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I can't agree or disagree with that but what I have read is that there were a group of IRIAF officers from the Iraq war who fell in love with F-5E/F because of its performance during the war. It shot down Mig-25RB/PD, MIG-21MF/BIS, and SU-22/20 and just was never shot itself at the BVR range despite the fact there were a number of reports of MIG-25PD or MIG-23ML shooting their R-40, R-23 BVR missiles at it but none hit because of low RCS airframe. Its driven F/A-18 and F-18EF are documented by the US navy to have 1-2 m^2 RCS. It also took part in bombing or diversion-causing invasions into enemy territory such as during the attack on H-3 and was again never easy to catch. As underpowered it is, it can reach 0.9 Mach at low levels without afterburners.

So when these pilots and battle planners gained bigger ranks laterwards in IRIAF they started focusing on domestic production of a local F-5E/F variant. One of these guys was Mansour Sattari who was the IRIAF Commander in mid 1990s. His plan was to follow the Shahi era blue prints of F/A-18 domestic production and develop a local fighter having an airframe of F-5E/F with RD-33 turbofan with N019 radar with R-27/R-73 package. He died on duty and Russia backed out of MIG-29+MIG-31 deals with IRIAF which were signed by Rafsanjani and Yeltsin.
So the project went to CATIC of China under the title "Silk Route II" in which the avionics package of the most modern J7E were to be installed on F-5E/F with some 30-40 % locally built airframe. That plane became Azarakhsh (the green one) with stupid Sy-80 radar and PL-7C missiles. IRIAF was not happy with it at all because they abhorred F-7 already. So it never went into production.

The next plan was to make the plane even more modernized with a Western-origin avionics package. At that time Chinese NRIET which is part of CATIC China somehow started copying LEONARDO GRIFO radars of Italian origin. Some people including me believe that Italians sold their designs to CATIC for hefty prices because they would not want to sell anything to rogue nations directly. Grifo-S7 became NRIET KLJ-7 (FC-1/JF-17), Grifo-E became KLJ-7A AESA (J-31) and GRIFO-346 became SAIRAN (Iran) Bayyenat-II on Kowsar-I (Chinese designation is KLJ-6F probably???). The design is exact replica including the number and layout of T/R modules. It's quite a modern system with a Detection/Track range of 120/94 KM for 1m2 RCS target. It has look down shoot down capability and SAR of 1m2 (better than SU-35S's IRBIS), and has an internal ECM package. It's currently being used by M-346 and at one point was even considered for YAK-131. Technically it can track even a F-18EF at around 100 KM and fire a salvo of R-77AE/PL-12/PL-15 at it.

Because of sanctions on Iran during Ahmadinejad era, Chinese left and HESA was contracted by IRIAF to carry on the Silk Route II Project. They made some radical changes to the design such as the plan changed to the point that F-5E/F basic airframe will be modified with twin stabilizers and the airintakes will be squared up to gain high AOA and they will be under the wings and locally produced OWJ turbojets will be installed on the plane. According to the extremely detailed work published in key.aero every prototype had an increasing % of locally built airframes like Saeghe-II in 2015 was upto 70 % locally built.

The plan failed because (A) IRIAF had no money to supply to HESA for further work (B) The OWJ Turbojets were not powerful enough to extract fast pitch/yaw/roll for which the airframe was modified. Russia only supplied ~50 RD-33 in early 2000s which went to MIG-29 9.12 fleet despite the fact that order was for 250 RD-33 to be used on Shafagh and Saeghe-I/II. So Saegheh-I/II project got bundled up in 2016-2017 but somehow through lobbyism it was "inducted" into service at Tabriz TAB-2. HESA moved to Kowsar-I which is a mixture of few 100% locally built airframes while others use some % of local parts. According to BT the plane that was shown during its unveiling was almost 100% domestically built, was a bit larger the F-5F, it had a totally different internal structural layout (can be seen) to accommodate heavy avionics equipment. It has a modern radar (mentioned above)+ECM, Double Duplex Datalink to send and receive track-info with UCAVs/GWACS/other fighters which was confirmed by HESA-head himself. The avionics architecture consists of 4 x system computers for Weapons, Mission, and Flight management, and there is also a Ballistic Computer similar to SU-24/34 SVP-24 for precision ground strikes. Something surprising was the use of local FBW for the actuation of control surfaces. The plane turned to be quite modern for Iranian capabilities but its underpowered. You can not take on an EF-2000 or Rafale while climbing at 34000 ft/min. F-5E/F can almost supercruise on J-85II/OWJ and reach 0.9Mach without burners so at low speed or altitude the turbojets can do fine but to defend airspace against invasion you need fast climb and high acceleration which can only come from a AL-31F like a monster. Also it has no BVR missile to use. It can technically easily integrate PL-12/15 or R-77AE but they have not landed in Iran yet. Dowran F-4E/D's were supposed to recieve PL-12 but we have never seen them in pics so no evidence exists while as long as SU-35S does not land in Iran R-77AE is beyond Iranian reach as well.


