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Iraq's war against IS terrorism | Updates and Discussions

@TheCamelGuy how many foreign fighters/ISIS were involved in Mosul take over last year?. Are they still there or how iraqi army will separate foreigners,terrorist from peace loving civilians ?

You mean 3 years ago Mosul take over? 2014.

Foreign terrorists are usually the hardcore fighters on the lower level, they know they cannot blend in with the populace so they fight till death or blow themselves up. They're also motivated by non-financial factors whereas many local recruits can be lured in for money. The Chechen terrorists turned out to be the toughest enemy somehow, that showed in Baiji and the Baiji oil refinery, whilst ISOF managed to repel them for over a year they were a very hard opponent.

Foreigners can be spotted out from locals quite easily based on language, dialect, knowledge, name etc. It's spotting local terrorists from local civillians which is the real issue, though that is done by having locals from the neighborhoods speak up after an area is liberated.
 
You mean 3 years ago Mosul take over? 2014.

Foreign terrorists are usually the hardcore fighters on the lower level, they know they cannot blend in with the populace so they fight till death or blow themselves up. They're also motivated by non-financial factors whereas many local recruits can be lured in for money. The Chechen terrorists turned out to be the toughest enemy somehow, that showed in Baiji and the Baiji oil refinery, whilst ISOF managed to repel them for over a year they were a very hard opponent.

Foreigners can be spotted out from locals quite easily based on language, dialect, knowledge, name etc. It's spotting local terrorists from local civillians which is the real issue, though that is done by having locals from the neighborhoods speak up after an area is liberated.
How chechen been exported inside Iraq and how all the way from Chechnia they end up in deserts of Iraq ?
 
How chechen been exported inside Iraq and how all the way from Chechnia they end up in deserts of Iraq ?

Turkish-Syrian border was the international entry point for IS jihadists. Before that, Syrian gov was involved with foreign fighter transfer into Iraq before their internal war started.
 
Turkish-Syrian border was the international entry point for IS jihadists. Before that, Syrian gov was involved with foreign fighter transfer into Iraq before their internal war started.
Long ago I read somewhere , actual reason of Russian involvement in the beginning of Syria conflict was Chechen IS. Russian spy agency been tracking them down and watch there pattern of reaching ME.
 
The question is what happens next day. The capture of Mosul(which is completely destroyed)is a big political victory but now what? The areas of Sunni Arabs(one third of Iraq) is a complete mess with various organizations roaming and no political control. Just because you have set up a couple of bases in cities like Ramadi doesnt mean you control the city. Meanwhile Kurds will hold a referendum and its quite possible they will take with them vital cities like Kirkuk
 
You mean 3 years ago Mosul take over? 2014.

Foreign terrorists are usually the hardcore fighters on the lower level, they know they cannot blend in with the populace so they fight till death or blow themselves up. They're also motivated by non-financial factors whereas many local recruits can be lured in for money. The Chechen terrorists turned out to be the toughest enemy somehow, that showed in Baiji and the Baiji oil refinery, whilst ISOF managed to repel them for over a year they were a very hard opponent.

Foreigners can be spotted out from locals quite easily based on language, dialect, knowledge, name etc. It's spotting local terrorists from local civillians which is the real issue, though that is done by having locals from the neighborhoods speak up after an area is liberated.
True!!
Here in Pakistan war against terrorists at Afghan border the toughest Son of B****** are the Uzbek tajik chechan based terrorists. Many of my Friends participating in Operations affirm this that local Pashtuun and Punjabi fighters lay arms easily but these Wheat bags(A Slang they use used for white skinned Uzbek tajik Chechan terrorists) are tough as hell well trained and fight till death.
 
An estimated 10.000 civilians have perished during the almost 9 month long "Battle of Mosul". Much of the city is completely destroyed. Over 1 million displaced locals. It is a very heavy victory.

However unfortunately I see the same mistakes being committed once again like ever since 2003. Arbitrary summary executions, undoubtedly 100's of innocents being killed and accused of being ISIS members etc. Lot's of footage and eye witness accounts (from objective Western and non-Western journalists on the ground) confirm this. Even footage. Just today I watched the summary execution of men (no proof of them being ISIS) that were clearly tortured before they were thrown of a building and afterwards shot at.

