IRIAF | News and Discussions

[VEVAK]

No, it was not. Despite what people might think the RQ UAV series was not 'stealth'. The flying wing design does have some inherent low radar obsersable traits, but that was well known since WW II. The flying wing itself was known from the 1920s when every aviation pioneer in the US, Europe, and Russia experimented with it to some degrees. Prior to the B-2, the flying wing's main advantage was range over any radar 'evading' trait.


Neither is US airpower since then.


We do not rely on luck. I posted on this forum many explanations on US SIGINT efforts. It has been some yrs but they are still relevant regarding general information. You can be whatever next yr's salary you have, that we have extensive knowledge of Iran's EM signatures.


More than most suspect. Even with 'only' two aircraft carriers.


We will just bypass you. And yes, we are that good. My first assignment was the F-111. When I was stationed in the UK, I learned the Soviets feared and hated the 'Vark. At every arms negotiation, the Soviets always tried to have the 'Vark removed from the country. We always told them to STFU. Post Cold War, Adolf Tolkachev confirmed to US that during the Cold War yrs, the Soviets literally had no defense against the F-111. I was reassigned to the F-16 during Desert Storm and saw how lethal the F-111 became against Iraqi tanks.

By what standards do you measured Iran's air defense as 'too'? Compared to who and with what combat experience against US? We have learned much since the F-111 and Desert Storm. That 1960s jet proved itself against opponents who were qualitatively and quantitavely higher than Iran or at least on a par with Iran. Today, we do not need to carry the heavy bombs that the F-111 carried against Iraqi tanks. Five hundred or even 250 pounders with precision guided heads will do the job. Iran will not be facing just the USN but the entirety of US airpower from CONUS. Iran have no defense against the combination of high altitude B-2s and B-52s, and low altitude penetration of the B-1. Those 'too' that you mentioned? They are meaningless to US. And I do not say with any malice, just objectivity based upon my yrs of service.

Military academies everywhere are watching this US-Iran scenario.

Yea and how useful were all your F-22, F-117, B-2, B-1 & B-52's during the 1st stage of your 1/4 Billion USD Millennial challenge?

During Desert Storm all U.S. did was drive it's tanks all across Iraq really quickly to scare Saddam and get him to withdraw Iraqi armored battalion back into Iraq!
In the early 90's stealth was relatively new and by the most part the only aircrafts going deep into protected Iraqi airspace were stealth F-117.
U.S. B-52's didn't really need to fly deep into Iraqi airspace to takeout Iraqi tanks standing in the path of coalition forces near the boarder! So don't turn Desert Storm into something that it wasn't because if the U.S. could have taken Iraq in the early 90's they would have! It took the U.S. another decade of constant bombings to clear Iraqi Air Defenses so they can send none stealth aircraft into their Air Space whenever and wherever they wanted!
And unlike Iran's missiles today Iraqi missiles where never really a threat to coalition forces and with an Air Force that would even run from Iran's poorly maintained air force, Saddam had no real retaliatory capabilities!

Today it doesn't matter how nice American fighter are and they are nice and far superior in every aspect to anything Iran has! It's simply isn't going to stop the barrage of Iranian precision guided missiles flying towards bases that would be launching fighters against Iranian territory! And yes U.S. anti ballistic Missiles will likely intercept a good number of Iranian missiles but how many of these missiles is the U.S. going to deploy? 1000's? tens of 1000's I think NOT!

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Frankly, it's delusion here !!!

Iraq 2003 is not comparable to Iraq 2003, there are not serious people here. Whether you like it or not with the arrival of Bavar 373 soon, Iran is the club of the 5 largest air defense of the world. The number of different radar and air defense system is hugely more powerful than Iraq 2003, no comparison possible.

Intelligent artillery like the Mesbah system will be very effective in the last seconds of riposte. Iran is very powerful in the elctronic war. Iran is the most efficient and experienced army in the world and Persians are great tacticians.

People have listened too much to American science fiction film. In the movies, the US still wins their battle against extraterrests much more powerful than them. It's a real joke.

Even the fighter jets of Iran is much more powerful than the few aircraft had Iraq 2003. And on the ground IMPOSSIBLE! Iran can mobilize in just 6 million people on the ground in a short time

And the navy, powerful and very experienced and still there, no comparison possible with Iraq 2003

Really, there are not serious people here

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

Very potent, layered air defense system. Iranians have done their homework.

im sure one of them will get it

 

[gambit]

well by that standard then it seems that Israel defense lost to Hezbollah rockets in 2006

I have no ties to Israel in particular or Jews in general, but I will say that if Israel wanted, Hezbollah would be gone.

so B-2 is not considered Stealth ?