Kowsar-page-0002.jpg






Qaher is a different story altogether and I have no doubt left that it will become a UCAV in near future. Its easy to do actually with a Tolue-14 or Jahesh-700 turbofan and tons of experiences gained through Saegheh Flying wing mass production.



Why would Iran need IRIAF to deliver AShCM when they can hit a carrier at 700 KM with Zolfaghar Basir AShBM which comes down dancing with separating MaRV from the depressed trajectory or IRGC-N can deliver Salvos of Mehdi Cruise-M from 1000+ KM? Let along anything a swarm of Shahed-136 can ruin the superstructure of a ship including radar.



R-73 cant take track-info from AWG-9 so without that, and using its own seeker for tracking the target the range fo R-73 is barely 15 KM. It becomes useless for F-14A/AM.

According to BT, Babaei Missile Industries (which developed Fakour-90 LRBVR) is producing a coupled cluster imaging, All Aspect WVR missile called "Azarakhsh-I" with 40 KM range (if it takes track info from radar). We have actually seen it with 4 gimbaled motors controlling four fins separately like AIM-9X. That is for Kowsar-I/II, Yasin-Attack version, F-14AM.





F-7 is alive because of a lobby called "Erfanians" otherwise it serves no purpose in IRIAF. It lacks BVR, lacks look down shoot down, lacks ECM, it lacks everything. Mirages have no radars or even pylons. Its lobby is alive from Naghdi-beks time whose sole purpose is to somehow keep it in the fleet without weapons. IRIAF should park it in Kish and use it as a tourism jet to make money because it has no other purpose. F-5E/F is flying with APG-153 with a 36KM track range for 5 m2 target.

These three circus clown jets are a waste of money that should go to Kowsar-II production and expanding the SU-35S fleet beyond even 64. IRIAF needs nothing but SU-35S+ Kowsar-II, Karrar/Qaher based unmanned wingmen and IADS-slaved AWACS. The rest of the fleet except F-14AM does nothing for Iran. MIG-29 9.12 fleet is flying with MIG-23ML's radar and avionics package which can barely track a target of Kowsar size at 55 KM and lacks RWR. It also has no ARH BVR. Although BT is saying that MIG-29 fleet is undergoing a Billion USD MIG-29SMT level upgrade.
Thanks for your expansive insight, most interesting read.

Could you be able to point me to BT's Saeqeh article? I of course read various bits from BT about it, but not sure if it's an article i haven't read.
Also regarding the MiG-29 upgrade, i can't see how it would cost 1 billion for the roughly 25 airframes Iran has, India paid just under 1 bilion but for iirc 62. So probably BT is wrong there. Could you point me to that article as well?
Re the R-77, surely Iran could have a quired a few examples even just for study from friendly countries like Syria or Yemen? The Houthis used the R-77 a SAMs.
As to the R-73 integration, that's a case of giving up too easily again. How hard can it be (comparatively speaking) to built an electronic box to "translate" radar data for the R-73, and integrate the russian HMS. Cuba did it for their MiG-21s.
And i still kinda hope Iran got access to venezuelan F-16 especially the israeli HMS and Python-4 missile to study and reverse engineer them or just items of interest.
Regarding the Azaraksh-1 missile you mention, i might have asked this before but can't recall now, is it this one below (have you seen a picture of the complete missile?), or the one that looks like an AIM-9J (second link- Azaraksh-2?) and strangely is touted as antitank?
https://newsmedia.tasnimnews.com/Tasnim/Uploaded/Image/1400/05/13/14000513173507204233158410.jpg
 
exactly and at the announcement of the base they named f-4 and su-24 no mention of Kowsar or F-14

I guess Su-35S can be termed as a strike fighter considering its superb multirole capability. If IRIAF integrates long-range AShCM (Abu Mehdi, Ghader etc) or LACM to SU-35S then there will be no need to waste money on F-4E/D or SU-24 anymore. Although the "overhaul" mafia in IRIAF would not let these Shahi relics go easily. Even depot-level maintenance means $$ for these groups.