What's worse, what can objectively be considered as sectarian terrorist groups (many of their current leaders are war criminals) such as certain Shia militias sponsored by a certain country, are actively fueling the sectarianism and getting away with it. That will never be accepted by any Iraqi Sunni Arab (nationalist, Islamist, Atheist etc.) on the short or long run. Hence the same mistakes being committed. For instance it is tragicomical and intolerable that not only a traitor, like Hadi al-Amiri, who fought against his own country and people on the side of the Mullah's, later leader of sectarian Shia terrorist groups during the previous civil war, is a free man walking and a previous minister! It is asking for trouble. There are tons of such personalities. This is not the fault of Al-Abadi who has done a good job overall against hard odds but those that pull the strings behind the curtains.

It is amazing how cheap the blood of Sunnis in Iraq and Syria have become. It is even more "amazing" to see humans and people on the ground committing the same mistakes time and time again.

The invasion of 2003 was the final nail in the coffin I am afraid. I always tried to be hopelessly positive (despite my open contempt for Al-Maliki, Hadi al-Amiri and their likes), at times not wanting to see the reality in the eyes, but I am afraid that the past 3-4 years in Iraq, has not already intensified and strengthened the already significant communal/regional/religious/ethnic divides in Iraq but given fertilizer to a possible successor group of ISIS. The vicious circle thus continues.

@TheCamelGuy how many foreign fighters/ISIS were involved in Mosul take over last year?. Are they still there or how iraqi army will separate foreigners,terrorist from peace loving civilians ?

Most of the fighting force of ISIS is local in both Iraq and Syria. As are the entire leaderships. Confirmed ages ago. As are most of the suicide bombers actually.

An entire report was published about this some time ago.

You can read it here below:

https://icct.nl/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/ICCT-Winter-War-by-Suicide-Feb2017.pdf

That myth needs to die once and for all.

Vast majority. Non-Arab ISIS fighters are those that find it the most difficult to blend into the local populace naturally. Most foreign Arab fighters in either Syria or Iraq have picked up the dialects. For instance it is not very difficult for a person from KSA, Palestine or Jordan to pick up a local dialect or vice versa after a few months.
 
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Even footage. Just today I watched the summary execution of men (no proof of them being ISIS) that were clearly tortured before they were thrown of a building and afterwards shot at.

People who assume that a video should contain proof for certain people to be deemed part of a group or be judged guilty are looking at it the wrong way. A video presents a tiny part of the information that has been gathered from the situation and the men seen in the video. The soldiers present there know well, together with locals whom are IS and whom are not. PMU does not operate inside Mosul either. The soldiers have nothing to gain from executing random civillians, if they decided to execute them then they must be linked to the enemy, which is the right method.

The other method which would be deemed civil has been tried before. The result was terrorist leaders were locked up in Camp Bucca which became their HQ. Besides, Egypt has executed IS elements in Sinai, Turkey has been seen executing PKK elements and the list goes on. Nothing wrong with it.

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The army has transformed into an effective fighting force compared to 2014, they must be allowed to conduct their operations effectively without political nonsense. The US knows this as well and has ignored the recent report about the ERU (emergency response division), whilst their method might be wrong according to international law they target terrorists and are doing the job well. That's the only way to win the war.
 
People who assume that a video should contain proof for certain people to be deemed part of a group or be judged guilty are looking at it the wrong way. A video presents a tiny part of the information that has been gathered from the situation and the men seen in the video. The soldiers present there know well, together with locals whom are IS and whom are not. PMU does not operate inside Mosul either. The soldiers have nothing to gain from executing random civillians, if they decided to execute them then they must be linked to the enemy, which is the right method.

The other method which would be deemed civil has been tried before. The result was terrorist leaders were locked up in Camp Bucca which became their HQ. Besides, Egypt has executed IS elements in Sinai, Turkey has been seen executing PKK elements and the list goes on. Nothing wrong with it.

--

The army has transformed into an effective fighting force compared to 2014, they must be allowed to conduct their operations effectively without political nonsense. The US knows this as well and has ignored the recent report about the ERU (emergency response division), whilst their method might be wrong according to international law they target terrorists and are doing the job well. That's the only way to win the war.

10.000 civilians have died in less than 9 months of fighting. That's more than 1000 each month. That's not a small number. That's what has died in all of Yemen (similar population as Iraq) in the past 2.5 years of civil war.