The B-2 is low radar observable. It took what is inherent in the flying wing design and made it better in terms of RCS reduction.

but you forget to enter our OTH radars into your equation,...

I have explained the weaknesses of over-the-horizon (OTH) radar on this forum before. It is not and NEVER will be the solution to 'stealth'. Your government is misleading you.

...all of our AD are mobile so when you once entered an area the next time you will not be sure if there is an AD or not.

There are limits to where an air defense unit can move.

For starter, its vehicle type is one limit. Another is if the unit is in a network, it cannot move very far lest its movement create a gap. Now that you have a clue, can you think of any more limits? It is not that hard.

...so what if iran do the same to your carriers and bases in the region??

You can try. As soon as the Lincoln and escorts are in the region -- take them out. Show proof.

Yea and how useful were all your F-22, F-117, B-2, B-1 & B-52's during the 1st stage of your 1/4 Billion USD Millennial challenge?

What make you think you can replicate that exercise? From the way you talk, it is %99.999 that you have no military experience. And I say that kindly.

When you create an exercise, you must take into consideration how capable is the real potential adversary and since you can never know %100, the safety margin is to enhance the capabilities of the force that is simulating that potential adversary. Do you see where am heading here?

During Desert Storm all U.S. did was drive it's tanks all across Iraq really quickly to scare Saddam and get him to withdraw Iraqi armored battalion back into Iraq!

If that was 'all' we did, and since it worked, you should be careful. Precisely because it worked.

In the early 90's stealth was relatively new and by the most part the only aircrafts going deep into protected Iraqi airspace were stealth F-117.

Buddy, the F-22 and F-35 are as revolutionary to air combat as the F-117 was. You have no idea today as the Iraqis was clueless yesterday.

 

[SubWater]

I have no ties to Israel in particular or Jews in general, but I will say that if Israel wanted, Hezbollah would be gone.

They wanted but they are unable to do that

The B-2 is low radar observable. It took what is inherent in the flying wing design and made it better in terms of RCS reduction.

B-2 is too expensive in compare to what it can do

I have explained the weaknesses of over-the-horizon (OTH) radar on this forum before. It is not and NEVER will be the solution to 'stealth'. Your government is misleading you.

OTH is only one of options which its existence help Iran for pre warnings.

There are limits to where an air defense unit can move.

For starter, its vehicle type is one limit. Another is if the unit is in a network, it cannot move very far lest its movement create a gap. Now that you have a clue, can you think of any more limits? It is not that hard.

clearly that Gap is for Iran not for attacking forces. mobile air defenses create big ambiguity for enemy not the gap.

 

[VEVAK]

I have no ties to Israel in particular or Jews in general, but I will say that if Israel wanted, Hezbollah would be gone.


The B-2 is low radar observable. It took what is inherent in the flying wing design and made it better in terms of RCS reduction.


I have explained the weaknesses of over-the-horizon (OTH) radar on this forum before. It is not and NEVER will be the solution to 'stealth'. Your government is misleading you.


There are limits to where an air defense unit can move.

For starter, its vehicle type is one limit. Another is if the unit is in a network, it cannot move very far lest its movement create a gap. Now that you have a clue, can you think of any more limits? It is not that hard.


You can try. As soon as the Lincoln and escorts are in the region -- take them out. Show proof.


What make you think you can replicate that exercise? From the way you talk, it is %99.999 that you have no military experience. And I say that kindly.

When you create an exercise, you must take into consideration how capable is the real potential adversary and since you can never know %100, the safety margin is to enhance the capabilities of the force that is simulating that potential adversary. Do you see where am heading here?


If that was 'all' we did, and since it worked, you should be careful. Precisely because it worked.


Buddy, the F-22 and F-35 are as revolutionary to air combat as the F-117 was. You have no idea today as the Iraqis was clueless yesterday.

1st off you are talking to an Iranian and for us Military service is mandatory so I and most Iranians my age have at least limited military experience because it really wasn't a freaking choice for us!

2ndly If your under the illusion that Iran is going to try to replicate your 2002 sim then your delusional!!! Back in 2002 the most accurate Iranian BM was the Fatteh-110B with a 150 meter CEP at 150km and the rest of Iran's BM capabilities had CEP's of 700meters or greater and beyond 800km the CEP's were so inaccurate that we could barely target bases and small cities
In 2002 Iran's sensor, networking & UAV capabilities were extremely limited both in terms of quantity and quality.At that time most of our night time capabilities were by the most part limited to standard Sony digital camera's with their filters removed and a few IR LED's. Iran's Air Defense capabilities were nothing even close to what they are today and aside from a few anti ship Cruise Missiles like the Raad that required a Tank for transport and launch only Iran's Air Force was capable of PGM capability for anything beyond artillery range...