Also, fully armed (hypothetical BVR carrier) Kowsars can pop out and surprise the enemy from a distance. The best case scenario will be that there will be such bases hosting mixed squadrons of SU-35S + Kowsar-I (or II in future) who can pop out and join Gashtzan F-14AM and Loyal Wingmen (Armed Karrar or Shaheds)
su-35 can't carry as heavy load as su-24 or su-34 and i think central pylon on f-4 can carry heavier load than any pylon on Su-35
 
exactly and at the announcement of the base they named f-4 and su-24 no mention of Kowsar or F-14

If you look at the poster pic I posted, it clearly shows SU-35S in the middle, Kowsar/F-5 airframe, and F-4E/D on the sides.

No F-14 or MIG-29 is shown.

su-35 can't carry as heavy load as su-24 or su-34 and i think central pylon on f-4 can carry heavier load than any pylon on Su-35

Weight means nothing because no way IRIAF will use SU-35S to deliver bombs, even with glide kits installed bombs have less ranges, and using SU-35S to deliver them means they will have to fly close to targets, making them vulnerable to enemy interceptors and SAMs. They are too valuable to endanger this way. Meanwhile, if they are to be used for A2G or in a naval role, they can carry Yakhonts or KH-31/35 so they can easily carry Ghader (300 KM) or even Abu Mehdi (1000 KM). India installed Brahmos on same airframe.
 
If you look at the poster pic I posted, it clearly shows SU-35S in the middle, Kowsar/F-5 airframe, and F-4E/D on the sides.

No F-14 or MIG-29 is shown.



Weight means nothing because no way IRIAF will use SU-35S to deliver bombs, even with glide kits installed bombs have less ranges, and using SU-35S to deliver them means they will have to fly close to targets, making them vulnerable to enemy interceptors and SAMs. They are too valuable to endanger this way. Meanwhile, if they are to be used for A2G or in a naval role, they can carry Yakhonts or KH-31/35 so they can easily carry Ghader (300 KM) or even Abu Mehdi (1000 KM). India installed Brahmos on same airframe.
Work on aeroballistic missile project
 
Weight means nothing because no way IRIAF will use SU-35S to deliver bombs, even with glide kits installed bombs have less ranges, and using SU-35S to deliver them means they will have to fly close to targets, making them vulnerable to enemy interceptors and SAMs. They are too valuable to endanger this way. Meanwhile, if they are to be used for A2G or in a naval role, they can carry Yakhonts or KH-31/35 so they can easily carry Ghader (300 KM) or even Abu Mehdi (1000 KM). India installed Brahmos on same airframe.
that's why i think its not a strike fighter
 
Work on aeroballistic missile project

IRGCAF has tested Fajr-4 ALBM from their modernized SU-22M4.

Although even if IRGCAF succeeded, I do not think they are gonna share it with IRIAF

that's why i think its not a strike fighter

You are saying that SU-35S launches Kalibr Long range CM, KH-31, KH-35, Yakhoonts AShM but is not a strike fighter? but somehow a Dowran F-4 E/D that can launch Ghader AShCM and Ya-Ali LACM, is a strike fighter?
 
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Also regarding the MiG-29 upgrade, i can't see how it would cost 1 billion for the roughly 25 airframes Iran has, India paid just under 1 bilion but for iirc 62. So probably BT is wrong there. Could you point me to that article as well?

BT just said 19 MIG-29 will be brought to SMT standard.

1 Billion USD is my own guess for upgradations based on the fact that 30 SU-24MK will be converted to SU-24M2 (Fencer D) standards as well.

- Airframes will be brought to zero-hour life status. IRIAF has extensive experience in refurbishing the airframes though but I believe Russians might do something more extensive like Central Rib getting a fuel tank like in any SMT upgrade.

- New RD-33 will be installed, Iranian MIG-29 are running on 20 years old RD-33 now.

- New Zhuk-ME radars will be installed along with RWR, ECM, Jammer package.

- hundreds of R-77AE will be procured because IRIAF barely has 30 years old stock of 150 x SARH R-27T so the major budget will be eaten by R-77AE. The price tag is around 1 million per missile, so if 19 aircrafts have to have a stock of some 300 R-77AE then it means 300 million just going there. Mind you I am not counting the R-77AE which are gonna come with SU-35S.

- Cockpits will be upgraded with MFD.

Will this actually happen ? I have no idea because Russian-Iranian relations are not sustainable.


Re the R-77, surely Iran could have a quired a few examples even just for study from friendly countries like Syria or Yemen? The Houthis used the R-77 a SAMs.