Nobody is expecting that ISIS members are to be tried in a court of law. What is counterproductive (as confirmed by far too many videos) is the behavior of certain Shia militias and their dealings with suspects. Nobody is going to believe that innocents have not been killed in this process. Obviously such a policy is counterproductive. As is the involvement of militias led by people who have committed war crimes during the civil war. Hence the same mistakes being committed once again.

Winning the military war against an opponent such as ISIS or similar groups is no challenge for an entire military, government and nation the size of Iraq. What is the real challenge is reconciliation on a political, religious, ethnic and social level.

It is worrying when you have so many Iraqis, not even based in Iraq itself, calling for the destruction of Mosul and the expulsion of Iraqi Sunni Arabs. We even have one such member on this forum with such a logic. Very "nationalistic". His likes would prefer an foreigner, in particular an Iranian Shia from some village in Southern Khorasan almost 2500 km away from Iraq, over an countrymen that is a Sunni despite that countryman living in the same city, province, belonging to the same clan/tribe etc.

Anyway what is your opinion about the likes of Hadi Al-Amiri? Do you as a nationalist like seeing such traitors (objectively speaking) have so much influence?
 
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10.000 civilians have died in less than 9 months of fighting. That's more than 1000 each month. That's not a small number. That's what has died in all of Yemen (similar population as Iraq) in the past 2.5 years of civil war.

Nobody is expecting that ISIS members are to be tried in a court of law. What is counterproductive (as confirmed by far too many videos) is the behavior of certain Shia militias and their dealings with suspects. Nobody is going to believe that innocents have not been killed in this process. Obviously such a policy is counterproductive. As is the involvement of militias led by people who have committed war crimes during the civil war. Hence the same mistakes being committed once again.

Winning the military war against an opponent such as ISIS or similar groups is no challenge for an entire military, government and nation the size of Iraq. What is the real challenge is reconciliation on a political, religious, ethnic and social level.

It is worrying when you have so many Iraqis, not even based in Iraq itself, calling for the destruction of Mosul and the expulsion of Iraqi Sunni Arabs. We even have one such member on this forum with such a logic. Very "nationalistic". His likes would prefer an foreigner, in particular an Iranian Shia from some village in Southern Khorasan almost 2500 km away from Iraq, over an countrymen that is a Sunni despite that countryman making living in the same city, province, belonging to the same clan/tribe etc.

There cannot be a complete professional fighting force, professional meaning behavior wise especially when it comes to keeping to intl. laws and treatment of captives given that there is not one centralized army operating but multiple units. To add to that, many fighters are uneducated and have no clue how their behavior impacts this war on the different levels. Though that's not just limited to our region, some American troops made similar mistakes. Though ISF has been growing well in the right direction, when it comes to the region they've been operating in a clean way.

Don't know where the 10K number is from, I'd blame IS for most of that.

Anyway what is your opinion about the likes of Hadi Al-Amiri? Do you as a nationalist like seeing such traitors (objectively speaking) have so much influence?
I believe in supporting the state/nation whichever side it is that rules, whether it was Saddam's regime or Abadi's administration. Ameri puts his political/religious/party first, different belief. Different motivation, same current goal when it comes to the ongoing war. However, I don't influence it. What will happen is that US military will stay in Iraq and then some side (pro US camp or pro Iran camp) will politically grow, either way haven't been there and its riddled with corruption, I can't integrate well there either way to start with so I might be wrong.
 
There cannot be a complete professional fighting force, professional meaning behavior wise especially when it comes to keeping to intl. laws and treatment of captives given that there is not one centralized army operating but multiple units. To add to that, many fighters are uneducated and have no clue how their behavior impacts this war on the different levels. Though that's not just limited to our region, some American troops made similar mistakes. Though ISF has been growing well in the right direction, when it comes to the region they've been operating in a clean way.

Don't know where the 10K number is from, I'd blame IS for most of that.


I believe in supporting the state/nation whichever side it is that rules, whether it was Saddam's regime or Abadi's administration. Ameri puts his political/religious/party first, different belief. Different motivation, same current goal when it comes to the ongoing war. However, I don't influence it. What will happen is that US military will stay in Iraq and then some side (pro US camp or pro Iran camp) will politically grow, either way haven't been there and its riddled with corruption, I can't integrate well there either way to start with so I might be wrong.

