IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Messerschmitt]

If that is the case then I cannot argue any more. Future challenge is not about 4 gen fighters any more. This has been shown in latest Pitch Black exercise in Australia this year with 6 Singaporean F15 SG can be eliminated by just 2 Australian F35 where those 6 F15SG cannot even detect 2 Australian F35 until the missile reach the plane (simulation).

Detection shouldn’t be a major issue in Iran’s case though due to its extensive EW radar network. Iranian interceptor aircraft wouldn’t have to solely rely on their own radars‘ detection capabilities, as in that simulated exercise, but would receive target coordinates from Iran’s IADS.

 

[Flotilla]

Ofcourse they think about their own interests and are slow in projects or even leave projects. But still there are more common interests which bring Iran, China and Russia closer to each other compared to other countries. Iran works with Russia on nuclear and transit projects and now also on defence. There are some common interests in Caspian sea, central Asia as well. However Iran knows that they can't trust them blindly, but we've to work together where interests align.

I agree. Iran doesn´t need to be close ally of them. China needs Iran because the more military capability of Iran the less pressure of US assets in far east, and Russia needs Iran because Russia has lost many of old customers of their weaponry and industry because of the sanctions. It is the moment of Iran for squeezing Russia and even China in many ways.

 

[SalarHaqq]

With Iran already big defense budget, I believe that SU35 acquisition will not jeopardize Iran aerospace program. Oil price will likely keep high while Iran SU 35 acquisition is also conducted in barter scheme with Russia

This is true. It's not an either-or situation at all. The suggestion that an acquisition of 24 to 64 Su-35 would somehow kill Iran's indigenous fighter programs is a fallacy and a baseless fabrication. Much as China's continued purchasing of fighter jets from the USSR and Russia did not prevent it from launching and steadily expanding its domestic industry, Iran would proceed in a similar manner.

That the Su-35 would grant an additional punch to Iran's air defence capabilities was demonstrated by knowledgeable users, whilst no credible counter was offered by anyone.

 

[Hack-Hook]

This is true. It's not an either-or situation at all. The suggestion that an acquisition of 24 to 64 Su-35 would somehow kill Iran's indigenous fighter programs is a fallacy and a baseless fabrication. Much as China's continued purchasing of fighter jets from the USSR and Russia did not prevent it from launching and steadily expanding its domestic industry, Iran would proceed in a similar manner.

That the Su-35 would grant an additional punch to Iran's air defence capabilities was demonstrated by knowledgeable users, whilst no credible counter was offered by anyone.

no the impression that they divert money from somewhere else to buy them is fallacy . Iran budget already have a chronic disease of not being achieved , and all fields have experienced the problem of not receiving the money assigned for them.
a question were was the last year that Iran budget achieved ?
when was the last year that military received all the money that it was supposed to get according to the budget ?
china bought 20 jet from Russia for political reason , the number compared to more than 1000s Chinese made jet and 100s of chines 5th generation jet is nothing.

and the credible counter and evidence against the benefit of Su-35 offered, you can just go back in this thread and see them again , you just decided not to see them . your argument when faced with numbers was , they can assign money from some where else

 

[SalarHaqq]

no the impression that they divert money from somewhere else to buy them is fallacy .

If a decision is made to purchase them, funds will be released from outside the budget. Not "diverted".

Iran budget already have a chronic disease of not being achieved , and all fields have experienced the problem of not receiving the money assigned for them.
a question were was the last year that Iran budget achieved ?
when was the last year that military received all the money that it was supposed to get according to the budget ?

Irrelevant given that such an acquisition is not supposed to be funded via the regular yearly defence budget to boot.

china bought 20 jet from Russia for political reason , the number compared to more than 1000s Chinese made jet and 100s of chines 5th generation jet is nothing.

China bought over a hundred fighter jets from the USSR and Russia even as it was producing its own. Buying limited numbers of fighters does not necessarily imply stopping domestic production. To claim otherwise in the context of the Islamic Republic of Iran is to push a fallacy.

and the credible counter and evidence against the benefit of Su-35 offered, you can just go back in this thread and see them again , you just decided not to see them .

Nothing of the sort was offered.

your argument when faced with numbers was , they can assign money from some where else

It's not that they can it's that this is how it's supposed to be done. The notion that an extraordinary weapons procurement would have to be financed through the regular defence budget is another comical fallacy.

 

[Abid123]

how we will be able to continue our indigenous program after buying those 24 already outdated airplane that nobody wants ?

Oh please.... Did you just call the SU-35 "outdated"? I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

I am not a fan of the SU-35 but would not call it "outdated". Not even close to being "outdated".

The SU-35 presents a great threat to any 4th generation aircraft out there.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Irrelevant given that such an acquisition is not supposed to be funded via the regular yearly defence budget to boot.

on that you are wrong , every expenditure is according to the budget and the su-35 buying is also from that around 4 milliard that is supposed to be spended for increasing the capabilities of armed forces .

China bought over a hundred fighter jets from the USSR and Russia even as it was producing its own. Buying fighters does not necessarily imply stopping domestic production. To claim otherwise is to push a fallacy and a lie.

at the time of ussr china was producing shit . don't forget that fact . they didn't have any engine of their own , they had no radar of their own , what they were producing was called j-7.
and don't compare china budget with ours

It's not that they can it's that this is how it's supposed to be done. The notion that an extraordinary weapons procurement would have to be financed through the regular defence budget is another comical fallacy.

not regular , a 4 milliard $ that is put aside for increasing the power of armed forc

 

[Hack-Hook]

Oh please.... Did you just call the SU-35 "outdated"? I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

I am not a fan of the SU-35 but would not call it "outdated". Not even close to being "outdated".