My point is Iran capabilities today are NOTHING like the country you played your little simulation with for us to try to replicate your little exercise! Today Iranian BM capabilities of under 10 meter cep at 300km or 20m at 500km or Jet UCAV conducting missions from 500km away are battlefield proven Iranian capabilities and aren't even at the edge of Iran's max capabilities. And taking out Iran's Air Force today will no longer stop Iran's ability to launch PGM at your bases!

And yes U.S. can nuke every City in Iran and Yes the U.S. even with a 1/3 of it's naval fleet can send Iran back to the stone ages.... but NONE of that is gong to stop Iran from launching it's missiles or from closing down the Persian Gulf or hitting Saudi Oil that fuel U.S. Petrodollar!

The U.S. is $22 Trillion USD in debt with the Chinese economy gaining every year and an ever expanding Chinese Military and you Americans are still blinded by your absurd obsession with IRAN that's been going on for half a century!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY is it so hard for you guys to stick to your own continent or at least your own side of the globe!!
What is this convoluted obsession you people have with Iran? Iran hasn't started a war or invaded anyone in over 300 years nor are we threatening to take anyone's territory today! Iran isn't stocking Nukes for any kind of a biblical Armageddon & we even offered you a deal to ensure that we never do! We helped you when you were attacked by people with deluded Whahabbi ideology in Afghanistan & you thanked us by calling us the axis of evil! And unlike your so called allies we are not the ones murdering and chopping up Washington Post Journalists in our embassies! We don't cut off heads in the middle of streets like a bunch of terrorists as your allies do! Unlike the Israeli's we are ratified member of the NPT, CWC & BWC.
Hell your Israeli friends since the founding of their country haven't been able to last a decade without bombing one of their neighbors and your other allies are bombing and creating famine in Yemen using your weapons & funding ISIS & you American's still don't get it!

 

[Arminkh]

1st off you are talking to an Iranian and for us Military service is mandatory so I and most Iranians my age have at least limited military experience because it really wasn't a freaking choice for us!

2ndly If your under the illusion that Iran is going to try to replicate your 2002 sim then your delusional!!! Back in 2002 the most accurate Iranian BM was the Fatteh-110B with a 150 meter CEP at 150km and the rest of Iran's BM capabilities had CEP's of 700meters or greater and beyond 800km the CEP's were so inaccurate that we could barely target bases and small cities
In 2002 Iran's sensor, networking & UAV capabilities were extremely limited both in terms of quantity and quality.At that time most of our night time capabilities were by the most part limited to standard Sony digital camera's with their filters removed and a few IR LED's. Iran's Air Defense capabilities were nothing even close to what they are today and aside from a few anti ship Cruise Missiles like the Raad that required a Tank for transport and launch only Iran's Air Force was capable of PGM capability for anything beyond artillery range...

My point is Iran capabilities today are NOTHING like the country you played your little simulation with for us to try to replicate your little exercise! Today Iranian BM capabilities of under 10 meter cep at 300km or 20m at 500km or Jet UCAV conducting missions from 500km away are battlefield proven Iranian capabilities and aren't even at the edge of Iran's max capabilities. And taking out Iran's Air Force today will no longer stop Iran's ability to launch PGM at your bases!

And yes U.S. can nuke every City in Iran and Yes the U.S. even with a 1/3 of it's naval fleet can send Iran back to the stone ages.... but NONE of that is gong to stop Iran from launching it's missiles or from closing down the Persian Gulf or hitting Saudi Oil that fuel U.S. Petrodollar!

The U.S. is $22 Trillion USD in debt with the Chinese economy gaining every year and an ever expanding Chinese Military and you Americans are still blinded by your absurd obsession with IRAN that's been going on for half a century!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY is it so hard for you guys to stick to your own continent or at least your own side of the globe!!
What is this convoluted obsession you people have with Iran? Iran hasn't started a war or invaded anyone in over 300 years nor are we threatening to take anyone's territory today! Iran isn't stocking Nukes for any kind of a biblical Armageddon & we even offered you a deal to ensure that we never do! We helped you when you were attacked by people with deluded Whahabbi ideology in Afghanistan & you thanked us by calling us the axis of evil! And unlike your so called allies we are not the ones murdering and chopping up Washington Post Journalists in our embassies! We don't cut off heads in the middle of streets like a bunch of terrorists as your allies do! Unlike the Israeli's we are ratified member of the NPT, CWC & BWC.
Hell your Israeli friends since the founding of their country haven't been able to last a decade without bombing one of their neighbors and your other allies are bombing and creating famine in Yemen using your weapons & funding ISIS & you American's still don't get it!