I am not worried about whether actual ISIS members are killed on the spot. That's not going to make me sleep bad at night. What I am saying is that I have seen reports and videos that give me reason to worry. I look at this in a much larger perspective and not just the battle itself. It was already clear from the second that ISIS gained control of Mosul that this control would be temporarily.

I am worried about whether mistakes committed by such forces will be counterproductive in terms of the real battle in Iraq which is centered around the political, social, religious (sectarian) and ethnic disagreements and power struggles. I am worried that this vicious cycle of violence might not end in our lifetime which would be a catastrophe not only for Iraq but the entire region.

However torturing suspected ISIS members and afterwards throwing them off roofs to shot at them from above after they landed, is not really what I associate with the Iraqi army. Here experienced officers should be clear and swift. Imagine what such videos can do if they reach youngsters, teenagers, children etc. from Mosul and other Iraqi Sunni Arab areas of Iraq. Such videos, if we assume that those people were ISIS members, can be used as a weapon to point out that the Iraqi army is no different from ISIS in their methods. It is a dangerous path.

ISIS has to be blamed for the destruction of Mosul but the leadership should closely study why this occurred (the underlying reasons - not talking about the military failure) and not commit such mistakes and learn from them.

Basically I am worried that an eventual military win over ISIS will lead to events that led before the actual rise of ISIS under Al-Maliki. This is where the Iraqi society needs to react even if that means criticizing certain conducts of the military, Shia militias or politicians.

For instance I find it worrying that people even have such ideas of wanting to destroy a city this big in their own country completely. Or that the mistrust is so big that they are of such an opinion.

Why do I dislike and in fact find persons such as Hadi al-Amiri counterproductive in this fight (not only limited to the military context)? Because he is seen by most Iraqi Sunni Arabs as what I described. Al-Abadi, once he gets more power and shows his worth over a longer time, will probably notice this problem and act accordingly by choosing someone with a better record.

This boils down to unity within the country. That should be above everything on the long run. Security will come naturally once that happens. Al-Abadi has done well and overall the work by the military has been above average and it will only improve with time.

However I used to warn about such issues almost 10 years ago and I was called crazy for speaking out against certain Al-Maliki policies and when I said that the few remnants of Al-Qaeda in Iraq might dwarf into something new one day.

I said it countless of times but had the US administration handled the regime change and transition differently back in 2003, they would probably not have faced such a significant resistance and AQI and later ISIS would not have been as powerful as they were.

Anyway it is easy to talk about the past. The key is the future and I only wrote that post because I found that video counterproductive and it disappointed me. Previously I had ignored supposed reports of such incidents but I took a look and I was left with worrying a bit.

Anyway I am of the same opinion in Yemen whenever the Arab coalition kills civilians as it is counterproductive. Luckily I have not seen more than 1-2 videos of Houthi prisoners being treated badly. I know that Houthis/Saleh are not ISIS and I am not comparing them I am just saying that this culture of revenge in the Arab world is often counterproductive. Sometimes we need to leave the pride and ego a bit.

Another thing, after the last areas of Iraq are freed from ISIS (Western Anbar and areas in Salah ad-Din and Kirkuk province) there is also the question of a certain land-grabbing group of people which is again worrying as Iraq should not waste lives, money and time on wars and conflicts constantly. There have been enough of this. Focus should be on economy, education, environment, infrastructure and what matters in peaceful societies. Hopefully this can happen as quickly as possible. A bit of nationalism rather than religious allegiance would also be very positive.

Example:


Such videos make me very happy. Nationals calling for the destruction of their own blood, makes me sad. Hope that you understand.
 
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I am not worried about whether actual ISIS members are killed on the spot. That's not going to make me sleep bad at night. What I am saying is that I have seen reports and videos that give me reason to worry. I look at this in a much larger perspective and not just the battle itself. It was already clear from the second that ISIS gained control of Mosul that this control would be temporarily.

I am worried about whether mistakes committed by such forces will be counterproductive in terms of the real battle in Iraq which is centered around the political, social, religious (sectarian) and ethnic disagreements and power struggles. I am worried that this vicious cycle of violence might not end in our lifetime which would be a catastrophe not only for Iraq but the entire region.