The SU-35 presents a great threat to any 4th generation aircraft out there.

the Radar is outdated , the IRST is outdated , electronic warfare system is also out dated and belong to 20 years ago now tell me what is advanced and modern about the airplane ?
the latest generation of the airplane maybe introduced in 2014 but the component for the modernization were designed in 2002-2007 airplane was introduced in 2007 with those component , the radar belong to 2004 and is PESA not AESA and can be defeated in E-warfare against more modern radars , the OLS-35 belong to early 2000s and use the technology of then .

 

[SalarHaqq]

not regular , a 4 milliard $ that is put aside for increasing the power of armed forc

Extraordinary procurements aren't supposed to be funded through the above either.

at the time of ussr china was producing shit . don't forget that fact . they didn't have any engine of their own , they had no radar of their own , what they were producing was called j-7.

Importing engines and radars en masse (nearly 2500 J-7 were manufactured) did not prevent China's domestic industries from progressing.

The Su-35 is not a replacement to indigenous Iranian programs, it would be a complement. A limited batch of Su-35's will not satisfy Iran's air force needs over the next decades, so domestic programs would be guaranteed to be maintained.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Extraordinary procurements aren't supposed to be funded through the above either.

and how you knew ?
did we bought those Mig-29 with extra money diverted from somewhere else ?

Only strengthens the point: importing engines and radars en masse (nearly 2500 J-7 were manufactured) did not prevent China's domestic industries from progressing.

china military budget vs our military budget is the key difference

The Su-35 is not a replacement to indigenuous Iranian programs, it would be a complement. A limited batch of Su-35's will not satisfy Iran's air force needs over the next decades, so domestic programs would be guaranteed to be maintained.

its against iran guidelines and sadly will satisfy some politician in parliament . the air force will never be satisfied with any air craft and want more

 

[Stryker1982]

So good chance this Su-35 is real? IAF will be big mad

 

[tsunset]

China never proposed anything to Iran beside J-10A, an ultra obsolete fighter

China will never sell anything to Iran, even if there is a contract, they will not deliver or abide by any contract

China is squeezing countries that are victims of white imperialism (Russia and Iran) and should never be trusted beside trading, Iran literally gives them crude, they will not pay

Russia have a better expertise on turbojets than China, but China got better electronics, Iran also have decent electronics but no turbojet

Iran should cooperate with Russia and get access to turbojet technology, this is what is making Iran stuck on aircraft field for decades

But also Iran should never expect something from Russia, I'll change my words if there is a concrete deal with acts, otherwise right now Russia still never delivered something to Iran and no tot took place

 

[OldTwilight]

the Radar is outdated , the IRST is outdated , electronic warfare system is also out dated and belong to 20 years ago now tell me what is advanced and modern about the airplane ?
the latest generation of the airplane maybe introduced in 2014 but the component for the modernization were designed in 2002-2007 airplane was introduced in 2007 with those component , the radar belong to 2004 and is PESA not AESA and can be defeated in E-warfare against more modern radars , the OLS-35 belong to early 2000s and use the technology of then .

so what is alternative !?

You can't except any extordinary thing from ISI totalitirms dictatorship .... modern air craft need software , but as a software engineer who decline an offer from nethersland ( foolish act by me ) , I can say almost no good software engineer can work in Iran governmental and military section ... the payment is bad ( less than a waiter in UAE ) and the treatment is even worse ....

I don't know about other section but among engineers , we developers are most rebellious people and have highest paycheck but even with that, I myself after 7 years of continues software engineering carrier has no hope to be able buy a small house in near future ...

so, don't except miracle from Iranian engineers with average paycheck of 300$ per month ...

And lets me tell you I'm certain that half of these weapons they unveiled don't have any software test suit , and has low quality code as heart of their software ....
I'm currently working with a bank as contractor , they don't knew about testing or even antique software development methods ... working with them is hard and the payment is below average ( even compare now half-dead private sector ) ....

 

[SalarHaqq]

and how you knew ?

By resorting to logic.

china military budget vs our military budget is the key difference

What matter is the political will to entertain domestic capabilities and there's no difference here between Iran, the DPRK and China.

Funds for a limited purchase of Su-35 will be made available on top of regular expenditures if a decision to this effect is made. Would still represent no more than a fraction of what countries surrounding Iran have spent on imported fighter jets over the years.

its against iran guidelines and sadly will satisfy some politician in parliament . the air force will never be satisfied with any air craft and want more

The guidelines don't prohibit token auxiliary procurements from abroad in a complementary role. Iran imported a considerable number of planes from Russia before, even as domestic industries were up and running and being developed steadily. Sardar Baqeri stated during his visit to Moscow that Iran has contracts with Russia for further military aircraft.

 

[Hack-Hook]

By resorting to logic.

so you don't knew

What matter is the political will to entertain domestic capabilities and there's no difference here between Iran, the DPRK and China.

Funds for a limited purchase of Su-35 will be made available on top of regular expenditures if a decision to this effect is made. Would still represent no more than a fraction of what countries surrounding Iran have spent on imported fighter jets over the years.

again claim about thing , you assume but actually don't knew .