Iraqi militia receives Toofan MRAP vehicles from Iran

[QWECXZ]

I take the adult position and call them our Iraqi allies. You call them millitia and then try to explain the word militia to your target audience, Try to take back it's meaning.

I will simply tell them that the US has active militia groups like Oath Keepers inside its country. And then I will provide proof of that. And then I will tell them the correct definition of a militia. They won't be able to argue with me.

You can call them our Iraqi allies, but your opponents will continue to call them Iran-backed militia. What would be your move at that point? Arguing with them that they are not a militia? Guess what? They are. At that point, your argument will boil down to terminological preferences. But my approach will immediately expose their hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[zartosht]

So, if I understand you correctly, the US media define what words mean from now on?

So, if the US media call General Soleimani a terrorist, we should accept that because the US media say that?

Your argument is ridiculous to say the least. The US media can condemn Iran's use of militias, but that doesn't mean that we should accept their twisted definition of militia. If anything, we should fight back and let people know the actual definition of the word.

And in case you missed to understand, when the US media call them "Shiite militia", they are emphasizing the Shiite part, not the militia part. Why? Because they want to feed sectarian hatred in the region.

you just answered your own question

"if the us media called Soleimani a terrorist"

that's exactly the point. Dictionary definitions are ambiguous sometimes and a terrorist label can easily be used to define virtually any armed non-official state army. or even state armies..

what Im asking you is not to repeat American propaganda language on Iranian forces and allies. how is that controversial?

do you also agree that Hezbollah and IRGC are terrorist organizations? the US media routinely describes them as such. you calling "shia militias" by their US media propaganda name, is the same as calling the IRGC and Hezbollah "terrorists"

 

[Cthulhu]

I will simply tell them that the US has active militia groups like Oath Keepers inside its country. And then I will provide proof of that. And then I will tell them the correct definition of a militia. They won't be able to argue with me.

You can call them our Iraqi allies, but your opponents will continue to call them Iran-backed militia. What would be your move at that point? Arguing with them that they are not a militia? Guess what? They are. At that point, your argument will boil down to terminological preferences. But my approach will immediately expose their hypocrisy and double standards.

Now you are arguing for the sake of arguing, The point is not hard to understand, when our opponents call PMU or Hezbollah or .... as "Iran backed militia", We shouldn't call them this, We call the our allies or our partners like this:

Our Kurdish Allies Shamefully Abandoned - WSJ

They will continue to call them Iran-backed militia, But we ourselves shouldn't.

 

[QWECXZ]

you just answered your own question

"if the us media called Soleimani a terrorist"

that's exactly the point. Dictionary definitions are ambiguous sometimes and a terrorist label can easily be used to define virtually any armed non-official state army. or even state armies..

what Im asking you is not to repeat American propaganda language on Iranian forces and allies. how is that controversial?

do you also agree that Hezbollah and IRGC are terrorist organizations? the US media routinely describes them as such. you calling "shia militias" by their US media propaganda name, is the same as calling the IRGC and Hezbollah "terrorists"

Let me explain again. What the US media say is completely irrelevant to what the truth is. Hence, their attempt at giving a new definition to the word militia when it comes to Iranian-backed groups in the region should not affect our behavior or define how we use that term.

Meanwhile, see other posts. The US has active militia groups inside its own country. So, quite contrary to what you claim, the word militia does necessarily mean something bad.

Now you are arguing for the sake of arguing, The point is not hard to understand, when our opponents call PMU or Hezbollah or .... as "Iran backed militia", We shouldn't call them this, We call the our allies or our partners like this:

Our Kurdish Allies Shamefully Abandoned - WSJ

They will continue to call them Iran-backed militia, But we ourselves shouldn't.

No, I am giving you a better approach that exposes the US hypocrisy and double standards. And it's funny that you can't see it. You can call PMU whatever you want, that doesn't prevent people from calling them what they are. If militia groups are bad, why are there militia groups in the US?

I will continue to call PMU an Iranian-backed militia group proudly because that's exactly what they are and there is nothing to be ashamed of.

As for the US media never calling Kurdish groups "militia", here's an article from New York Times:

Among them were several Kurdish militias, the strongest of which was the People’s Protection Units, known by its Kurdish initials, the Y.P.G.

How did this Kurdish militia become an American ally?
When the international coalition, led by the United States, sought local partners to contain the militants, they saw the Kurdish militia as the safest option.

 

[Dariush the Great]

i think hezbollah is some kind of semi militia

 

[mangekyo]

Militia or not. The word Shia should not be put in front of militia. Is the US military a Catholic or Protestant military? Do we say the the Shia IRGC, is our army a Shia army? Do we say the Iranian Shia Army, the Iranian Shia Air Force? Etc.. No. So why say Shia militant group? If a sunni Arab, Kurd, Turkmen, Atheist or whatever wants to join PMU to protect his country, does that make him a Shia militant?

Why are terrorist of Middle Eastern or North African heritage always labeled as Islamist terrorist while white terrorists are just labeled as murderers, mentally ill or something? Have you ever heard media say Christian, Jewish, or Atheist terrorist?