However torturing suspected ISIS members and afterwards throwing them off roofs to shot at them from above after they landed, is not really what I associate with the Iraqi army. Here experienced officers should be clear and swift. Imagine what such videos can do if they reach youngsters, teenagers, children etc. from Mosul and other Iraqi Sunni Arab areas of Iraq. Such videos, if we assume that those people were ISIS members, can be used as a weapon to point out that the Iraqi army is no different from ISIS in their methods. It is a dangerous path.

ISIS has to be blamed for the destruction of Mosul but the leadership should closely study why this occurred (the underlying reasons - not talking about the military failure) and not commit such mistakes and learn from them.

Basically I am worried that an eventual military win over ISIS will lead to events that led before the actual rise of ISIS under Al-Maliki. This is where the Iraqi society needs to react even if that means criticizing certain conducts of the military, Shia militias or politicians.

For instance I find it worrying that people even have such ideas of wanting to destroy a city this big in their own country completely. Or that the mistrust is so big that they are of such an opinion.

Why do I dislike and in fact find persons such as Hadi al-Amiri counterproductive in this fight (not only limited to the military context)? Because he is seen by most Iraqi Sunni Arabs as what I described. Al-Abadi, once he gets more power and shows his worth over a longer time, will probably notice this problem and act accordingly by choosing someone with a better record.

This boils down to unity within the country. That should be above everything on the long run. Security will come naturally once that happens. Al-Abadi has done well and overall the work by the military has been above average and it will only improve with time.

However I used to warn about such issues almost 10 years ago and I was called crazy for speaking out against certain Al-Maliki policies and when I said that the few remnants of Al-Qaeda in Iraq might dwarf into something new one day.

I said it countless of times but had the US administration handled the regime change and transition differently back in 2003, they would probably not have faced such a significant resistance and AQI and later ISIS would not have been as powerful as they were.

Anyway it is easy to talk about the past. The key is the future and I only wrote that post because I found that video counterproductive and it disappointed me. Previously I had ignored supposed reports of such incidents but I took a look and I was left with worrying a bit.

Anyway I am of the same opinion in Yemen whenever the Arab coalition kills civilians as it is counterproductive. Luckily I have not seen more than 1-2 videos of Houthi prisoners being treated badly. I know that Houthis/Saleh are not ISIS and I am not comparing them I am just saying that this culture of revenge in the Arab world is often counterproductive. Sometimes we need to leave the pride and ego a bit.

Another thing, after the last areas of Iraq are freed from ISIS (Western Anbar and areas in Salah ad-Din and Kirkuk province) there is also the question of a certain land-grabbing group of people which is again worrying as Iraq should not waste lives, money and time on wars and conflicts constantly. There have been enough of this. Focus should be on economy, education, environment, infrastructure and what matters in peaceful societies. Hopefully this can happen as quickly as possible. A bit of nationalism rather than religious allegiance would also be very positive.

Such videos make me very happy. Nationals calling for the destruction of their own blood, makes me sad. Hope that you understand.

We must draw differences between such policies, when speaking of Maliki vs Abadi policies we are talking about the strategic level. The executions that happen on a small scale are operational level and will not be reason for IS support given that they specifically target the enemy, not random civillians as many IS apologists try to tell. The ERU unit which recently was shown in a documentary torturing/executing IS elements is lead by a Sunni, I think you saw the video. All of this is no issue, the military is closely aligned to the US military and they will be working together for the next decade to come. They've also grown and will continue to grow under partial supervision of the US, in one way this safeguards them from the political corruption given that there's a powerful external force keeping overwatch on the development.

That cannot be said for all other branches of the system, corruption I would like to point out remains very high. The state is weak, I don't think there was much corruption under Saddam. As for the land grabbing Kurds, we agree on this. Nationalism wise, I unfortunately don't find too many in Iraq who share my belief; my belief was common in the 80's and early 90's, then religion made its entry into people's ideology.

As you said, it seems to be going well on the military level which is what i'm most interested in. I'm aware that it requires a combined effort on all fronts to achieve lasting victory and progression of the country. But what can you do when your top leaders are trash?

One should take a look at Hoshyar Zebari's tweets on Twitter, he was a minister in Iraq for over 10 years or something? You can clearly see his pro Kurd, Iraq hatred in his tweets. Such trash should be dealt with as during the old days. Abadi has done good but remains a weak leader, I know that there's a danger in wanting a strong leader given that they often turn out to be dictators.

 
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