No such evidence exists atleast in print or visual media

Regarding the Azaraksh-1 missile you mention, i might have asked this before but can't recall now, is it this one below (have you seen a picture of the complete missile?), or the one that looks like an AIM-9J (second link- Azaraksh-2?) and strangely is touted as antitank?
https://newsmedia.tasnimnews.com/Tasnim/Uploaded/Image/1400/05/13/14000513173507204233158410.jpg


As to the R-73 integration, that's a case of giving up too easily again. How hard can it be (comparatively speaking) to built an electronic box to "translate" radar data for the R-73, and integrate the russian HMS. Cuba did it for their MiG-21s.

Cuban MIG-21MF is flying with Russian Radar. F-14A/AM in IRIAF still uses AWG-9 which has been upgraded with ~840 new local parts but SSJO which carried out the F-14AM conversion according to BT could not integrate R-73 to take track coordinates from AWG-9 and without radar track cueing the IR seeker of the missile, the missile itself barely can track an IR image of a target at 18 km so it's useless on F-14AM, F-4E/D and Kowsar-I.

BT writes it on the subject here about an AIM-9X equivalent all aspect (90 degrees boresight) CCD seeking "Azarakhsh" sidewinder being tested with four motors controlling canards.

https://www.key.aero/article/how-iran-manages-keep-its-f-14-tomcats-flying

the four motor controlling the canards is confirmed visually in this Azarakhsh missile, it has no rollerons like a conventional AIM-9P

1659253255470-png.866602


he also gives an extensive account on the Fakour-90 Long-Range BVR integration of F-14AM.

https://www.key.aero/article/new-claws-persian-cats

1656845291380-png.858818


And i still kinda hope Iran got access to venezuelan F-16 especially the israeli HMS and Python-4 missile to study and reverse engineer them or just items of interest.

SAIRAN in Iran has been producing HMD for helicopters for years now and head of SAIRAN has recently confirmed that HMD is being installed in fighters as well. We need nothing from Venezuela in this regard.

Kowsar-page-0007.jpg
 
BT just said 19 MIG-29 will be brought to SMT standard.

1 Billion USD is my own guess for upgradations based on the fact that 30 SU-24MK will be converted to SU-24M2 (Fencer D) standards as well.

- Airframes will be brought to zero-hour life status. IRIAF has extensive experience in refurbishing the airframes though but I believe Russians might do something more extensive like Central Rib getting a fuel tank like in any SMT upgrade.

- New RD-33 will be installed, Iranian MIG-29 are running on 20 years old RD-33 now.

- New Zhuk-ME radars will be installed along with RWR, ECM, Jammer package.

- hundreds of R-77AE will be procured because IRIAF barely has 30 years old stock of 150 x SARH R-27T so the major budget will be eaten by R-77AE. The price tag is around 1 million per missile, so if 19 aircrafts have to have a stock of some 300 R-77AE then it means 300 million just going there. Mind you I am not counting the R-77AE which are gonna come with SU-35S.

- Cockpits will be upgraded with MFD.

Will this actually happen ? I have no idea because Russian-Iranian relations are not sustainable.
BT had too much heavy food and wine the night before so he had dreamed it.
who bring the status of 30+ year old aircraft to zero hour without rebuilding them from scratch. and since when Russia will do such thing for us as i said they see us as competitor not a partner.
 
BT had too much heavy food and wine the night before so he had dreamed it.

He said this along with SU-35S news. Now I know Flankers have not landed in Iran but officals have confirmed this and Oghab-44 poster showed the SU-35S in the middle. BT is a stupid troll but his news are credible about the IRIAF atleast.

who bring the status of 30+ year old aircraft to zero hour without rebuilding them from scratch.

Not exactly. F-14A of IRIAF underwent extensive structural rebuilding in early 2000s. I remember during the IMF days there was an article in Mashreghnews I think which had details of the structural rebuilding to cover for war torns on them.

and since when Russia will do such thing for us as i said they see us as competitor not a partner.

Dynamics has changed since the Ukraine war.
 
Not exactly. F-14A of IRIAF underwent extensive structural rebuilding in early 2000s. I remember during the IMF days there was an article in Mashreghnews I think which had details of the structural rebuilding to cover for war torns on them.
these type of rebuilding will extend the life of the airplane , maybe extend it for a decade or two depend of how extensive they are , but honestly its the first time that i heard they bring the status of the aircraft back to zero hours of flight
Dynamics has changed since the Ukraine war.
well i here that a lot in recent month but i don't believe it until i see it.
i believe it if russia gave us those RD-33 before we build our own medium turbofan engine
 
these type of rebuilding will extend the life of the airplane , maybe extend it for a decade or two depend of how extensive they are , but honestly its the first time that i heard they bring the status of the aircraft back to zero hours of flight

Call it zero hour or extensive rebuilding but that will be done on MIG-29 according to BT.