Nicely said.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

Iraq in 1991 and Iraq in 2003, people always forget the differences and how the US didn't enter Iraq's cities in 1991

 

[gambit]

They wanted but they are unable to do that

No, Israel can. There is a difference in 'unable' and 'unwilling'. Being restrained in some ways falls under 'unwilling'.

B-2 is too expensive in compare to what it can do

You leave that to US to decide. For now, you just worry on how to deal with the many options we have.

OTH is only one of options which its existence help Iran for pre warnings.

A nearly useless option.

mobile air defenses create big ambiguity for enemy not the gap.

How 'big' is that gap for US? Keep in mind that Iran have been under satellite surveillance, and it is not as if the US do not have our own air defense system.

Precisely because we do have our own air defense system and that we actually gone to combat against an enemy's air defense system, we do have a pretty good idea of the range each of your air defense unit can go. From that, it is a matter of math to calculate how to destroy each, whether that destruction comes from bombs or cruise missiles. What I said are simplified, the details no one knows. But Iran is going up against an opponent that proven combat experience in terms of wielding technologies and tactics that no one has. An analogy is that if you know about IR as a concept but do not have a practical application of IR sensor, you cannot fight an opponent who does have practical applications of IR sensor and successfully used it in warfare. Now, I expect you to focus in on the IR aspect and point out how Iran is capable of producing IR sensors, etc...etc..., but that would mean you missed the point of the analogy.

If you are a religious person and believe the gods do inject themselves into the affairs of humans, you better pray that there will not be a shooting fight between Iran and US. I understand that you are as much nationalistic as I am, you for Iran and I for US, but am talking objectively here -- Iran WILL lose that fight.

 

[Mithridates]

No, Israel can. There is a difference in 'unable' and 'unwilling'. Being restrained in some ways falls under 'unwilling'.


You leave that to US to decide. For now, you just worry on how to deal with the many options we have.


A nearly useless option.


How 'big' is that gap for US? Keep in mind that Iran have been under satellite surveillance, and it is not as if the US do not have our own air defense system.

Precisely because we do have our own air defense system and that we actually gone to combat against an enemy's air defense system, we do have a pretty good idea of the range each of your air defense unit can go. From that, it is a matter of math to calculate how to destroy each, whether that destruction comes from bombs or cruise missiles. What I said are simplified, the details no one knows. But Iran is going up against an opponent that proven combat experience in terms of wielding technologies and tactics that no one has. An analogy is that if you know about IR as a concept but do not have a practical application of IR sensor, you cannot fight an opponent who does have practical applications of IR sensor and successfully used it in warfare. Now, I expect you to focus in on the IR aspect and point out how Iran is capable of producing IR sensors, etc...etc..., but that would mean you missed the point of the analogy.

If you are a religious person and believe the gods do inject themselves into the affairs of humans, you better pray that there will not be a shooting fight between Iran and US. I understand that you are as much nationalistic as I am, you for Iran and I for US, but am talking objectively here -- Iran WILL lose that fight.

but again if we neutralize carriers and your air bases around us your capabilities would fall even behind the saudis.

 

[TheImmortal]

In this thread....Arm Chair generals on both sides talk about how they will win a hypothetical war.

What a waste of human energy.

 

[gambit]

but again if we neutralize carriers and your air bases around us your capabilities would fall even behind the saudis.

Might as well say 'if' Iran have the Death Star. That is how absurd it sounds.

 

[Blue In Green]

Might as well say 'if' Iran have the Death Star. That is how absurd it sounds.

Do you not realize how idealistic (and woefully arrogant) you objectively sound? If anyone were to take your word as Gospel then any AND ALL Iranian counter-attacks or means of deterrence are meager at best according to your 'information'. Hell, why is Iran even trying? Why don't we uber American military magicians just make Iran submit militarily? We killed millions in Vietnam, millions in other wars around the world what makes Iran so different if they're so damn weak?

Get off your hollow high-horse Gambit, the Iranians obviously aren't fuking around here (this wont end well for them or us, they have the ability to drag this conflict out, our F-35 wonder bread planes wont win this for us). We need to stop being duplicitous with them and maybe MAYBE we can garner some well earned good will with Iranians for a change. Or just go to war, put our money where our mouth is. Seems like we can take on the whole freaking world the way your describe American military strength....

