even if there is nothing).
• Dismantle every nuclear capable ballistic missile with a range of more than 50km, let United States inspectors remodel the missiles so that they cannot contain nuclear weapons, as well as reducing their payload and installing specific codes to allow the launch of them in case Iran needs to defend itself with the approval of the United States.
• Dismantle every Soviet/Russian/Chinese acquired hardware and accept to make a fund for future purchase of European, Israeli and United States limited hardware in limited quantities.
• Provide the United States and its allies a location to build a central hub which will consist of military bases and civilian infrastructure only accessible to United States citizens and its allies, at the cost of Iran
• Sever all diplomatic ties with Russia, China, Venezuela, Syria and Belarus
• Accept to send lethal packages to Ukraine

• Release all US citizens as well as citizens of US partners and allies.
• End support to Middle East terrorist groups, including Hezbollah, Hamas, ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Islamic Jihad. (even if there is nothing).
• Respect the sovereignty of the Iraqi government and permit the disarming, demobilisation and reintegration of Shia militias.
• End military support for the Houthi rebels and work towards a peaceful, political settlement in Yemen led by Saudi Arabia and its allies.
• Withdraw all forces under Iran’s command throughout the entirety of Syria.
• End support for the Taliban and other “terrorists” in Afghanistan and the region and cease harbouring senior al-Qaeda leaders. (even if there is no funding).
• End the Islamic Revolutionary Guard corps-linked Quds Force’s support for terrorists and militant partners around the world. (even if there is no funding).
• End its threatening behaviour against its neighbours, including its threats to destroy Israel and its firing of missiles at Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and threats to international shipping and destructive cyberattacks.

• Recognize Israel as a legitimate government, launch trade of primary ressources with a prior discount of 90% on any exported products, the discount will lower each 20 year up to -10%.
• Make a deal, sponsored by the United States, with the Azerbaijan Republic, to give peacefully the Southern Azerbaijan land that remains to the Azerbaijan republic
• With the help of the United States and Arabic leaders, make an autonomous Arabestan region inside Iran which will run its own money and democracy.
• Make an autonomous republic of Qashqaistan.
• Give back to Afghanistan all its land until Tehran.
• With the help of the United States and Kurdish chieftains, make an autonomous Kurdistan region inside Iran.
• Accept the help that the United States and its allies would provide to Iran to extract gas and oil throughout the country, the machinery costs and manpower fees will be at the charge of Iran and its leadership.
• Accept to make a zone in the Gulf for the United States and its allies to make a naval hub for NATO to secure the Gulf and bring peace to the region.
• Take a picture with the United States president along with the surrendering Supreme Leader as an humiliation process

And replace everything with US, Western monitored systems.

Or else push for a revolution, which will lead to a civil war, while the Whites will take all your ressources, you will cut your skin and cry when this would happen