They are trying to divide us, dont let them fool you.

 

[Metal 0-1]

So now even Iraq has better MRAP's than Pakistan

We have Navistar Maxxpro around 350 and

Buffalo around 20.

But they are used for annual 23rd March Parade...
Couple of Pakistani manufacturers also produce nice Armored vehicles.

 

[BATMAN]

We have Navistar Maxxpro around 350 and

Buffalo around 20.

But they are used for annual 23rd March Parade...
Couple of Pakistani manufacturers also produce nice Armored vehicles.

Are those as well given to militias fighting for Iran?

 

[Dariush the Great]

Fairy tales....

ask any iranian in iran. only fake artificial countries depend on religion to make up their IDless origins.

 

[HAIDER]

New batch

Do you really need to create a divided headline. or you can call it Iraqi militia .. Don't propagate sectarianism...its harm in Islam. Thank you

 

[Falcon29]

There's no purpose for these militias besides consolidating Iran's interests in Iraq. They should not be praised by people of forum.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Do you really need to create a divided headline. or you can call it Iraqi militia .. Don't propagate sectarianism...its harm in Islam. Thank you

True, however we should also recognise facts. Shia groups have been Iran's biggest supporter in Iraq against the despotic Sunni led baathist regime of Saddam and then after his fall they have also proven to be Iran's biggest allies in Iraq against Sunni remnants of the Saddam regime who later flight a sectarian war against the new US backed Shia led regime in Iraq. This resentment still goes in some ways until today. Seems both sides still have some lingering greviances against the other. It's for this reason many Sunnis joined ISIS in the first place to fight against the regime in Baghdad which they don't think is legitimate or serve their interests . Iraq central government and its military are weak , so Iranian backed militias have propped up to fill the void and they have grown so powerful that they are increasingly being viewed as a state within a state. Iran has been able to make Iraq like Lebanon where their Hezbollah arm is a quasi state within the state in Lebanon, again due to the weakness of the Lebanese state and military . So Lebanese government/army has no choice than to live with them and sometimes even be subservient to this group given their military and ideological power. Iraq will be the same as well, with Iraqi Shia led militias growing in military and political power. They are already indispensable in Iraq at the moment and are already so powerful that they can even contest with the state itself if push comes to shove. So Iraq juathjust like Lebanon before, has also started to learn to live with this new reality.

So it's a complicated one as well.

 

[Falcon29]

Do you really need to create a divided headline. or you can call it Iraqi militia .. Don't propagate sectarianism...its harm in Islam. Thank you

Whatever the title was, these militias deserve no praise. Iraq has a functioning army and security force, these militias serve to consolidate Iran's interests in Iraq. In a sensible environment they'd hand their arms over to the state and remain political parties instead.

Do you really need to create a divided headline. or you can call it Iraqi militia .. Don't propagate sectarianism...its harm in Islam. Thank you

You need to give us some reason to believe that you're an exceptional Muslim to lecture us on what is forbidden in Islam or not. You disregard Islam when it comes to a lot of your political stances so you shouldn't be taken seriously, sorry to say so.

Btw, he's a pro-Iranian fella.

 

[hussainb72]

There's no purpose for these militias besides consolidating Iran's interests in Iraq. They should not be praised by people of forum.

Whatever the title was, these militias deserve no praise. Iraq has a functioning army and security force, these militias serve to consolidate Iran's interests in Iraq. In a sensible environment they'd hand their arms over to the state and remain political parties instead.



You need to give us some reason to believe that you're an exceptional Muslim to lecture us on what is forbidden in Islam or not. You disregard Islam when it comes to a lot of your political stances so you shouldn't be taken seriously, sorry to say so.

Btw, he's a pro-Iranian fella.

First of all, you are known for trolling here. 2nd is that the iraqi PMU is an official part of the iraqi army and is supported and funded by them. Iran used to fund them and equip them directly, but now they deal with the iraqi military to send them equipments. And finally being sunni or Shia doesnt really matter. They all stood together in iraq and syria against the isis and wahabis to defend their countries.

 

[Falcon29]

First of all, you are known for trolling here. 2nd is that the iraqi PMU is an official part of the iraqi army and is supported and funded by them. Iran used to fund them and equip them directly, but now they deal with the iraqi military to send them equipments. And finally being sunni or Shia doesnt really matter. They all stood together in iraq and syria against the isis and wahabis to defend their countries.

You're right, Sunni or Shia don't matter, so you need to learn from your own advice as you are one brought up the sects. Iraqi army is majority Shia and I support them as legitimate security authority of Iraq. There's no reason why these non state militias need to exist. They should join Iraqi army if they have Iraq's interests at heart.

Instead they choose to be seperate entity that challenges Iraqi army much of the time. So I'm waiting for you to give me one reason why they need to exist separately from Iraqi army.

Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia , Morocco , Kuwait , Qatar all have dealt with ISIS threat without need of non state militias. It can be the same for Iraq too.

So I don't understand your motivations in all of this. Bottom line, these militias should not be praised by forum audience as they serve purpose of securing foreign nations interests.