I would have it be brought to SMT standard or IRIAF should sell the fleet to Syria or DPRK whoever wants it and spend the money on SU-35S procurement. Even if we get 4 x SU-35S (or 15 Kowsar-I/II) in their price, they be more useful then benign fleet of MIGs. The IRIAF MIG fleet is a joke with Phazotron RLPK-29 radar from MIG-23ML. Plane has no ARH attack and can barely track a modern fighter plane at 50-60 KM.

well i here that a lot in recent month but i don't believe it until i see it.
i believe it if russia gave us those RD-33 before we build our own medium turbofan engine

before blaming Russia we need to understand does the leadership of Iran itself is interested in developing IRIAF. you can't get anything from anyone if you yourself do not want it first. The same leadership that allowed lobbies to destroy IRIAF is not trustworthy to me for making good decisions.
 
Call it zero hour or extensive rebuilding but that will be done on MIG-29 according to BT.

I would have it be brought to SMT standard or IRIAF should sell the fleet to Syria or DPRK whoever wants it and spend the money on SU-35S procurement.
i wonder will 1,000,000,000 for upgrading those 19 mig-29 to any standard worth it?
that price can land you 15-20 brand new Mig-35
fleet of MIGs. The IRIAF MIG fleet is a joke with Phazotron RLPK-29 radar from MIG-23ML.
please don't mention that radar , i was the first person here that pointed out what a joke it is , it boils my blood that they didn't replaced that radar with the one on kowsar . at least that one has feature of a modern radar , the one on our mig-29 i doubt even be better than the one on our f-5 in practical use

before blaming Russia we need to understand does the leadership of Iran itself is interested in developing IRIAF. you can't get anything from anyone if you yourself do not want it first. The same leadership that allowed lobbies to destroy IRIAF is not trustworthy to me for making good decisions.
didn't Iran made deal with Russia for air-force ?
didn't Iran made deal for air defense ?
didn't Iran made deal for navy?

I accept russia have changed its view of Iran from competitor to partner after i see the result
 
i wonder will 1,000,000,000 for upgrading those 19 mig-29 to any standard worth it?
that price can land you 15-20 brand new Mig-35

MIG-35 means new training, infrastructure while upgradation of 19 airframes will be done at Shahinshahr facility.

please don't mention that radar , i was the first person here that pointed out what a joke it is , it boils my blood that they didn't replaced that radar with the one on kowsar . at least that one has feature of a modern radar , the one on our mig-29 i doubt even be better than the one on our f-5 in practical use

I have been protesting against radar-less MF-1 and weak radar-MiGs since IMF. Practically, they can put Kowsar-I's combat suite on MIG-29 9.12 but then it means whatever little SARH BVR Migs have in form of R-27ER will be gone since Iran has no R-77AE or Pl-12/15. Equation will change massively once R-77AE lands in iran with SU-35S.

Kowsar-I's avionics, radar, TDL is brilliant but the plane is underpowered. I am not sure if the radar can coupled to R-77

didn't Iran made deal with Russia for air-force ?

Recieved MIG-29, SU-25, SU-24

didn't Iran made deal for air defense ?

Recieved S-200, S-300, SA-6, Pantsir-S1, Tor-M1, Avtobaza and probably BuK as well

didn't Iran made deal for navy?

Received three Kilos, Hoot Torpedoes.

I accept russia have changed its view of Iran from competitor to partner after i see the result

Agree to that
 
MIG-35 means new training, infrastructure while upgradation of 19 airframes will be done at Shahinshahr facility.
they are really are not that different, its like peugeot pars and peugeot 405 and Samand .
 
I have been protesting against radar-less MF-1 and weak radar-MiGs since IMF. Practically, they can put Kowsar-I's combat suite on MIG-29 9.12 but then it means whatever little SARH BVR Migs have in form of R-27ER will be gone since Iran has no R-77AE or Pl-12/15. Equation will change massively once R-77AE lands in iran with SU-35S.
the question is does 9.12b capable of using er version of the R-27AA-10 Alamo-A
and do we have any working R-27ER

Recieved MIG-29, SU-25, SU-24
half of it with no support
Recieved S-200, S-300, SA-6, Pantsir-S1, Tor-M1, Avtobaza and probably BuK as well
the real deal was on s-300 that we knew how it ended and no pantsir for Iran and there is not a single buk in Iran have been spotted
Received three Kilos, Hoot Torpedoes.
again with no support
 

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