No, Israel can. There is a difference in 'unable' and 'unwilling'. Being restrained in some ways falls under 'unwilling'.


You leave that to US to decide. For now, you just worry on how to deal with the many options we have.


A nearly useless option.


How 'big' is that gap for US? Keep in mind that Iran have been under satellite surveillance, and it is not as if the US do not have our own air defense system.

Precisely because we do have our own air defense system and that we actually gone to combat against an enemy's air defense system, we do have a pretty good idea of the range each of your air defense unit can go. From that, it is a matter of math to calculate how to destroy each, whether that destruction comes from bombs or cruise missiles. What I said are simplified, the details no one knows. But Iran is going up against an opponent that proven combat experience in terms of wielding technologies and tactics that no one has. An analogy is that if you know about IR as a concept but do not have a practical application of IR sensor, you cannot fight an opponent who does have practical applications of IR sensor and successfully used it in warfare. Now, I expect you to focus in on the IR aspect and point out how Iran is capable of producing IR sensors, etc...etc..., but that would mean you missed the point of the analogy.

If you are a religious person and believe the gods do inject themselves into the affairs of humans, you better pray that there will not be a shooting fight between Iran and US. I understand that you are as much nationalistic as I am, you for Iran and I for US, but am talking objectively here -- Iran WILL lose that fight.

"If you are a religious person and believe the gods do inject themselves into the affairs of humans, you better pray that there will not be a shooting fight between Iran and US. I understand that you are as much nationalistic as I am, you for Iran and I for US, but am talking objectively here -- Iran WILL lose that fight."

Subjective not objective but you're entitled to your own realities.

 

[PeeD]

Iraq in 1991 and Iraq in 2003, people always forget the differences and how the US didn't enter Iraq's cities in 1991

PR and outside image is a main tool Americans use. Indeed they knew that taking on 1991 Iraq would be too costly for them. Their strategy was a show, in which they attacked Saddams "expedition" forces 91, had a 12 year long hit and run warfare and embargo to break them down that finally lead to the 2003 shock invasion (of a 13 year long hungered down opponent).
This is how they operate, they are not able to sustain higher losses.

However every child today just remembers U.S superiority over the huge Iraqi war machine, not those details... (also not U.S side confirmed 50+ coalition aircraft losses)

As a forum member just said recently: The U.S has never fought a enemy with long range weapons that can strike back. Their backbone is their air power which needs to operate within 1000-2000km to the enemy to evolve its massive firepower.

And just one fact for the talk made here in this thread: All wars the U.S fought had its opponent been equipped with weapons at least a decade older in design and export rated (Vietnam). Or 20 years (Iraq 91) or even 30 years (Serbia, Iraq 2003)

They select the opponents and look how they can handle them. Irans weapons are neither export rated/compromised nor have a 2-3 generations gap.

The day the U.S could think about attacking Iran would be when save operations from air airbases and carriers is guaranteed and they are ready to accept +25% losses of airpower assets like in WWII. Neither of the two is possible or acceptable for 2019 America.

 

[Blue In Green]

PR and outside image is a main tool Americans use. Indeed they knew that taking on 1991 Iraq would be too costly for them. Their strategy was a show, in which they attacked Saddams "expedition" forces 91, had a 12 year long hit and run warfare and embargo to break them down that finally lead to the 2003 shock invasion (of a 13 year long hungered down opponent).
This is how they operate, they are not able to sustain higher losses.

However every child today just remembers U.S superiority over the huge Iraqi war machine, not those details... (also not U.S side confirmed 50+ coalition aircraft losses)

As a forum member just said recently: The U.S has never fought a enemy with long range weapons that can strike back. Their backbone is their air power which needs to operate within 1000-2000km to the enemy to evolve its massive firepower.

And just one fact for the talk made here in this thread: All wars the U.S fought had its opponent been equipped with weapons at least a decade older in design and export rated (Vietnam). Or 20 years (Iraq 91) or even 30 years (Serbia, Iraq 2003)

They select the opponents and look how they can handle them. Irans weapons are neither export rated/compromised nor have a 1, 2, 3 generations gap.

The day the U.S could think about attacking Iran would be when save operations from air airbases and carriers is guaranteed and they are ready to accept +25% losses of airpower assets like in WWII. Neither of the two is possible or acceptable fro 2019 America.

So all this recent American saber-rattling is just PR?